Building a mid(to high?) end gaming PC-advice?

[tolis626]

So...While I'm new to the forums,I've been watching AnandTech closely for some years now.I figured out that this was the moment I could use some help from you guys.
First things first.I've been using an HP Pavillion dv7 2030ev for the past 4 years.A tight budget and then a tighter budget has,until now,made it impossible for me to upgrade to something better.But alas,after these years,I can spend enough money on a PC.As it stands,I'll use all the money I can on the PC itself,so no monitor and peripherals,I'll use my HDTV as I have until now (I connected the Pavillion to it through HDMI and used a bluetooth keyboard and mouse).
As gaming is my top priority,I desperately want to get rid of my laptop's now crappy Core2Duo P8600 and Mobility Radeon 4650.So,the build I think I'll be ordering is:
CPU : Intel Core i7 4770K
Motherboard : MSI Z87-G45 GAMING
GPU : Sapphire HD7950 Vapor-X OC 3GB GDDR5
RAM : Corsair CMY8GX3M2B2133C9R Vengeance Pro 8GB (2X4GB) DDR3 2133MHZ C9
SSD : Kingston SH103S3/120G HyperX 3K 120GB SSD 2.5'' SATA3
HDD : Seagate ST1000DM003 1TB Barracuda 7200.14 SATA3
PSU : Coolermaster RS-700-ACAB-D3 B700 700W
Case : Either a Coolermaster RC-922XM-KKN1 HAF XM or a Aerocool Mechatron Black Mesh Edition
RAM is limited to dual-channel 8GB for now,but I'll buy at least 8 more some time in the next 6 to 12 months.

-What will the PC be used for?
I will be using it mostly for gaming,entertainment and browsing the web and reencode a movie or two.However,later in the year I may need to do some anatomy stuff (I'm a med student) that involves complex three-dimensional modeling of the human body.
-What is my budget?
Up to 1300€.It may increase or decrease,but not by a lot,so let's stick to 1300.
-What country will the parts be bought from?
Greece,where I'm from.I see ordering parts from another country as too much trouble.However,if anyone can suggest something I would appreciate it.
-What vendor will the parts be bought from?
I plan on buying everything from http://www.e-shop.gr/.I have bought from them many times in the past and they have proven to be very good.They have rather good prices and very good service.I also never had any troubles with claiming warranty from them.They also have a nice tool,where I can choose the parts one by one and they can build it from me,saving me the trouble(Although I'd like to build my PC myself,I don't know).
-Brand preferences?
Well,I don't have any love for NVidia.Their GPUs are good nowadays,but in the past I've had troubles that made me hate them.Plus they are generally more expensive,at least in this part of the world.I don't consider the 7970 at the time,because I can get similar/the same performance from the 7950 for quite less money.Also,if my budget decreases,I may buy a 7870 and wait patiently to upgrade to the high end card from AMD's next series(9xxx?).Apart from that,I wanted to buy an AMD CPU just to support them (I kinda like AMD),but they just aren't there yet CPU-wise,so Intel it is it seems.
-Will any existing parts be used?
Probably not.I may end up using an old HDD for extra space and I won't be adding a DVD player yet to add a cheaper Blu-Ray player later.For now I'll use an external player I have at home.
-Plans of overclocking?
Eventually yes.I plan to run it at stock speeds for some time,but the moment I feel I want more,I'll start overclocking things,starting with the GPU.Or maybe I'll overclock my GPU from day one and leave everything else alone for some time.I will stay with the 4770K's stock cooler in the beginning,but I'll buy a rather high-end air cooler later.If I can have a suggestion about one,I'd appreciate it.
-Screen resolution?
I'll be using my HDTV as my monitor,so 1080p.
-Build date plans?
Most probably I will have ordered it by the end of September.Something like the 20th-25th I believe.
-Software?
I don't know about that.I'm still torn about the Windows 7 vs 8 thing,but that's hardly relevant to this thread.

