Building a new computer... Need opinions! Ideas!

CKMorpheus

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2001
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I have an extremely old computer (PIII 450) and the holidays are coming up, as everyone knows. The things I plan on keeping are my video card (GF3 Ti200), my sound card (Sound Blaster Live! Value), my CD burner, and my DVD-ROM. These are the things I'm adding them into.

Case - 101 ROSWELL-X + Blue Cathode Light ($79 Colorcases.com)
Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-7VAX ($92 googlegear.com)
Power Supply - Enermax EG365P-VE 350W ($53 MicroPro.com)
CPU - Athlon XP 2100+ Processor Retail ($131 GoogleGear.com)
Memory - 2 x 256MB DDR PC2700 RAM Module #CT3264Z335 ($166 crucial.com)

Will all these things work without problems? Does anyone have a similar set-up? Also, I tried getting PC3200 ram from Crucial, but I havn't found any (I wasn't really looking too hard though) and I've read that the board is actually SLOWER with DDR400 ram, so am I better off with just PC2700? Yes, I'm pretty noobish, but I have a good idea on what I'm doing. Any other tips you guys have? Are there any better places to buy these pieces at? Cheaper? Better pieces for the same or cheaper price? Am I missing anything?


Here are some other possibilities...

OTHER MEMORY

CORSAIR MEMORY XMS 512MB PC3200 DDR400 Model #CMX512-3200 ($188 NewEgg.com)


OTHER PSU's

Raidmax *BLACK* DUAL Tri-Light FANS 400w ($50 NewEgg.com)


OTHER MOBOs

SOYO KT400 DRAGON ULTRA-B ($126 mwave.com)


OTHER CASES

CHIEFTEC Server Chasis (Workstation Tower) Model DX-01BD-SPX-02B IBM Black w/ Two Case Fans And Window400W AMD Approved Power Supply ($95 NewEgg.com)

A-TOP Model# AT826AWW-350 (Beige) ATX 10-BAY MID-TOWER CASE w/ 350W POWER SUPPLY - ***with SUPER COOL X-shape Window** and side panel fan ($65 NewEgg.com)

IMPRESSION Model# IM-21 (BLACK) P4 MID-TOWER CASE - RETAIL ($60 NewEgg.com)

NIKAO ZEUS, ( SILVER ), ATX P4 MID Tower. 11 bays. With side window and vent slots ($57 NewEgg.com)

SKY HAWK, JUPITER Model# PSR4609D7 (SILVER) ATX MID-TOWER CASE ($89 NewEgg.com)

Raidmax Model A228 (Aluminum) Case with 10" Sound Activated Neon Stick and Side Window ($75 NewEgg.com)



What Wattage power supply would I need? 350? 400? What could I get away with with an XP 2100+?

Opinions? I'm trying to sqeeze my budget into 500 bucks or less. I could go a few bucks over though. I'm also thinking ahead for the future. I'm planning on buying the NV30 when it comes out to take advantage of the AGP 8x.
 

CrazySaint

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
2,441
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DDR400 is a complete and utter waste on Athlon systems, you are correct, its actually *slower* than DDR333. This is primarily caused by increased latencies from running the RAM so far out of synch with the FSB.
 

npcom

Member
Nov 4, 2002
61
0
0
I usually work with ASUS and MSI mobos...

Unless you need the Compact Flash & smart card reader (and you cannot disable one or the other) and or the RAID 0+1 function, I would recommend the ASUS A7V8x (KT400).

it has FIREWIRE, USB 2.0 ports which I find to be quite good. Layout is better (except the RAM & AGP port conflict due to having 6 slots) and the BIOS navigation blows.

I would NOT recommend those Roswell type cases (all those are the same, other than the faceplates) as they are low-end... if you look you can find them for even less with the PSUs.

A GOOD chassis nowadays should have Hard Drive bays that can get AIR FLOW. which they DON'T get when pressed up against a flat metal wall of most cases. Antec SX series and IN-win J523/B ($70~80 with 300watts) cases have drive bays where they belong (www.in-win.com) and for even better cooling but quiet expensive are the LianLi cases. About $130~180 without the PSU.

I highly recommend THAT In-Win case for its small size and excellent air-flow. It draws in more air with a single 80cm fan a LianLi with 4 fans. note: the OTHER IN-WINs like the model 508 ARE NOT designed like the J523B, I had to send one back today.

For the lighting, I like the THIN ones better than the bulky fat ones. CompUSA sells them for about $20 and they include an ON-OFF switch! Thermaltake makes one with an on/off switch as well.

