Building a good stable rig to last the next 4 years.

[gamefreakgcb]

Oops, typical rush, i didnt read your original post. No its a tower cooler and isnt perfectly suited for those small but excellent LiLi cases. A Scythe Shuriken is more likely to it.

I'd like to avoid top-down coolers, blowing to the back coolers is what I'm looking for, or a Corsair H70

 

[gamefreakgcb]

So I've decided on the This miniITX motherboard, I'm dithering between the i5 650 and the i5 750, because one has IGP and the other does not. I do have a Gigabyte 4550 PCI-E card with me though. What do you guys say?

 

[Zap]

small footprint, mATX or mini ITX, space constraints
family will see no heavy usage
Radeon 4550 is sufficient
stay under $500 for case, mobo, CPU, RAM, PSU
want to install and forget
power-efficient
usage is internet, music, online HD videos and word processing
no gaming
no BD playback
once in a blue moon audio/video conversion
stable for 4 years
good power-consuption/performance wise

Does that sum up what you are looking for?

Here's my suggestion:

CPU - Dual core socket 1156 of your choice.

Motherboard - The Gigabyte mini ITX board is a nice one.

RAM - Find a nice 2x2GB DDR3 kit that is at least 1333MHz and rated for 1.5v. Faster is nice, but not at the expense of cost.

Graphics - Use the integrated graphics and ditch the video card.

Case/power - Antec ISK 300-150 or 310-150, if you can live with only using (up to 2) 2.5" drives. Alternately the Silverstone SG06 supports one 2.5" and one 3.5", but is a larger case.

 

[betasub]

If you are prepared to use the on-package graphics, then the Gigabyte H55 board is a good choice combined with a dual-core LGA1156 processor like the i3-5xx (similar to i5-6xx, but no Turbo).

 

[gamefreakgcb]

Does that sum up what you are looking for?

Here's my suggestion:

CPU - Dual core socket 1156 of your choice.

Motherboard - The Gigabyte mini ITX board is a nice one.

RAM - Find a nice 2x2GB DDR3 kit that is at least 1333MHz and rated for 1.5v. Faster is nice, but not at the expense of cost.

Graphics - Use the integrated graphics and ditch the video card.

Case/power - Antec ISK 300-150 or 310-150, if you can live with only using (up to 2) 2.5" drives. Alternately the Silverstone SG06 supports one 2.5" and one 3.5", but is a larger case.

So I shouldn't need Quad-core right? an i3 would likely handle my needs? Plus I've sort of come in posession of a spare rig so I can pull till Feb-March, should I still wait for SB?

If you are prepared to use the on-package graphics, then the Gigabyte H55 board is a good choice combined with a dual-core LGA1156 processor like the i3-5xx (similar to i5-6xx, but no Turbo).

How decent is the on-package graphics here? Any major improvements in SB?


EDIT: The i7-950 is $199 at microcenter

 

[nyker96]

this is a funny premise, I can tell you there's nothing that will last for 4 years, I'd say even a i7 6core will be slow by then. computer industry evolves so much faster than anything else, maybe a tv will last 4+ years and still be ok, not cpu or graphics card. 4 years we'd be in 8core land by then maybe 12core.

but ok, looks like you are buying for just office work, for that any cheap cpu like x4 635 or i3 5xx will probably be good enough for a long long time. my parent's old x2 6000+ is plenty for their spreadsheets and web browsing, I'd say too much even.

 

[cbn]

How decent is the on-package graphics here? Any major improvements in SB?

A lot of people really like Clarkdale's 45nm GPU for routine tasks. In fact, it seems to have found favor with the HTPC crowd.

Sandy Bridge graphics are based on 32nm and have been touted as 2x faster.

P.S. What is the reason you prefer SFF over a laptop + external hard drive for storage? Do you feel the SFF would be a more reliable platform?

 

[gamefreakgcb]

A lot of people really like Clarkdale's 45nm GPU for routine tasks. In fact, it seems to have found favor with the HTPC crowd.

Sandy Bridge graphics are based on 32nm and have been touted as 2x faster.

P.S. What is the reason you prefer SFF over a laptop + external hard drive for storage? Do you feel the SFF would be a more reliable platform?