Sorry for the long and rather confusing post and thanks in advance for any replies

 

[lehtv]

Can you please format your post so that it contains the questions in the sticky as a list, so we don't have to hunt down every bit of relevant info from a wall of text, thank you.

 

[mfenn]

I'm guessing the OP is Greek by his location. OP, can you post links to some shop's you'll use? We can help you hunt down deals. Off the top of my head:

- CPU: The i7 is not worth the money on a gaming rig, save here by going to an i5 4670K and max out the GPU instead.
- Mobo: Good board, but whether or not it's the right one for you depends on price and available alternativces.
- GPU: You can and should spend more here. 7970 Ghz at the minimum, 780 if you can swing it after trimming other parts.
- RAM: High clock DDR3 does next to nothing for an Intel processor, certainly not enough to justify the cost. Step down to normal DDR3 1600 and spend the rest on the GPU.
- SSD : I don't see any reason to buy SF-2281 at this point unless you have no alternatives at the same price point.
- HDD : Good
- PSU: You can probably do better here, but I'd need to see what your alternatives look like
- Case: Either one of those is OK if you're going for the gamer look, I'd certainly get whichever one costs less.

 

[tolis626]

Can you please format your post so that it contains the questions in the sticky as a list, so we don't have to hunt down every bit of relevant info from a wall of text, thank you.

First off,thank you for pointing that out.I didn't realise I had to make it like a list of questions and answers.
Secondly,is it ok now?It did become longer...It's more organized though.

I'm guessing the OP is Greek by his location. OP, can you post links to some shop's you'll use? We can help you hunt down deals. Off the top of my head:

- CPU: The i7 is not worth the money on a gaming rig, save here by going to an i5 4670K and max out the GPU instead.
- Mobo: Good board, but whether or not it's the right one for you depends on price and available alternativces.
- GPU: You can and should spend more here. 7970 Ghz at the minimum, 780 if you can swing it after trimming other parts.
- RAM: High clock DDR3 does next to nothing for an Intel processor, certainly not enough to justify the cost. Step down to normal DDR3 1600 and spend the rest on the GPU.
- SSD : I don't see any reason to buy SF-2281 at this point unless you have no alternatives at the same price point.
- HDD : Good
- PSU: You can probably do better here, but I'd need to see what your alternatives look like
- Case: Either one of those is OK if you're going for the gamer look, I'd certainly get whichever one costs less.

You got the country right.
First off,thank you for your answer.I am considering the i7 purely because it's the best I can buy.In the back of my head,I always have the fact that the CPU and mobo are the hardest to upgrade,as both need to be replaced together,while,say,a GPU is simpler,one gets out,another gets in.Plus,I can't find the same mobo with a 1155 socket and I'm in love with that mobo.I also noted down the RAM suggestions.It's just that,when sticking to the Vengeance Pro,the 1600MHz modules are just 15€ cheaper than the 2133MHz ones.Regarding the SSD,PSU etc,what do you suggest?I placed a link of the vendor in my reformatted post.You may want to check it out again now that I followed lehtv's suggestion.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for posting that link. My comments:

- CPU: Sure the i7 is the fasted thing you can buy, but it costs 33% more than the i5. The i7 will never be 33% faster than the i5, no matter how long you wait. It won't even make the difference between playable and unplayable. Therefore, get the i5 4670K for 221e
- Mobo: OK, looks like the G45 Gaming is way too expensive for what it offers. Grab the ASUS Z87-K for 120e instead.
- RAM: This Crucial Ballistix DDR3 1600 8GB kit is a great deal at 53e
- GPU: Your budget easily sustains the 7970 at 389e.
- SSD : The Sasmung 840 120GB at 88e is a good performing drive that avoids the reliability issues of a Sandforce like the HyperX.
- HDD : Your Seagate 1TB is a good choice at 60e
- PSU: This XFX Core 650W at 93e is a Seasonic-built supply (read: much higher quality than the Cooler Master) with plenty of power for your uses.
- Case: It seems like you're into the gamer aesthetic, but please let me know if you aren't. I think the Mechatron at 94e is a better case for you since it costs significantly less than the HAF XM while having the same basic feature set.

