Building a new PC

[Sir Fredrick]

I am a bad geek. I haven't been keeping up with the latest hardware developments for the past few years, mostly to keep myself from being tempted to spend lots of money on upgrades, but I think the time has finally come to build a new rig, so now I need your advice.

My current system is a dual Athlon MP 1800 setup. I enjoy the faster "feel" of a dualie system, so I definitely want either an Athlon X2 or an Intel Core 2 Duo. I understand that the C2D's are faster, but cost and energy consumption are issues for me as well.

I'm not a gamer, so integrated graphics is fine and would probably save me a lot of money. I would, however, like the option of being able to play games, not necessarily at the highest quality settings. I definitely don't need SLI.

Given the chance I have a tendency to upgrade my PC a lot (memory and addon cards), so a decent number of PCI slots would be useful.

Finally, I need a wireless adapter of some sort. I don't care if it's integrated onto the MB or not, though obviuosly having it integrated could mean another free PCI slot.

I'm thinking about the Asus M2NPV-VM, but it does seem to fall short in a few ways:
1. Memory. Seems to be very picky about what kind of memory you can use with it, and with memory being so expensive at the moment I'd like as many options as possible.
2. Not many PCI slots.
3. No eSATA. Also not sure if the SATA 3GB/s supports NCQ.
4. No integrated wireless, so there goes one of the few available PCI slots.

Is there anything (Intel or AMD) that would fit my needs better while still keeping the price point low?

I already have a sound card (though good quality integrated sound would be nice -- again, keep those PCI slots open!), DVD-RW, case and PSU, so don't worry about those things.

When it comes to DDR2 memory, does it matter much if I go for 662 vs 800?

 

[50cent1228]

i say go with c2d...its worth it as for a motherboard...wait for some1 else or look on new egg its easy to look for mobos there

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/ LightScribe and 5X DVD-RAM Write Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHM-165H6S - OEM
SAMSUNG 18X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black E-IDE/ATAPI Model SH-S182D - OEM
Rosewill R604-P BK 120mm Fan ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
NEC Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive - OEM
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Zonet ZFM5620-MT 56Kbps Data/Fax Modem - Retail
BIOSTAR V6202EL63 GeForce 6200 LE 256MB TurboCache(64M VRAM on board) GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Low Profile Video Card - Retail
FSP Group (Fortron Source) ATX400-PA, version 2.0, SATA, 400W Power Supply - OEM
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model VS2GBKIT667D2 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6300 - Retail
Microsoft Windows XP Home Sp2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM
TOTAL: $869.03 shipped

 

[Sir Fredrick]

I've been looking on newegg for motherboards, but so far haven't found any intel based ones with the same or better features of the M2NPV-VM. I forgot to mention that I do prefer integrated DVI which the M2NPV does have, but it's not exactly a requirement either.

Edit: hurtstotalktoyou replied at the same time I was writing this, so I didn't see it.
the system you configured has a lot of stuff I don't need, but I will consider the gigabyte board. At first glance it has less features than the M2NPV board I was considering...

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
I'm thinking about the Asus M2NPV-VM, but it does seem to fall short in a few ways:
1. Memory. Seems to be very picky about what kind of memory you can use with it, and with memory being so expensive at the moment I'd like as many options as possible.

Who says it's picky about memory? I have one of these and I read quite a bit about it before I bought it - found no reports of major problems. The memory controller for the A64 is on-die anyway, so it would be odd for a board to reject certain memory chips.

Also, what do you want the PCI slots for? It's got ethernet and sound built in, and even if you use the sound card, 2 slots is enough for that and wireless.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Sir Fredrick
I definitely want either an Athlon X2 or an Intel Core 2 Duo. I understand that the C2D's are faster, but cost and energy consumption are issues for me as well.

Core 2 Duo has lower power consumption than X2s. The difference is all about budget. Since your last rig was a dual-CPU venture, I'm guessing you'll be in the $1,000 range, which is more than enough for C2D. If you want to drop it below $800, though, an X2 (or Opteron) might be best.

I'm not a gamer, so integrated graphics is fine and would probably save me a lot of money. I would, however, like the option of being able to play games, not necessarily at the highest quality settings. I definitely don't need SLI.

Well, you're right insofar as integrated graphics are fine, but you'll run into two problems with that:
1) Few integrated boards have DVI, much less a TV-out (which is very handy, in my opinion).
2) Integrated boards are almost always mATX FF, which means you're looking at three PCI slots *if you're lucky*.
3) Although a lot of AMD-based integrated boards do overclock well, almost no Intel-based boards boast the same qualifications. Overclocking, in case you didn't know, is almost essential nowadays due to CPUs' incredible overhead potentials.
4) A basic turbocache video card is a lot better than any integrated solution, but hardly any extra cost (relative to the PC's total price).

So, although a nice integrated board might be adequate, I don't think I'd recommend one for your setup.

Given the chance I have a tendency to upgrade my PC a lot (memory and addon cards), so a decent number of PCI slots would be useful.

If you go with a full ATX (non-integrated) board that shouldn't be an issue.

Finally, I need a wireless adapter of some sort. I don't care if it's integrated onto the MB or not, though obviuosly having it integrated could mean another free PCI slot.

Wireless adapters are notoriously picky. I wouldn't count on an integrated chip to do the job. Sadly, neither can I recommend a dedicated card, myself. Good luck finding a good one.

