Building a new system, some newbie questions (Long)

[Sub51]

I would really appreciate if someone could help me with a few things before I go out and buy my stuff. Also, please please only people who know what they're talking about and have some experience.
First on the list, Radeon 9700 Pro.
Take a look here:
http://www.newegg.com/

Under video cards go to ATI and then choose the 9700 Pro in the drop down list (I can't give you a direct link it always goes back to the main site).

There are three different 9700 Pro cards,

SAPPHIRE RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR TV/DVI 8X AGP OEM RADEON? $322.00

ATI RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB TV/DVI 8X AGP RETAILRADEON? 9700 PRO $347.00

Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL $362.00

1) What's the difference and which one would I buy?

2) Then, who makes good Athlon XP motherboards?

ABIT USA
ALBATRON USA
AOPEN
ASUS
BIOSTAR
CHAINTECH-EXCEL, INC.
ECS
EPOX
GIGA BYTE
IWILL
LEADTEK
MSI
SHUTTLE
SOLTEK
SOYO
TYAN

If you find a nice one on the site tell me, it should be the fastest but not very expensive and have AGPx8 (for the Radeon 9700 Pro right?), with DDR Ram support. The numbers mean nothing to me. Socket A? D? Also, I would prefer a mobo with onboard sound.

3) Are there any good ones out there that have that?

4) On a side note, which DDR Ram manufacturer do you recommend?

Also, about my monitor. For some reason it gets very hard on the eyes in 1280*1024. Flickering is extreme.

5) How can you fix that? The refresh rate can only be set to 60 mz in that resolution, maybe that is the reason? Do I need a new monitor for such resolutions?

Now, I don't really need a new CD Rom drive, so pretty much all that is left

6) is my case. Again, what do you recommend. I'm asking because a lot of them should come with a power supply and I heard a lot of them tend to burn-a-lot.

7) You need a cooler for the CPU also, does this come with the case as well?

8) I think I'm just fine with any IBM hard drive right?

Any help is really appreciated.

 

[microAmp]

2) Then, who makes good Athlon XP motherboards?

I like EPoX, ASUS is another favorite of mine.

4) On a side note, which DDR Ram manufacturer do you recommend?

I like Crucial and many others here do.

7) You need a cooler for the CPU also, does this come with the case as well?

The CPU heatsink/fan doesn't come with a case. If you buy a Retail CPU it'll come with one, if you buy an OEM CPU, you'll have to buy one.

 

[Maggotry]

There are three different 9700 Pro cards,

SAPPHIRE RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR TV/DVI 8X AGP OEM RADEON? $322.00

ATI RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB TV/DVI 8X AGP RETAILRADEON? 9700 PRO $347.00

Gigabyte GV-R9700PRO RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB DDR 8X AGP RETAIL $362.00

1) What's the difference and which one would I buy?

I have no first hand experience, but I've read here in these forums that "powered by ATI" video cards do not have good 2D compared to the "built by ATI" cards. For that reason, I'd go with a true ATI, not a 3rd party card.

2) Then, who makes good Athlon XP motherboards?

ABIT, ASUS, MSI, SOYO - My personal favorites

4) On a side note, which DDR Ram manufacturer do you recommend?

Crucial, Corsair, Samsung, Mushkin - The only brands I trust.

5) The refresh rate can only be set to 60Hz in that resolution, maybe that is the reason? Do I need a new monitor for such resolutions?

60Hz would drive me insane very quickly. If that's all the monitor will support (check the manual), then your choices are "deal with it" or "buy a new monitor".

6)What do you recommend. I'm asking because a lot of them should come with a power supply and I heard a lot of them tend to burn-a-lot.

Hard to go wrong with an Antec case/psu combo.

8) I think I'm just fine with any IBM hard drive right?

IBM HD's are thoroughly NOT recommended here on these forums! 🙂
However, I've had 2 IBM 75GXP's running 24/7 for a 1.5 years with no problems. Recently most HD manufacturers have reduced their warranties from 3 years to 1 year ( 🙁 ) so warranty doesn't really seem to be a selling point anymore. I'd recommend Seagate, Western Digital, or Maxtor, though.