Total: 1118e

You can certainly get the 7950 and try your luck at overclocking it. What I would NOT suggest is spending more on the CPU, mobo, etc. You'd just be throwing money away on bad price/performance parts that could be saved for an upgrade down the line.

 

[tolis626]

Thanks for posting that link. My comments:

- CPU: Sure the i7 is the fasted thing you can buy, but it costs 33% more than the i5. The i7 will never be 33% faster than the i5, no matter how long you wait. It won't even make the difference between playable and unplayable. Therefore, get the i5 4670K for 221e
- Mobo: OK, looks like the G45 Gaming is way too expensive for what it offers. Grab the ASUS Z87-K for 120e instead.
- RAM: This Crucial Ballistix DDR3 1600 8GB kit is a great deal at 53e
- GPU: Your budget easily sustains the 7970 at 389e.
- SSD : The Sasmung 840 120GB at 88e is a good performing drive that avoids the reliability issues of a Sandforce like the HyperX.
- HDD : Your Seagate 1TB is a good choice at 60e
- PSU: This XFX Core 650W at 93e is a Seasonic-built supply (read: much higher quality than the Cooler Master) with plenty of power for your uses.
- Case: It seems like you're into the gamer aesthetic, but please let me know if you aren't. I think the Mechatron at 94e is a better case for you since it costs significantly less than the HAF XM while having the same basic feature set.

Total: 1118e

You can certainly get the 7950 and try your luck at overclocking it. What I would NOT suggest is spending more on the CPU, mobo, etc. You'd just be throwing money away on bad price/performance parts that could be saved for an upgrade down the line.

I see your points,all valid.
Regarding the GPU,I had the Sapphire Vapor-X OC or the XFX Double Dissipation Black Edition in mind,regardless of whether it's the 7950 or the 7970.
Anyway,i5 eh?I suppose the only real differences are in hyper-threading and 2MB of L3 cache.While my inner nerd is telling me to go for the ultimate in the 4770K,my logic agrees with you on the 4670K.My trouble was that I thought the 4670 was on a LGA1155 socket,but I was wrong.
As for the mobo...The MSI and this ASROCK had my attention.I don't think the MSI one is too overpriced though,and it's adorable.
About RAM,I was fixed on either Corsair or OCZ,purely because of my good past experiences with them.And here I'm ready to pay the premium and go for what's better.
Speaking about gamer aesthetic,I'm totally into it (Thus is part of the love for the MSI mobo),and that's the reason I chose these two cases.I think the Mechatron looks far better.The other one is just larger and,I don't know,I just thought that maybe I could need it.I probably won't,however.
Finally,looking at the spec sheet,isn't the Samsung SSD a little...slow?I mean,its write speed is 130MB/s while on the Kingston it's 510MB/s or something.I could agree going for Samsung,but for a little more,isn't this one far better?

EDIT:2 more questions:
1)Is a 650W PSU enough for when I start overclocking the hell out of everything?
2)Is case cooling really necessary?I mean,the Mechatron already has 2 fans by itself,the i5/i7 has its own cooler and a somewhat low heat output,and the GPUs I'm looking at have a hell of a heat dissipation system.

 

[tolis626]

I am just thinking out loud here,but why not go with either a 7870 or a 7950 and save the extra money to update later in the year or in early 2014?AMD's new GPU lineup is rumored to be coming in October...

 

[mfenn]

I see your points,all valid.
Regarding the GPU,I had the Sapphire Vapor-X OC or the XFX Double Dissipation Black Edition in mind,regardless of whether it's the 7950 or the 7970.