CHIEFTEC Server case (this is the same as those sold under Antec & Enermax and Thermaltake - who is the REAL manufacture?!) - make sure you get the one with the USB-Firewire ports on the front. The Impression IM21 is a cheap knock off of a LianLi chassis at CompUSA - Here is the link for the LianLi (CompUSA labeled) with 3 windows : http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=293599 - then go to the LianLi case to get more details of the inside.

A low-cost case is not as tough or flexible as a good solid case. There are reaons why these cheap cases costs $50... and they look worse in real life.

Mixed call on the GF3... I did upgrade to the GF4-Ti4200. but I needed the extra horse power today to play UT2003. I'll be waiting for the NV30 to costs under $200 or whatever ATi throws up against it... ie: One or the other, no brand loyality here on Video chips.

Good luck.

PS: Its a bit tough, but some onboard audio maybe equal to an SB Live card...
 

CKMorpheus

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2001
18
0
0
Originally posted by: npcom
I usually work with ASUS and MSI mobos...

Unless you need the Compact Flash & smart card reader (and you cannot disable one or the other) and or the RAID 0+1 function, I would recommend the ASUS A7V8x (KT400).

it has FIREWIRE, USB 2.0 ports which I find to be quite good. Layout is better (except the RAM & AGP port conflict due to having 6 slots) and the BIOS navigation blows.

I would NOT recommend those Roswell type cases (all those are the same, other than the faceplates) as they are low-end... if you look you can find them for even less with the PSUs.

A GOOD chassis nowadays should have Hard Drive bays that can get AIR FLOW. which they DON'T get when pressed up against a flat metal wall of most cases. Antec SX series and IN-win J523/B ($70~80 with 300watts) cases have drive bays where they belong (www.in-win.com) and for even better cooling but quiet expensive are the LianLi cases. About $130~180 without the PSU.

I highly recommend THAT In-Win case for its small size and excellent air-flow. It draws in more air with a single 80cm fan a LianLi with 4 fans. note: the OTHER IN-WINs like the model 508 ARE NOT designed like the J523B, I had to send one back today.

For the lighting, I like the THIN ones better than the bulky fat ones. CompUSA sells them for about $20 and they include an ON-OFF switch! Thermaltake makes one with an on/off switch as well.

CHIEFTEC Server case (this is the same as those sold under Antec & Enermax and Thermaltake - who is the REAL manufacture?!) - make sure you get the one with the USB-Firewire ports on the front. The Impression IM21 is a cheap knock off of a LianLi chassis at CompUSA - Here is the link for the LianLi (CompUSA labeled) with 3 windows : http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=293599 - then go to the LianLi case to get more details of the inside.

A low-cost case is not as tough or flexible as a good solid case. There are reaons why these cheap cases costs $50... and they look worse in real life.

Mixed call on the GF3... I did upgrade to the GF4-Ti4200. but I needed the extra horse power today to play UT2003. I'll be waiting for the NV30 to costs under $200 or whatever ATi throws up against it... ie: One or the other, no brand loyality here on Video chips.

Good luck.

PS: Its a bit tough, but some onboard audio maybe equal to an SB Live card...

Would the IN-win J523/B's 300w PSU be enough for what I want to use?
 

wizdum

Senior member
Jan 28, 2002
278
0
0
no! amd requires 350W and you want to go 50W over that ALL the time so find a 400W PSU. Sparkle 400W PSU for example.

get a different motherboard with a kt400 chipset. i recommend looking at amd's website for recommended ones, i think right now though, only MSI is recommended for KT400. and MSI would be a good choice although i would recommend going for a KT400 from EPoX. pc2700 is good. ............................... get a server size case if you can.
 

CKMorpheus

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2001
18
0
0
Originally posted by: wizdum
no! amd requires 350W and you want to go 50W over that ALL the time so find a 400W PSU. Sparkle 400W PSU for example.

get a different motherboard with a kt400 chipset. i recommend looking at amd's website for recommended ones, i think right now though, only MSI is recommended for KT400. and MSI would be a good choice although i would recommend going for a KT400 from EPoX. pc2700 is good. ............................... get a server size case if you can.

My friend uses a 300w Power supply and he has 3 hd's, RAID,DVD, CDRW, GF3, Modem, NIC, SBLive, 3 fans, IrDA device with a 1900+ processer on a Epox 8k7a+.... no problems. So either he doesn't know his actuall power supply wattage, or there are some annoying rumors on how much power an athlon takes.
 

Ynog

Golden Member
Oct 9, 2002
1,782
1
0
CKMorpheus, I would have to agree with you. I think there are some rumors out there on
what power supplies are actually needed. I am not sure how much more power an
AMD uses than a Pentium 4. But my sister ordered a Pentium 4 1.7 Ghz computer from
Gateway. And they basically give you the power supply to fit the system. That
system has 2 HDs, CD-RW, DVD, and it runs on a 250W power supply.
Now I doubt that AMD requires an additonal 100W to run.