Edit: And welcome to AnandTech. 🙂

 

[Legendary]

If it were me, I'd go true ATI, a Soyo board, Crucial or Mushkin RAM. Your video card, not only your monitor affects maximum refresh. Get an enermax PS (350W is good enough). Get yourself a good HSF and an OEM processor to make sure your processor stays cool (retail processors are not TOO bad, but not too good either.) I wholeheartedly recommend Western Digital hard drives.
Good luck.

 

[Maggotry]

Originally posted by: Legendary
Your video card, not only your monitor affects maximum refresh.

Sure does. Sub51, if you're getting a 9700, then running at 85Hz at 1280x1024 will not be a problem for the card, but you still need to check the monitor specs to see if it can handle that. Legendary is absolutely right though - your CURRENT bottleneck could very well be your video card, not the monitor.

 

[Sub51]

Which mobo do you think I should get:

//
Asus A7V266-E KT266A Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard with Raid and Sound - Retail
3 DDR 184Pin DIMM Slot, 1 AGP, 5 PCI, 1 ACR, 4 Ultra DMA/100 IDE Port (2 for RAID), C-Media-CMI-8738 Audio support 6 Channel Speaker Mode, Jumper Free, Power Loss Recovery, 4 USB ports, Integrated Serial Infrared, NO LAN 2MB Award Bios, ATX Form for AMD Socket A/PGA Processors Must be Purchased with other Hardware ! i.e. Case, CPU, ... Order will not be processed if Sales Order consists of mother board only. Model#: A7V266-E *** Click here for ROUND cables *** Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
Detail Specs - Product Link - Chipset Info -See It! (image count 4 ) -Price Alert (N82E16813131115)
(avg rating out of 46 voters)
//

or

//
ASUS A7V8X 1000Mb/s LAN, Firewire IEEE1394, Serial ATA DDR400 AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/Duron Socket A, Processor Mother Board
Specifications:
Socket A - AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/ Duron
Chipsets: VIA KT400/8235
FSB: 333/266/200 MHz
3 x DDR DIMM PC3200/2700/2100/1600 (DDR400/333/266) non ECC SDRAM
Serial ATA
Firewire IEEE1394
LAN BroadCom 1000Mbs Network card
Ports: 1 x AGP, 6 x PCI, 6 x USB 2.0
Realtek 6-channel CODEC
ATX form factor Model#: A7V8X Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
- Product Link - Chipset Info -See It! (image count 6 ) -Price Alert (N82E16813131422)
(avg rating out of 6 voters)
//

or

//
Asus AMD 760MPX Chipset: AMD 762 north bridge, AMD 768 south bridge ATX Motherboard Model A7M266D
Dual Socket A for AMD AthlonTM MP 1GHz ~ 1.6GHz+. FSB: 266MHz. Memory: 4 x 168-pin DDR DIMM Sockets support max. 4GB registered or 2GB unbuffered PC2100 ECC / non-ECC DDR DIMM. Support max. 4 registered or 2 unbuffered DDR DIMMs. Max. 2.1GB/s data transfer rate. 3 x PCI 33-MHz 32-bit Slots + 2 x PCI 66/33-MHz 64/32-bit Slots. 1 x AGP Pro/AGP 4X. Model#: A7M266-D *** Click here for ROUND cables *** Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
Detail Specs - Product Link - Chipset Info -See It! (image count 4 ) -Price Alert (N82E16813131121)
//

or

//
ASUS A7V8X AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/Duron Socket A, Processor Mother Board
Specifications:
Socket A - AMD Athlon/Athlon XP/ Duron
Chipsets: VIA KT400/8235
FSB: 333/266/200 MHz
3 x DDR DIMM PC3200/2700/2100/1600 non ECC SDRAM
Ports: 1 x AGP, 6 x PCI, 6 x USB 2.0
OnBoard LAN
Realtek 6-channel CODEC
ATX form factor Model#: A7V8X/A Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
- Product Link - Chipset Info -See It! (image count 5 ) -Price Alert (N82E16813131423)
(avg rating out of 2 voters)
//