The XFX DD cooler is pretty bad, Sapphire's is much better. There's no reason to pay a big premium for fancy factory overclocks, you can do the same on your own by moving two sliders to the right.

As for the mobo...The MSI and this ASROCK had my attention.I don't think the MSI one is too overpriced though,and it's adorable.

IMHO, "adorable" is not a valid reason to buy a motherboard. Get the one that has the features that you need and spend the rest of the money on parts that actually add performance.

About RAM,I was fixed on either Corsair or OCZ,purely because of my good past experiences with them.And here I'm ready to pay the premium and go for what's better.

OCZ RAM is terrible, so terrible that they were forced out of the market. Crucial RAM is top notch, they are one of the 3 companies in the world that actually make their own DRAM.

Finally,looking at the spec sheet,isn't the Samsung SSD a little...slow?I mean,its write speed is 130MB/s while on the Kingston it's 510MB/s or something.I could agree going for Samsung,but for a little more,isn't this one far better?

The difference between the Samsung and Kingston spec sheets is that one is a lie and the other isn't. I'll let you guess which is which. OK, that's a little harsh, but since the Kingston uses a Sandforce controller, its speed is heavily dependent on the contents of the files that you write. So naturally, they cherry picked the best workload (very compressible file, all zeroes) and advertise that.

As for the 840 versus the 840 EVO, the EVO is certainly better, but you will never notice a difference unless you run SSD benchmarks all day for fun. (Don't actually do that, it's a great way to shorten your SSD's lifespan.)

EDIT:2 more questions:
1)Is a 650W PSU enough for when I start overclocking the hell out of everything?

Absolutely.

2)Is case cooling really necessary?I mean,the Mechatron already has 2 fans by itself,the i5/i7 has its own cooler and a somewhat low heat output,and the GPUs I'm looking at have a hell of a heat dissipation system.

No, you don't need to buy any extra fans.

I am just thinking out loud here,but why not go with either a 7870 or a 7950 and save the extra money to update later in the year or in early 2014?AMD's new GPU lineup is rumored to be coming in October...

If you want to wait for the next generation, then wait. Otherwise, buy the best card you can now. Spending a couple hundred euros on a card that you might only use for a couple months is the same as adding 200 euros to the price of every new card. Not a good deal at all.

 

[tolis626]

The XFX DD cooler is pretty bad, Sapphire's is much better. There's no reason to pay a big premium for fancy factory overclocks, you can do the same on your own by moving two sliders to the right.

Well,I don't care whether the card is factory overclocked or not.I just want it to have an as good as possible cooler so that I can later overclock it myself (Sapphire's Vapor-X seems to be one of the best out there).And I just read some reviews (Including AnandTech's) and some posts here that prove what you said.Not only does the XFX run hotter,it produces more noise and,as if that's not enough,the Sapphire has lower consumption than even AMD's reference cards,even though it runs at a higher clock.
Generally,even though I was ready to sacrifice SOME GPU performance initially,I have an "enough is never enough" approach to these things,that's why I wanted the 4770K as my CPU.I also liked Gigabyte's GPUs,but they are voltage locked.

IMHO, "adorable" is not a valid reason to buy a motherboard. Get the one that has the features that you need and spend the rest of the money on parts that actually add performance.

I wouldn't buy it for its looks,for sure.I just like it very much.What concerns me as much as its feature set is the quality of the materials used.I intend to start overclocking stuff in the future,as I mentioned,and I don't want my mobo to melt down like my old one did (Actually everything around the CPU socket was damaged badly).I'll do some research about mobos with similar feature sets and see what I'll decide on.

OCZ RAM is terrible, so terrible that they were forced out of the market. Crucial RAM is top notch, they are one of the 3 companies in the world that actually make their own DRAM.