Though it never hurts to have more. I think 350W would be good for the system you
were talking about.
 

CKMorpheus

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2001
18
0
0
I've narrowed it down to the following...

Case - ANTEC CHAS ATX12V 43OW P/S TRUEPWR ($121 techsavings.com)
CPU - Athlon XP 2100+ Processor Retail ($127 NewEgg.com)
Memory - CORSAIR MEMORY XMS 512MB PC2700 DDR333 Model #N82E16820145401 ($176 NewEgg.com)

Now all I have left is to decide on the mobo...

Either the Gigabyte GA-7VAX ($92 googlegear.com) or the Soyo KT400 Dragon Ultra ($125 newegg.com). Which is worth it more? Should I go for a few bucks more and get the Dragon, or is the Gigabyte good enough?
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
0
You want a new computer? I'll give you a good computer. However, you first have to tell me when you plan on upgrading things. Personally, I upgraded from a system VERY similar to yours (PII 450, GF3 Ti200, Turtle Beach sound card). At the time, the "sweet spot" for AMD XPs was the 1900+. Right now, the sweet spot is 2000+. If you don't want to take my word for it, look here at Anand's current price guide. There's always a spot at which getting a proc at a PR of 100 less would only save $10-$11, and right now, that's the 2000+. It's $22 to go to the next-higher proc, while it's only $11 less for the 1900+. Trust me, you won't notice the difference between the two, only the money in your pocket.

Next, when are you planning on upgrading your proc in the future? Will it be a hammer? If you are sure that the next step you're going to take is the Hammer, then I wouldn't bother with KT-anything right now. The board for you is the ECS K7S5A. You don't need RAID, or sound, so get rid of them and go with (IMHO) the most stable board in existence that supports the Athlon XP. If you don't believe me, just read the many praises sung about this board in this forum. I'm not going to post any, just click on search above, make sure that the "General Hardware" and "Motherboard" forums are checked, and search for K7S5A. The performance difference between this and the newest motherboards out is VERY MINIMAL, and I seriously doubt that you would notice it. And hey, if I'm wrong, someone will come in here and say so, but I'm sure they won't. I have one running my AXP 1900+ right now and it smokes. The only concerns with this motherboard would be the RAM (I'll get to that in a minute) and the AGP slot. Yes, I know, it's only 4x. But, since you haven't read the reviews, and I, on the other hand, spend most of my day reading hardware reviews, I can tell you that even the NV30 won't need that kind of bandwidth for AT LEAST a year and a half, and I truly feel that it will be even further away than that. There are many that say that even 4x is more than enough for a couple of years. Oh yeah, and the K7S5A is only $54 at Newegg.com; not too shabby.

However, let's now assume that your next proc upgrade will be a Barton in the fairly-near future (6-months to 1-year). First off, I doubt it. By then, Hammer will be out and you'll have better things to spend your money on. However, just in case, I will recommend that you go with the Asus A7V8X. It's competitively priced ($119 at Newegg.com), especially considering Asus' reputation as completely rock-solid. The reasons for that board and that chip are 333MHz FSB support and AGP 8x support. That way, if you get NV30 and a Barton some time next year, you'll already be ready for them. But again, if your next upgrade is Hammer, no chipset you buy now will support it, so you'll get support for AGP 8x then, in plenty of time for games that can use it.

Next up is RAM. This depends on your motherboard choice. If you get the ECS mobo, then get PC2100 DDRRAM. If you get the Asus board, get PC2700 DDRRAM. Currently, on any AMD proc that's available for purchase by itself (OEMs have access to 2800+ XPs), the FSB runs at 266MHz. Getting RAM that runs at 333MHz FSB (i.e. PC2700) is mostly wasted. Not that there is zero performance boost, but it is extremely minimal, and once again, not noticeable. However, if you're getting the Asus board (and thus plan on upgrading to Barton in the near future), then getting PC2700 would be smart, since Bartons will be based on a 333MHz FSB. That way, you won't have to buy new RAM then. The only thing to concern yourself with is getting RAM with fast timings. I ABSOLUTELY recommend getting CL2 rated RAM sticks. As for brand, Corsair is the best RAM on the market (once again, nobody is going to tell you otherwise, so take my advice), followed by Mushkin, Geil and Crucial. Again, make sure to get CL2 rated sticks, I can't stress enough that it's worth the small increase in price. The only CL2-rated sticks of 2100 I found were Mushkin. They are Mushkin 512MB 2-2-2 rated PC2100 for $173 (the 7th one down on the page) at Newegg.com. Since the cheapest CL2 rated stick of PC2700 that I found was $195, that is another $22 savings that won't hurt performance. One other thing to mention; the reason I recommend PC2100 for the ECS board is that, if you plan on upgrading to Hammer in the future, you won't be upgrading before they get to DDR II, or Dual-channel DDR. Thus, the RAM you buy now would only be used now and would have to be thrown out later.