or

//
Asus VIA A7V333 Chipset ATX Motherboard w/ RAID
AMD Athlon XP Ready, C-Media CMI-8738 Onboard Sound. ASUS C.O.P. (CPU Overheating Protection), Support DDR333 (PC2700) **Promise IDE Raid ATA133** USB 2.0 Ready, TI controller1 x 1394 port, Asus Q-FAN (Variable Fan Speed Control) 5 x PCI 1 x AGP4X 3 x DDR DIMM Sockets. Max 3GB PC2700/PC2100/PC1600 DDR Must be Purchased with other Hardware ! i.e. Case, CPU, ... Order will not be processed if Sales Order consists of mother board only. Model#: A7V333Raid Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
- Product Link - Chipset Info -See It! (image count 4 ) -Price Alert (N82E16813131303)
(avg rating out of 41 voters)
//



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Is this DD RAM

//
CRUCIAL MICRON 512MB 64x72 PC 2700 DDR RAM - OEM
184-Pin, CL=2.5-Unbuffered Non Parity 2.5V, CT6464Z335 Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty. OEM Model#: CT6464Z335 -OEM Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
- Product Link (limit 5 per customer) -See It! (image count 1 ) -Price Alert (N82E16820145059)
(avg rating out of 5 voters)
//

much better than this

//
CRUCIAL MICRON 512MB 64x72 PC 2100 DDR RAM - OEM
184-Pin, CL=2.5-Registered ECC 2.5V, CT6472Y265 Requires DDR supported Motherboard - Lifetime Warranty. OEM Model#: CT6472Y265 Special Free FedEx Saver Shipping
(limit 10 per customer) -See It! (image count 2 ) -Price Alert (N82E16820145057
//

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And finally, what's the difference between the following hard drives:
Hard Drives - IDE
Hard Drives - IDE - Selector
Hard Drives - Microdrive
Hard Drives - Mobile Devices
Hard Drives - Removable Rack Kits / Inner Trays
Hard Drives - SCSI

?

Any help is appreciated.

btw,

I now have
$
350 Radeon 9700 Pro
100 Hard drive
100 Athlon XP (retail)
100 DDR Ram
100 Antec Case
170 Mobo
=
about $920
So...if a cooler comes with the Athlon XP and a power supply with the Antec case, other than the misc stuff (CD Rom Drive, Mouse, Keyboard, Monitor), is there anything else I'll need?

I hope someone can answere the last bunch of my questions.

 

[crabbyman]

I will leave the mobo questions to someone else as I see that it really doesnt make that much difference. You want just IDE driver....no selector...IDE is what most computers use. Selector is a later add on.

As for you DDR question....DDR 2700 is "faster" than DDR 2100. It also depends on what chipset comes with your mobo and if you plan to overclock your memory. 2700=DDR333 2100=DDR266 I have no idea how they get these numbers but that is what they equal. So like..the A7v-266E takes the 2100...it can use the 2700..but it will run the same speed as if you had the 2100. NOW on the other hand...if you have the A7V-333 mobo it takes 2700....and it can use the 2100 but when you use the 2100 you lower the DDR speed from 333mhz to 266mhz. ...which I hear isnt that big of a difference in performance...I personally use a MSI mobo with the Nvidia chip. Its nice.


Good luck!

 

[BZeto]

IDE hard drives are what you want.... I recommend Seagate, I just got a new Seagate 40 gig drive and I'm loving it! Quiet and fast.

Usually, the heatsink/fans that come with processors, even though they are approved by AMD, aren't that great. You'll also want to buy some case fans if your Antec case doesn't already come with some.

I've heard good things about the Asus A7V333 mobo. And it comes with firewire 😀

 

[Maggotry]

Originally posted by: crabbyman
I will leave the mobo questions to someone else as I see that it really doesnt make that much difference. You want just IDE driver....no selector...IDE is what most computers use. Selector is a later add on.