Really?Hmm...Then it has indeed been too long since the last time I built a PC.The last one I built was my father's and his OCZ RAM is still working like a charm.It was a high-end model though.As for Crucial,I had underestimated them.Regarding that,would it be better if all my DIMMs were the same?Or is it OK to install,say,2 Crucial DIMMs now and 2 Corsair ones later?I mean,it'll work,but what are the complications?

The difference between the Samsung and Kingston spec sheets is that one is a lie and the other isn't. I'll let you guess which is which. OK, that's a little harsh, but since the Kingston uses a Sandforce controller, its speed is heavily dependent on the contents of the files that you write. So naturally, they cherry picked the best workload (very compressible file, all zeroes) and advertise that.As for the 840 versus the 840 EVO, the EVO is certainly better, but you will never notice a difference unless you run SSD benchmarks all day for fun. (Don't actually do that, it's a great way to shorten your SSD's lifespan.)

So Samsung is honest with their SSD's?And they did a very good job?Wish they did that with their smartphones!

Absolutely.

Alrighty then,650W it is!

No, you don't need to buy any extra fans.

I was just wondering if I had to,because most cases I looked at have about 521363473 places to install a case fan.They're actually very cheap (sub 10&#8364,so I may as well install one and see how it goes.

If you want to wait for the next generation, then wait. Otherwise, buy the best card you can now. Spending a couple hundred euros on a card that you might only use for a couple months is the same as adding 200 euros to the price of every new card. Not a good deal at all.

Good point.I could always stay happy with my 7970 for a year or more,sell it and then upgrade.Or I could stay with the 7970 for a loooooong time if my financial situation doesn't improve.

EDIT:Will the 4670K's factory cooler be enough as long as I keep it at stock speed or overclock it mildly(say 4GHz)?

 

[Essence_of_War]

EDIT:Will the 4670K's factory cooler be enough as long as I keep it at stock speed or overclock it mildly(say 4GHz)?

Stock cooler is fine if you're not OC'ing.

If you're doing anything more than +5-10% or so, I'd probably spend $30 on the Arctic Freezer, or $35 on the CM EVO

Freezer is likely better value.

 

[lehtv]

The stock cooler is a bit loud though, if you want the PC to be quiet you need aftermarket cooling. But then you should make sure your case fans are not too loud either, otherwise the aftermarket cooler is not going to pay off

Yep, Freezer i30 is better. Performs the same at a lower RPM, 6yr warranty, and IMO it looks better. I would buy it even if it cost $10 more than 212 Evo instead of $5 less.

 

[tolis626]

Stock cooler is fine if you're not OC'ing.

If you're doing anything more than +5-10% or so, I'd probably spend $30 on the Arctic Freezer, or $35 on the CM EVO

Freezer is likely better value.

Hmm...I thought I'd have to shed more than 50€.The Arctic seems very good and it's small-ish,so no trouble fitting it in the case.Thanks man

The stock cooler is a bit loud though, if you want the PC to be quiet you need aftermarket cooling. But then you should make sure your case fans are not too loud either, otherwise the aftermarket cooler is not going to pay off

Yep, Freezer i30 is better. Performs the same at a lower RPM, 6yr warranty, and IMO it looks better. I would buy it even if it cost $10 more than 212 Evo instead of $5 less.

Regarding noise levels,I am concerned because the cases I'm looking at both have at least two fans preinstalled.If I can remove those and install my own,I'll be alright.Good thing noise doesn't bother me much,but it'd be a nice bonus if it was quiet as well as running cool.Thanks for the tip.

 

[lehtv]

It's not a very good idea to remove the existing fans unless you want to burn cash. If concerned about noise you should (a) get a silent case like Fractal Design R4, or (b) install a fan controller to downvolt the stock fans.

 

[tolis626]

It's not a very good idea to remove the existing fans unless you want to burn cash. If concerned about noise you should (a) get a silent case like Fractal Design R4, or (b) install a fan controller to downvolt the stock fans.