Yes actually, I have used almost all brand of laptops and if I wanted a laptop to last as long, I'd need to spend a good bit of money compared to choosing my own quality parts (plus I just like assembling computers, I've never bought a ready-made desktop for my house, ever). My e6600 build is still going strong, and I was suggesting my dad try out an SSD with it to make it feel faster. I've got a Socket 775 Supermicro board for like $19 and I could always make a decent rig for the institution I mentioned. Plus I can always carry the SSD over to the next build. And for storage I need only 2 500Gb HD's (redundancy). So, 1 SSD + 1 500GB HD internal and one 1 500GB HD external over USB3.0 or 2.0 or eSata (generally doesn't matter to me).

 

[exar333]

I still say go for the quad to have the system potentially last longer in functionality. With prices so close, and idle power not too different, it's worth-it IMHO.

 

[cbn]

Yes actually, I have used almost all brand of laptops and if I wanted a laptop to last as long, I'd need to spend a good bit of money compared to choosing my own quality parts

What parts on your laptops failed first? (If you don't mind me asking).

 

[gamefreakgcb]

What parts on your laptops failed first? (If you don't mind me asking).

I've used long-term A compaq presario in 2002 which was good till about 2005, then reformat and install would still not get it fast, added ram and still a no-go, then a Lenovo from around 2006 which is laying around here and is slow is hell even after changing ram/hdd. I've had a Dell XPS and an Inspiron as well. Some HP laptops. Sony, Asus, Gateway laptops also. The quality ones I found are the Thinkpads and the portege from Toshiba (I think). In general, a laptop just starts feeling sluggish after about 2 years in. And then I have to upgrade something in it to get it to original speed. I buy and sell a lot of laptops to friends and co-workers, and I've sold about 4-5 assembled rigs also. And I've found that those rigs are still running today with at most a reformat and reinstall required (I made recovery discs for them). Thats my observation.

 

[cbn]

I've used long-term A compaq presario in 2002 which was good till about 2005, then reformat and install would still not get it fast, added ram and still a no-go, then a Lenovo from around 2006 which is laying around here and is slow is hell even after changing ram/hdd. I've had a Dell XPS and an Inspiron as well. Some HP laptops. Sony, Asus, Gateway laptops also. The quality ones I found are the Thinkpads and the portege from Toshiba (I think). In general, a laptop just starts feeling sluggish after about 2 years in. And then I have to upgrade something in it to get it to original speed. I buy and sell a lot of laptops to friends and co-workers, and I've sold about 4-5 assembled rigs also. And I've found that those rigs are still running today with at most a reformat and reinstall required (I made recovery discs for them). Thats my observation.

So changing memory and/or hard-drive doesn't help. Have you tried upgrading processors?

P.S. Do these laptops start getting louder over time as well? (I am having a hard time figuring out why the hardware can't be restored to original speed with a clean install).

or

Do you think any of these slow downs you are mentioning are related to prolonged heat exposure affecting the hardware/mainboard? (even if the fan(s) were not accumulating dust).

 

[gamefreakgcb]

So changing memory and/or hard-drive doesn't help. Have you tried upgrading processors?

P.S. Do these laptops start getting louder over time as well? (I am having a hard time figuring out why the hardware can't be restored to original speed with a clean install).

or

Do you think any of these slow downs you are mentioning are related to prolonged heat exposure affecting the hardware/mainboard? (even if the fan(s) were not accumulating dust).

Probably, and therein lies the problem, I don't want to upgrade the mobo/cpu at all. And a laptop just doesn't have the longevity I want unless I pay premium, and then I'm better off getting a decent rig. I think heat kills my laptops over time.

 

[Athadeus]

Every version of Windows gets more bloated over time and takes a terrible toll on low/medium-low end pcs. Even high end stuff you will most likely have trouble getting continued driver development for after 5 years.

My $230 D975XBX never officially got Vista drivers, and that OS was released during the 3 year warranty period I bought it in. Heck, the network driver for XP didn't even have the exact network chip on the supported list after 2 years, though it kinda worked (had to force a MAC address before any network connectivity, because it would not automatically generate one).

 

[gamefreakgcb]

Every version of Windows gets more bloated over time and takes a terrible toll on low/medium-low end pcs. Even high end stuff you will most likely have trouble getting continued driver development for after 5 years.