As for you DDR question....DDR 2700 is "faster" than DDR 2100. It also depends on what chipset comes with your mobo and if you plan to overclock your memory. 2700=DDR333 2100=DDR266 I have no idea how they get these numbers but that is what they equal. So like..the A7v-266E takes the 2100...it can use the 2700..but it will run the same speed as if you had the 2100. NOW on the other hand...if you have the A7V-333 mobo it takes 2700....and it can use the 2100 but when you use the 2100 you lower the DDR speed from 333mhz to 266mhz. ...which I hear isnt that big of a difference in performance...I personally use a MSI mobo with the Nvidia chip. Its nice.


Good luck!

The "2700, 2100, 1600" numbers are like PR ratings. They mean 2.7GB/s bandwidth. The benchmark scores I've seen between 2700/2100 memory on Athlon XP systems show a gain of like 3% or so in performance. You won't "see" that in everyday use, only in benchmarks. If you won't be oc'ing or going to a Barton XP, then save the extra $'s and buy the 2100.

In your original post you said you wanted an AGP8x slot. That limits your choice of boards greatly. You seem to have your mind set on ASUS (which is fine!) so your only option is the A7V8X You could also choose one of these boards from MSI.

Do you need a modem or NIC? Certainly you mean a CDRW drive, not a CDROM drive, right? What about OS?

 

[CrazySaint]

Personally, unless you have money to burn, I'd get the A7V333 instead of the A7V8X. The A7V8X is very pricey and the only thing it really adds is 8X AGP and S-ATA. IMO, 8X AGP is a non-issue as it offers NO performance increase of 4X AGP. Hell, we're not even maxing out 4X AGP yet! Your 9700 will run just fine on a 4X AGP board (in fact, it may well run better in 4X mode than 8X). S-ATA is also a non-issue unless you plan on buying S-ATA drives before you upgrade your motherboard. Also the A7V333 has better onboard sound than the A7V8X. I'd also get the fastest CPU I could afford to go with your Radeon, as even a 2.4GHz P4 holds it back in some benchmarks. I'd go with PC2100 over PC2700 on Athlons since Athlons can't use any bandwidth over PC2100 anyway, unless you plan on overclocking. Crucial is a good brand, but pricey, other good choices are Kingston, Kingmax, Mushkin, Corsair, etc. Do NOT get an IBM HD. Personally I recommend the Seagate Barracuda IV drives and the Western Digital Caviar "Special Edition" drives. The WD drives are MUCH faster, but the Seagate drives are a lot quieter. Can't go wrong with an Antec case/PSU combo.

 

[pitupepito2000]

Hi,

It seems that you have a lot of questions, but questions are always good. Well, here we go:

In the video card question. The answer is to get a "Built by ATI" video card because they usually perform better than "Powered by ATI" video cards, which are built by other companies. When you are gettin a video card is good to get a retail version because it comes with all the goodies, such as games, and other types of extra software that is worth the extra money. In short the answer is get the retail video card "Built by ATI" link..

Your second question is about who makes good AMD Athlon motherboards. There are several good motherboards brands that are good, here are my favorites MSI, ASUS, and GIGABYTE. When you are considering on buying a motherboard you have to look at good brands, the chipset that they are based on, the extra features that they have. Here are some reviews Gigabyte GA-7VRXP: One of the Best (very good motherboard one of my favorites; MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU Features (very good motherboard - it's the one that I have on my rig ).

If it were me I wouldn't really make a big deal about having AGP 8x, you won't really get a good deal on performance because AGP 8x is in such an early stage that even the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro won't support AGP 8x with all the motherboards that say that support AGP 8x, I don't remember where I read that sorry, but I wouldn't make the AGP a priority.

You are also asking about RAM and manufacturers, It's always good to get brand name quality ram. The brands that I would suggest are Crucial, Mushking, Kingston, and Samsung.