I see...Well,I have decided on the case (Aerocool Mechatron),so I'll just hope it's quiet.If not,I'll install more fans on it for when needed and get me a fan controler so that I can have peace and quiet when I want.Yeah,that seems like a good idea for when I do my first upgrade (8 more gigs of RAM maybe?).

 

[mfenn]

Generally,even though I was ready to sacrifice SOME GPU performance initially,I have an "enough is never enough" approach to these things,that's why I wanted the 4770K as my CPU.I also liked Gigabyte's GPUs,but they are voltage locked.

I don't really agree with the statement "enough is never enough". If we went by that philosophy, every computer would costs $3000 because it included all of the highest-end components. Spending 33% more to add 5% performance just does not make sense to me.

I wouldn't buy it for its looks,for sure.I just like it very much.What concerns me as much as its feature set is the quality of the materials used.I intend to start overclocking stuff in the future,as I mentioned,and I don't want my mobo to melt down like my old one did (Actually everything around the CPU socket was damaged badly).I'll do some research about mobos with similar feature sets and see what I'll decide on.

There are certainly bad quality motherboards out there, but I'm not recommending any of them. Anything PCB from the Big 3 + ASRock (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI) is built to a high spec.

The reality is that a $70 ATX board and a $300 ATX board are built on the same process just with different components added to them. If you don't need the features provided by the higher end board, then there's no reason to get one.

Regarding that,would it be better if all my DIMMs were the same?Or is it OK to install,say,2 Crucial DIMMs now and 2 Corsair ones later?I mean,it'll work,but what are the complications?

It's certainly preferable to have matched DIMMs and you shouldn't go out of your way to create unmatched ones right off the bat. However, I wouldn't sweat it if you need to add a different brand in 2 years.

I was just wondering if I had to,because most cases I looked at have about 521363473 places to install a case fan.They're actually very cheap (sub 10€),so I may as well install one and see how it goes.

Fans are mechanical parts and so have actual variations in quality. A super cheap fan isn't going to do much for you other than make your system loud.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think it would be a good thing to discuss the word "quality". Usually, when people talk about quality, it actually about reliability and endurance. It's basically about the motherboard not dying and working without issue upon arrival or "soon" afterwards. I would say "soon" is best defined as when the components with the shortest lifespan are expected to fail; these are typically the electrolytic capacitors. Having more insight on what causes failures can help determine whether paying for a more expensive board actually results in greater reliability.

I don't have any personal experience with manufacture of products with PCBs, but one can certainly agree that some things need to happen or else they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Stuff can happen before assembly, during assembly, or after assembly that can cause a motherboard to fail. I am of the opinion that paying for a higher price motherboard can, but won't always, lessen the chance of reliability issues during the period before the motherboard is actually assembled, and that is only if the motherboard manufacturer is using less reliable components in there lower-end models. This is when the selection of component manufacturers--those who make capacitors, transformers, transistors, integrated circuits, MOSFETS, etc-- and design the electrical circuits of the board occurs. This is also when the components are manufactured. They are then bought and sent to a factory for assembly.

Some components made by certain companies are more prone to defects and/or have shorter expected lifespans, such as Fuhjyyu for capacitors. But you can have a great design and quality components and still have a dead and "not fully alive" board because of events in assembly or post-assembly, and the processes that go on during those periods do not distinguish between high-end and low-end boards that much

In the factory, I suspect the boards are treated mostly like equals. Some of the workers are tasked to stick components in the board and solder on some components; these are tasks that can only be done well or not well. The soldering machines cannot make a distinction, although the machines can vary in quality. Perhaps some companies don't test every lower-end board that is produced, but this is speculation on my part.

After they go out of the factory, they are subject to the typical risks of being transported.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't really agree with the statement "enough is never enough". If we went by that philosophy, every computer would costs $3000 because it included all of the highest-end components. Spending 33% more to add 5% performance just does not make sense to me.