As far as cases go, I'd recommend either the Antec PLUS 1080AMG for $97, which I think is the one you were mentioning below, or the Antec PLUS 660AMG for $79, both at Techbargains.com. The former has the 430W PS and a door, while the latter has a 330W PS and no door. I hate doors, as I then have to open it every time I want to access my drives, but, to each his own. The 430W PS isn't necessary AT ALL right now (contrary to what some may tell you), but might be good in the future. However, by the time you upgrade to another computer, there is the chance (I honestly don't know, maybe others will know more) that the PS won't be compatible with the newer motherboards. Therefore, I would recommend the 330W PS in your current rig, and get something new for your next one.

So, the final specs are:

AXP 2000+ - $93 at Newegg.com (add $10 for a Cooler Master DP5-6I11A and Arctic Silver 3 Thermal Material)
ECS K7S5A - $54 at Newegg.com
Antec PLUS 660AMG - $79 at Techsavings.com
Mushkin CL2-rated 512MB PC2100 DDRRAM - $173 at Newegg.com

Grand Total = $399 before shipping (around $30 - $35, mostly for the case)

I'll bet that you don't see the difference in performance over what you had selected, and I guarantee that you won't see a $100 difference. I'll try to watch this forum, but if you have any questions, you can always reach me through sending me a private message. Good luck, and happy buying!

EDIT: WOAH!! DO NOT GET THAT CASE! Being a good little helper, I remembered to go to Reseller Ratings.com to check on TechSavings.com, which I did not know. TechSavings has the horrendous rating of 4 out of 10. Not good enough for me to spend MY money. Plus, they have extremely high shipping, which brings the costs up considerably. After a look through Pricewatch.com, I find that Newegg is the next-lowest-priced reseller that I trust. Personally, I usually recommend going with them no matter what prices you find elsewhere, but again, to each his own. The new prices are:

AXP 2000+ - $93 at Newegg.com (add $10 for a Cooler Master DP5-6I11A and Arctic Silver 3 Thermal Material)
ECS K7S5A - $54 at Newegg.com
Antec PLUS 660AMG - $94 at Newegg.com
Mushkin CL2-rated 512MB PC2100 DDRRAM - $173 at Newegg.com

Price (SHIPPED!) = $449 (the shipping was $25 if you don't want to do the math)

Not too dang bad if you ask me.
 

npcom

Member
Nov 4, 2002
61
0
0
Originally posted by: CKMorpheus
Originally posted by: npcom
I usually work with ASUS and MSI mobos...

Unless you need the Compact Flash & smart card reader (and you cannot disable one or the other) and or the RAID 0+1 function, I would recommend the ASUS A7V8x (KT400).

Good luck.

PS: Its a bit tough, but some onboard audio maybe equal to an SB Live card...

Would the IN-win J523/B's 300w PSU be enough for what I want to use?


With 1-2 HDs, a GOOD 300watt PSU will do fine.

The trouble is that PSU makers go with 2 sets of numbers! A 300watt PSU may have a TRUE max of 200watts!! Antec PSUs TruPower are quite good in this respect.

SONY & HP systems (I consider low-end) with AMD, 2 optical drives, 1 HD, floppy have sub 200watt PSU!

I have a DURON 900 in an OLDer case which originally has a Celeron. Its PSU is a 250watt, yet on the label in detail it says 160max.

It's currently powering (with NO CRASHESH) - AMD Duron 900 / 512mb / KT133 / Voodoo3 / SB Live / Kingston NIC / 2x IBM 80GB drives / 2 optical drives / ZIP drive / Floppy Drive. It has a GOOD FKI PSU.

The IN-win 512J with its stock 300watt unit has a true max of about 220watts. I have an Antec SX350 case with PSU (says 350) has a total combined output of 230~330watts.

I used to run 4 HDs on a 250watt PSU, with 6 expansion cards - in the old days.

For basic users, a 300 watt (good brand) is more than enough. Remember, there are EVEN junkie 400watt PSUs on the market.

IN-WIN installs good PSUs in their cases, I have no complaints.


 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,801
581
126
Get CL2 Samsung, Crucial or Corsiar memory @ PC2700. That case is more than you need but should last you nearly forever so good investment. I like Gigabyte and Asus mobos. I do NOT like SOYO mobos, and MSI is very meh to me.