Which type of ram to get is another question that you have not asked, and I will tell you the answer. You see, RAM (Random access memory) is a very important part of the computer. The more ram the better. For example nowadays, most computer have at least 256MB of RAM, but it's better to have 512MB of RAM. You see the different Operating Systems like Windows 2000 or XP, have minimum requirements that your machine has to fulfill to run the operating system (Windows) normally. Windows 2000 requires a minimum of 64MB of RAM, and Windows XP requires at least 128MB of RAM. But these requires are the bare minimum. You will probably want 512MB of RAM for your computer, specially if you are going to be running Windows XP in your computer, which uses a lot of resources for the different eye candy features. Now the real thing about RAM is it's CAS Latency (which stands for Column Access Strobe). CAS is usually measured in numbers like CAS 2; CAS 2.5; and CAS 3. Now the lower the CAS the better, meaning the RAM with CAS 2.5 is performs faster/better than CAS 3, and CAS 2 performs faster/better than CAS 2.5. Here is a link with more info on the topic.
What I am trying to tell you is a very important lesson. Here it goes: When you are trying to buy RAM, 512MB of RAM CAS 2; is faster than 512MB of RAM CAS 2.5; the price difference between the ram is worth the money.

Which one to get, I would suggest this one link, from mushkin. I could also suggest this corsair memory, which is just mouthwaterring. My suggestion out of this two is the corsair which has CAS 2, which performs better.

About your monitor, the refresh rates that you get are very bad. The refresh rates are influenced by the refresh rates that your video card support (with the ATI Radon 9700 Pro you'll get good refresh rates), and your monitor. For example let's say you get the ATI 9700 Pro, tha video card supports refresh rates up to 200Hz, but if you have an old crappy monitor, the monitor probably won't support this high refresh rates, so you'll be limited to the low refresh rates of your monitor. My suggestion is to get a new monitor at least 17" or 19". You shouldn't really be using refresh rates any lower than 75HZ because you are hurting your eyes. My suggestion right now is to find out what is the highest refresh rate that your monitor supports. You can find out this by looking in the internet or in the manual of your monitor if you have one.

Which case to get is a no brainer I would suggest an Antec case performance series or performance plus. Here is a link. This antec case is a really good case and also very sturdy. It's the one that I have, it comes with two fans one in the back and one for the side panel standard, which will help you keep your case cool. This case also comes with the Antec True power supply which are just excellent. The power supply has all the power connectors that you will need for your new mobo. I highly recommend this case.

You are also asking about a heatsink/fan (cooler of the cpu) for your cpu. You have two choices: one you can buy a retail processor, which will come with the processor and the heatsink/fan. This heatsink/fan that comes with the retail processor it's not the best though. What I would do if I were you is get an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) CPU, and get a separate heatsink/fan. Here is the link for the cpu. Now the heatsink fan that I would suggest is HHC-001 from CoolerMaster. Here is a link to a review. You will also need good thermal paste here is a link. This will help you keep your cpu very cool. I wouldn't suggest you to go with the Athlon XP 2200+, even though it is a thoroughbred and it runs cooler than older athlons, it didn't do as good in overclocking.

Here is the answer to your last question. In this forum, we don't personally like IBM hard drives. I would suggest you brand like Maxtor, Western Digital, and Seagate. Here is a link. You probably want to get around 80GB of hard drives, and I will suggest you a hard drive with 8MB of buffer, and 7200RPM (revolutions per minute) this means that the hard drive will read faster, and write faster.