There are certainly bad quality motherboards out there, but I'm not recommending any of them. Anything PCB from the Big 3 + ASRock (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI) is built to a high spec.

The reality is that a $70 ATX board and a $300 ATX board are built on the same process just with different components added to them. If you don't need the features provided by the higher end board, then there's no reason to get one.



It's certainly preferable to have matched DIMMs and you shouldn't go out of your way to create unmatched ones right off the bat. However, I wouldn't sweat it if you need to add a different brand in 2 years.



Fans are mechanical parts and so have actual variations in quality. A super cheap fan isn't going to do much for you other than make your system loud.

I am going to go against the general consensus and note that based on total system cost the 4770k is only 10% more expensive. I could see a possibility that down the road it could be worth it if games become highly multi threaded. But that is just speculation, and I agree that now at least the 4670k is a better value.

 

[tolis626]

I don't really agree with the statement "enough is never enough". If we went by that philosophy, every computer would costs $3000 because it included all of the highest-end components. Spending 33% more to add 5% performance just does not make sense to me.

If I had 3000 bucks I'd probably spend them on a PC. :biggrin:
Anyway,what I meant is,no matter if what you get is good enough,it won't be enough a little while after you get it.That's why I wanted the 4770K,because I wouldn't need to upgrade soon.Initially I wanted AMD's FX8350.The GPU is very easy to upgrade (If we don't factor in the money needed),unlike the CPU and mobo.

There are certainly bad quality motherboards out there, but I'm not recommending any of them. Anything PCB from the Big 3 + ASRock (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI) is built to a high spec.
The reality is that a $70 ATX board and a $300 ATX board are built on the same process just with different components added to them. If you don't need the features provided by the higher end board, then there's no reason to get one.

I see...Well then,I'll see my alternatives again.

It's certainly preferable to have matched DIMMs and you shouldn't go out of your way to create unmatched ones right off the bat. However, I wouldn't sweat it if you need to add a different brand in 2 years.

If I decide to upgrade my RAM in 2 years,I'll probably buy 32 gigs of faster RAM than what I get now with less money,so what I'll install now would probably get the boot treatment.

Fans are mechanical parts and so have actual variations in quality. A super cheap fan isn't going to do much for you other than make your system loud.

Yeah...So no fan yet,no one's rushing me.

I think it would be a good thing to discuss the word "quality". Usually, when people talk about quality, it actually about reliability and endurance. It's basically about the motherboard not dying and working without issue upon arrival or "soon" afterwards. I would say "soon" is best defined as when the components with the shortest lifespan are expected to fail; these are typically the electrolytic capacitors. Having more insight on what causes failures can help determine whether paying for a more expensive board actually results in greater reliability.

I don't have any personal experience with manufacture of products with PCBs, but one can certainly agree that some things need to happen or else they wouldn't exist in the first place.

Stuff can happen before assembly, during assembly, or after assembly that can cause a motherboard to fail. I am of the opinion that paying for a higher price motherboard can, but won't always, lessen the chance of reliability issues during the period before the motherboard is actually assembled, and that is only if the motherboard manufacturer is using less reliable components in there lower-end models. This is when the selection of component manufacturers--those who make capacitors, transformers, transistors, integrated circuits, MOSFETS, etc-- and design the electrical circuits of the board occurs. This is also when the components are manufactured. They are then bought and sent to a factory for assembly.

Some components made by certain companies are more prone to defects and/or have shorter expected lifespans, such as Fuhjyyu for capacitors. But you can have a great design and quality components and still have a dead and "not fully alive" board because of events in assembly or post-assembly, and the processes that go on during those periods do not distinguish between high-end and low-end boards that much

In the factory, I suspect the boards are treated mostly like equals. Some of the workers are tasked to stick components in the board and solder on some components; these are tasks that can only be done well or not well. The soldering machines cannot make a distinction, although the machines can vary in quality. Perhaps some companies don't test every lower-end board that is produced, but this is speculation on my part.