My $230 D975XBX never officially got Vista drivers, and that OS was released during the 3 year warranty period I bought it in. Heck, the network driver for XP didn't even have the exact network chip on the supported list after 2 years, though it kinda worked (had to force a MAC address before any network connectivity, because it would not automatically generate one).

My current rig was built in the Vista time period and I just upgraded to Windows 7, I did not have to install a single driver, everything is running as is.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Your rig is still nice and Sandy Bridge is right around the corner (possibly even January). It'd be rather foolish not to wait for it at this point. SB will be faster while also being more energy efficient than current i5/i7 stuff. The stock cooler will even have a smaller profile; perfect for miniITX. If you want something better or quieter there's plenty of aftermarket coolers designed for small cases. For example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103046 Some tower coolers will even work for microATX. You'll just have to check your dimensions. Though you're not overclocking so the stock cooler is perfectly fine.

Read about SB: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3922/intels-sandy-bridge-architecture-exposed and also look at the performance preview.

 

[gamefreakgcb]

The value segments won’t see Sandy Bridge until 2012.

Direct quote from article Patrick Wolf linked. What does that statement mean>?

 

[Jdawg84]

IMO even going with a I7 now in 4 years it'll be VASTLY outdated. All you have to do i slook back 4 years to the Pentium D's. They're garbage now

 

[Patrick Wolf]

IMO even going with a I7 now in 4 years it'll be VASTLY outdated. All you have to do i slook back 4 years to the Pentium D's. They're garbage now

True, but not for basic computing. It's highly unlikely that basic desktop computing like the OP will be doing is going to become so demanding (in Windows 8 or 9?) that even a C2D would be as sluggish as a Pentium is today running WIndows Vista/7 (hell even that's not half bad if you don't have too many things running in the background).

Though in that article it was mentioned that even basic computing could see in increase in speed with SB's improvements.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

The value segments won’t see Sandy Bridge until 2012.

Direct quote from article Patrick Wolf linked. What does that statement mean>?

The value stuff is not what you'll want. You'll be looking at the i3's (dual core meant to replace current i3's) or better yet the i5-2400 (quad core meant to replace the dual core i5-650) at launch. The performance preview shows the i5-2400 being faster than the i5-760 and is likely to be <$200.

Hell, if nothing else when SB is launched prices will drop for the 1156 parts.

 

[gamefreakgcb]

The value stuff is not what you'll want. You'll be looking at the i3's (dual core meant to replace current i3's) or better yet the i5-2400 (quad core meant to replace the dual core i5-650) at launch. The performance preview shows the i5-2400 being faster than the i5-760 and is likely to be <$200.

Hell, if nothing else when SB is launched prices will drop for the 1156 parts.

Just hope some quality m-itx or m-atx mobos are available on launch, and problems ironed out.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Just hope some quality m-itx or m-atx mobos are available on launch, and problems ironed out.

Yeah, hopefully nothing serious arises. But even boards with a so-called "mature" platform can have issues.

 

[pitz]

I personally would just buy a single DIMM (ie: 4gb) and then upgrade from there. Instead of buying a 2x2gb kit, and then upgrading from that.

Last thing you want to be stuck with, in the future, is a bunch of low density RAM that you can't sell and have to throw out. With the recent price drops, there is no premium on the 4gb DDR3 parts versus the 2gb parts.

Quite frankly, on a Q6600, if you put a SSD in there, unless you're a serious gamer, it will be just as fast/good as a brand new machine.

 

[gamefreakgcb]

I personally would just buy a single DIMM (ie: 4gb) and then upgrade from there. Instead of buying a 2x2gb kit, and then upgrading from that.

Last thing you want to be stuck with, in the future, is a bunch of low density RAM that you can't sell and have to throw out. With the recent price drops, there is no premium on the 4gb DDR3 parts versus the 2gb parts.

Quite frankly, on a Q6600, if you put a SSD in there, unless you're a serious gamer, it will be just as fast/good as a brand new machine.

That is looking more and more likely, considering SB is around the corner. A microcenter branded SSD is available here at microcenter for 128GB for $160. Im picking one up tomorrow.

Edit: Damn, its OOS. Guess I wait now.

 

[gamefreakgcb]

HOLY COW!! I just installed a Microcenter G2 (Sandforce controller) SSD and all I can say is, this thing is screaming fast.