I'm thinking about the Asus M2NPV-VM, but it does seem to fall short in a few ways:
1. Memory. Seems to be very picky about what kind of memory you can use with it, and with memory being so expensive at the moment I'd like as many options as possible.
2. Not many PCI slots.
3. No eSATA. Also not sure if the SATA 3GB/s supports NCQ.
4. No integrated wireless, so there goes one of the few available PCI slots.

Indeed. I don't know of any integrated boards with more than three PCI slots, and the vast majority have only two. That right there is probably enough to push you to a non-integrated setup.

Is there anything (Intel or AMD) that would fit my needs better while still keeping the price point low?

For Core 2 Duo, you're going to be stuck with something expensive ($120 or more). I'd recommend the Gigabyte board I mentioned in my above post. If you go with AMD, however, try the Biostar TForce 550 for $86. It's got the fastest AM2 chipset available, four memory, four PCI and two PCIe-x1 slots. It also boasts gigabit LAN, 7.1 audio and at least eight USB ports (ten if you get a case that has four front ports instead of just two). Oh, and it's got four SATA/300 ports, to boot!

I already have a sound card (though good quality integrated sound would be nice -- again, keep those PCI slots open!), DVD-RW, case and PSU, so don't worry about those things.

Ah, I didn't notice that the first time around. I might recommend a second DVD burner, however. My reasoning on that front is as follows: It helps to have two DVD drives. You can burn on the fly or otherwise work with two discs at once. So, as long as you're investing in a second drive, why not spend the extra $10 or so to make it a burner as opposed to just a reader? That gives you two key advantages: Firstly, you can burn two discs at once--which is not usually recommended, but may prove useful if you're pressed for time. Second, the odds of getting a batch of blank media you can't use is exponentially reduced, which saves you money in the long run. Finally, most of today's burners support all seven recordable formats, which is an even more obvious advantage.

When it comes to DDR2 memory, does it matter much if I go for 662 vs 800?

Hardly at all, no. DDR2-800 is still very expensive, so I'd recommend DDR2-667. I'd avoid DDR2-533, however, because it might impose a limit on overclocking.

Now that I've read your post more clearly, I have a new set of recommendations:

LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/ LightScribe and 5X DVD-RAM Write Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHM-165H6S - OEM
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
BIOSTAR V6202EL63 GeForce 6200 LE 256MB TurboCache(64M VRAM on board) GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Low Profile Video Card - Retail
AMD Opteron 1210 Santa Ana 1.8GHz Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor Model OSA1210CSBOX - Retail
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory Model VS1GBKIT667D2 - Retail
TOTAL: $504.68 shipped

WinXP will add about $91 to that price.

I'd also get a floppy drive and v.92 modem if you don't already have them. And, as I said before, you'll have to pick out a wireless adapter, yourself, due to my lack of knowledge there.

 

[Sir Fredrick]

Originally posted by: Atheus
Who says it's picky about memory?

A lot of the reviews on newegg mentioned difficulty with the RAM, and Asus has a rather short list of qualified vendors for the board which makes me a bit nervous about getting something not on the list...

Also, what do you want the PCI slots for?

I don't know the answer to that yet, but I've had my current system about 5 years, didn't know what I'd do with those slots either but now it's virtually full. Never know what technology will come down the road in the next 5 years that I might want!

 

[Sir Fredrick]

hurtstotalktoyou:
Thanks for your well thought out response. Alas my computer budget this time around is lower than it was last time. Last time I had a better job and no real bills to speak of, now I work for a library and have a mortgage payment. My desires have shifted a bit as well. Back then I wanted the fastest thing I could get my hands on, now I want something that's responsive, but energy efficient and QUIET. Between all the fans in this system and the 10kRPM SCSI drives it's getting quite annoying. I can't believe I used to sleep in the same room as this thing! I'd be happy to drop down to dual core with only a fan or two and a quiet, large SATA drive.

Thank you for pointing out those graphics cards. I did not realize they were so cheap, I only ever seem to hear about the $300+ cards which in addition to being insanely expensive also pump out massive amounts of heat. It seems reasonable to consider non-integrated boards if these cards are decent.

Wireless adapters are notoriously picky.

That has been my experience as well. I was hoping that I was just unlucky. My current wireless PCI card is a piece of crap and I'd much rather throw it away than transplant it into the new system. It occasionally crashse my system, and sometimes requires a reboot if I use it too hard (can't handle the demands of bittorrent).

I'll probably skip on the DVD burner for now, I have yet to hit on any bad media that mine can't write to and I imagine that I'll want to move up to blu-ray or hd-dvd when one or the other takes over and gets cheap, so I don't think it's worth getting another DVD-RW in the meantime. Plus I still have a CD-RW, so I can at least use them both for copying CDs.

Opteron 1210 vs X2 4200, is there a compelling reason to go with the Opteron over the X2? I'm just wondering because I was leaning towards the 65W version of the X2 and I think the Opteron uses about twice as much energy. Of course it's a moot point if I go with Intel. I haven't owned an intel machine since the first computer I bought with my own money, a P133!

Thanks for the MB and processor recommendations, looks like I have a lot of homework and thinking to do.

Edit: I have a floppy drive and a spare modem or 5 kicking around somewhere if I ever have to go back into the stone ages of dial up (please god no!).

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Well, the Opteron has 2x1MB L2 cache, and can be overclocked to a faster clock speed than any X2. The X2 4200+ 65W, however, is only $4 more, runs at a faster stock clock--but it has half the L2 at 2x512KB, and won't overclock as well at all. If power consumption is that important to you, well... all I can say is it's not that important to me, so I've never compared long-term running costs.

The Core 2 Duo definitely has less power than standard AMD chips, but I'm not sure about the 65W models. That would be a question for other folks.