After they go out of the factory, they are subject to the typical risks of being transported.

Thanks for taking the time to write this post.I just hope I don't run on a problematic mobo this time.On my old PC I had to replace my Gigabyte board within the first 2 months because some capacitors decided to get fried.At least I bought the same model again and didn't have to reinstall everything from scratch.

I am going to go against the general consensus and note that based on total system cost the 4770k is only 10% more expensive. I could see a possibility that down the road it could be worth it if games become highly multi threaded. But that is just speculation, and I agree that now at least the 4670k is a better value.

Valid point too.And now that I put this into perspective,even with the 7970 that I eyed and everything else as I planned,it "only" increases the price to 1410€,so if my budget can sustain it,why not?If it doesn't,4670K it is.I only hope I can afford everything now...

 

[tolis626]

So,after searching around a little bit,I saw 3 more mobos that seem good enough...One is the ASROCK H87 PERFORMANCE,second is GIGABYTE GA-Z87-D3HP and the final one is the ASROCK Z87 EXTREME4.Τhese are cheaper than the MSI I initially had in mind.I also found this,the ASUS Z87 PRO,but it's even more expensive so that's just here to be here.I'd go for the Fatality ASROCK (H87 Performance),but it sports an H87 chipset and that troubles me.I don't think it's good enough because of it.Had it not been so,I'd choose it in a heartbeat.

EDIT : If I had money to burn as in the "enough is never enough" argument,I'd already have gone for something like this or another one in ASUS's ROG lineup and buy a case that lets me see the mobo from outside.And all that because it just looks absolutely badass.Alas,it's got among the worst value for money ratios around it seems.

 

[lehtv]

Z87 Extreme4 is the best out of those you listed. ALC1150 sound, 12-phase power, SLI/CF, etc.

 

[tolis626]

Z87 Extreme4 is the best out of those you listed. ALC1150 sound, 12-phase power, SLI/CF, etc.

What's your opinion on the comparison betweeen the Extreme 4 and the MSI that I posted in the OP?

 

[lehtv]

Can't really find fault in either. Get whichever is cheaper or looks better?

There are ofc minor differences like MSI having 4-pin fan headers all around, Asrock having a couple of legacy PCI slots, MSI lacking DisplayPort etc. but nothing to make or break a deal.

EDIT: check this out http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-look-mainstream-z87-boards-from-asrock-and-msi/32950.html

 

[tolis626]

Can't really find fault in either. Get whichever is cheaper or looks better?

There are ofc minor differences like MSI having 4-pin fan headers all around, Asrock having a couple of legacy PCI slots, MSI lacking DisplayPort etc. but nothing to make or break a deal.

EDIT: check this out http://vr-zone.com/articles/first-look-mainstream-z87-boards-from-asrock-and-msi/32950.html

Ooook...You just helped me make up my mind.I never thought ASRock would impress me,but I'm proven wrong.Thanks yet again man.

 

[johny12]

I totally agree with tolis626 on samsung playing so cheap with their smart phones. I am sure people already have more clarity on who is more focussed on the quality. sandforce from the very beginning has been a clear winner to me no matter how much other competitiors try to penetrate into it. Their products like hyperx stands out very bold & always assures of good performances. Days got to be over for cheaters

 

[tolis626]

I totally agree with tolis626 on samsung playing so cheap with their smart phones. I am sure people already have more clarity on who is more focussed on the quality. sandforce from the very beginning has been a clear winner to me no matter how much other competitiors try to penetrate into it. Their products like hyperx stands out very bold & always assures of good performances. Days got to be over for cheaters

Well,Samsung's SSDs are top notch.I think mainly because they don't have the luxury of being the biggest cat around like they do in the smartphone space.I don't know about SandForce controllers though,so it's just what I read around the net.If they lie about performance,though,they got my disrespect.