In conclusion, to what you have now :

350 Radeon 9700 Pro good choice
100 Hard drive get a brand name hard drive 80GB
100 Athlon XP (retail) get the OEM, and buy a good quality heatsink/fan
100 DDR Ram get Crucial, Corsair, Mushkin, Kingston, or Samsung (only brand name) and CAS 2
100 Antec Case good choice get the performance plus series, which comes with a really good
power supply
170 Mobo get ASUS, Gigabyte, or MSI, don't waste money on KT400 since they don't provide
that much of difference in performance


Woow that was a lot of typing and time. I hope this helps! and before I forget a lot of people are going to tell you to RTFM (which stands for read the FV@#ing material) and I am going to tell you that it is very important that you read the motherboard's manual, which comes with very important information. Read, and read, and read the material, before you put your pc together. Also visit some website on how to build pcs. Here are some:
anandtech buyer's guide
sharkyextreme.com buyer's guide
Tom's Hardware guide how to build a pc
lot's of links on how to build a pc

Now, you will need good places to buy the parts from:
http://www.newegg.com/ best place online
http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/Home.jsp really good better prices than newegg on some things

NOW BEWARE OF EMS COMPUTING DO NOT BUY FROM THEM.

Well, that's all I hope this helps you!🙂.
Some people may think why I typed all this. It did take me a long time, but I have been there not long ago, didn't know a lot about computers, and I needed help on how to put a pc together.

 

[pitupepito2000]

I hope you appreciate all that long post, it took me a while to get it .

Good luck with your pc.

REMEMBER RTFM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT

 

[WTT0001]

Ok, the system I came up with is $927 INCLUDING SHIPPING, See notes on the bottom as well:

ANTEC PERFORMANCE PLUS #PLUS660AMG (METALIC GRAY) w/ TRUEPOWER 330W PS - RETAIL - $100
WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE - OEM - $102.99
Crucial Micron 512MB 64x64 PC2100 DDR RAM, 184-Pin, CL=2.5 - $133
Asus VIA A7V333 Chipset ATX Motherboard w/ RAID Retail Boxed - $131
AMD ATHLON XP 1900+/266 FSB Processor - Retail CPU - $98
ATI RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB TV/DVI 8X AGP RETAIL - $347

Notes:

(1) The case is Grey, The case is Grey, The case is Grey, (did I say that enough?) Your drive may not match, I is a awesome case though, the beige one is an extra $10.
(2) The best performance in the "Home World" right now
(3) Notice this is a 512Mb Stick, Crucial has a lifetime warranty
(4) Asus is argueably the best, period.
(5) If you have an extra $30 get the Oem version and go to here and pick up an Thermalright AX-7
(6) Need I say anything on this one???

Anyway, an awesome system, ya wanna trade???

Edit: forgot to say "everything is from Newegg"

 

[Sub51]

Thanks a lot!!

 

[lukatmyshu]

I had one quick question, what is this machine for? I mean, obviously you're into gaming and what-not, I'm just confused why you wanted to stick with onboard sound. While nowadays it's definitely improved there is still a noticeable difference between the two. Obviously it's your decision but I'd spring for an Sound Card.

 

[Insane3D]

The Epox 8K5A2+ is currently one of the best Athlon XP boards out right now. The KT400 boards are generally slower and more expensive.

🙂

Edit: If you need any help building or setting up your new system, feel free to send me a private message. I would be glad to hep you out, whatever you get. 🙂

 

[dolph]

Originally posted by: lukatmyshu
I had one quick question, what is this machine for? I mean, obviously you're into gaming and what-not, I'm just confused why you wanted to stick with onboard sound. While nowadays it's definitely improved there is still a noticeable difference between the two. Obviously it's your decision but I'd spring for an Sound Card.

now, he might not be that into sound. obviously he's building a gaming rig (and a pretty one at that, too 🙂) but he might not be able to afford quality speakers to complement his computer. however, my guess is that his computer is in an environment where he's going to need to keep it quiet, so a high-priced sound card and speakers would be more or less worthless. besides, onboard sound these days is usually of high quality, and he should be fine using what he's already buying with a good pair of headphones.

one thing i'd like to chip in: if you're getting a motherboard with built in raid, i would recommend implementing in a raid solution. raid 0 if you're into speed (and you don't mind backing up, as there is a small but present increased chance of drive failure - just 'cause you're basically using 2 drives to do the work of one, so if one of the drives dies the data's gone), or raid 1 if you're into backing up (i'm guessing... no 😉). i'm not sure if your mobo of choice offers raid 0+1... but if you want more info, it's easy to find here.