Building A Future proof System, Please help

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
do they make 250GB SCSI 15.3K cheetahs?

Nope, the biggest one is 73Gb and runs about $600. They do have a 146Gb Cheetah 10k.6, the 10000rpm Cheetah, but you give up the fluid bearings that make the 15000rpm models relatively quiet at idle. And the 146Gb Cheetah is $800. That's why I suggested combining some smaller Cheetah 15k.3's with some high-capacity IDE drives for mass storage... performance where it counts, economy where it doesn't.

 

[mechBgon]

If you did want to try the SCSI thing, then you might consider the Gigabyte 8KNXP Ultra with a hyperthreading Pentium4. The Ultra version has an Adaptec dual-channel Ultra320 SCSI controller onboard, plus six memory slots. The Pentium4s have the edge in many 3D modelling apps such as Lightwave 7 and 3DSMax, so they would probably be the best all-around choice for that type of usage, as well as video encoding. There is a review of this board at AnandTech here that you can check out.

 

[dguy6789]

ok thx, I would like to try to stay from intel however, would an athlon MP system be good? perhaps 2 2600+ MPs, or maybe a 3000+ if it ever comes out?

 

[BenSkywalker]

would an athlon MP system be good?

If you are going to go AMD MP, then I would reccomend going Opteron particularly concerning your need for future proofing. If not, hold out for the 400MHZ FSB AXPs which should hit fairly soon(and move over to PC3200 RAM). I wouldn't agree with deciding on a R9700Pro just yet. I do agree that the performance rift isn't worth the price difference when looking at the R9800Pro, the new FXs should hit tomorrow so you can see how those things fall in to place fairly quickly.

When you say your rig will be acting as a server, is this for your personal LAN? How many rigs are connected to it? It may not be worth the added money to you to go SCSI if your demands aren't high enough in terms of strain. If the primary concern of the machine is desktop useage with some occasional file swapping I would go with either IDE RAID or SATA.

 

[dguy6789]

there will be 1 - 2 rigs at max connected to it, So, what would be faster a dual opteron system, or a athlon 64, considering either one would be the fastest available at the time?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Personally, to be future proof a little more, you may just want to get a cpu with Hyper Threading because as applications become optimized for its use, it can make a big impact.

 

[0roo0roo]

mp is good for future proofing against lag in windows from too much multitasking, but not in games if you have to sacrifice single task speed to afford slower dual mp.

 

[BenSkywalker]

there will be 1 - 2 rigs at max connected to it, So, what would be faster a dual opteron system, or a athlon 64, considering either one would be the fastest available at the time?

Dual Opteron should be quite a bit faster then the Athlon64 all else equal when the second CPU can be used. It is possible that AMD will ramp up the clockspeed enough so that buying the fastest dual Opteron system now won't match up with the fastest A64 by the time it launches, however like clocked dual Opterons should be considerably faster then a single A64 in multithreaded or heavy multitasking environments.

Which 3D workstation apps are you planning on using? With the amount of machines that you have I would take the additional money SCSI would run you and place it elsewhere. If you are thinking about running Maya, Soft Image or 3DSM heavily then you might want to consider dropping the extra cash on a QuadroFX graphics board. If you aren't running 3D apps heavily, and looking at the rest of your useage, going SMP isn't a certain way to boost your performace as much as the additional cost would warrant either. Unless you are multi tasking heavily(enough to strain a single CPU), or will be spending a decent amount of time working with 3D viz/CAD applications then the fastest single processor machine you can buy is likely a better option. I was throwing out the Opteron as it would be a better move then an AthlonMP setup.

If you are going to hold out for a few months until the A64 is available then I would certainly be looking in that direction. The 400MHZ FSB AXPs should be here quite soon so I would certainly wait to see how they stack up at least.

 

[gf4200isdabest]

CPU is probably the most important part of a system and you have chosen the wrong one there buddy...Take a look at the way the new CPU's run SETI and you can see why getting a 3000+ would just be a bad idea for a "futureproof rig": http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030414/i875p-24.html . That's a 25% speed decrease from the 3.06GHZ or the 3GHZ for all too lazy to read it. Explain why you'd want to "stay away from intel"...Because it's faster? Because it runs cooler? Or because you're one of those people who still hasn't let go from 4 years ago...Take it from me, someone who used to be as big of an AMD fanboy as you could find...Intel has a better processor out right now. If you want an AMD rig your only good bet would be waiting for definitive AMD 64 benchmarks and see if that comes close to Intel's offering because, quite frankly, the 3000+ isn't even close...

/Seti > All

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: gf4200isdabest
CPU is probably the most important part of a system and you have chosen the wrong one there buddy...Take a look at the way the new CPU's run SETI and you can see why getting a 3000+ would just be a bad idea for a "futureproof rig": http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20030414/i875p-24.html . That's a 25% speed decrease from the 3.06GHZ or the 3GHZ for all too lazy to read it. Explain why you'd want to "stay away from intel"...Because it's faster? Because it runs cooler? Or because you're one of those people who still hasn't let go from 4 years ago...Take it from me, someone who used to be as big of an AMD fanboy as you could find...Intel has a better processor out right now. If you want an AMD rig your only good bet would be waiting for definitive AMD 64 benchmarks and see if that comes close to Intel's offering because, quite frankly, the 3000+ isn't even close...

/Seti > All

gf4200isdabest, for the record, the 3GHz Pentium4 has a "typical" thermal design factor of 82W, versus about 62W for an AthlonXP 3000+ (reference: Sandpile.org and Intel.com). Just wanted to set the record straight.

dguy6789, the other thing that you might want to do is to build a separate box to serve as a file server, so your primary system can do its thing without being pestered by the other systems on the network. Get yourself a little Linksys gigabit switch (the one with all 10/100/1000 ports, not just one) and some gigabit network cards, and the hard drives will be the slowest link in the chain. The file server won't need a cutting-edge CPU in it... I'd recommend an Asus A7N266-VM with an AthlonXP 1700+ for it, and 512Mb of Crucial PC2100 (great time to buy). Throw that in an Antec SX635IIB case and then focus on your main rig just doing what you really want it to do.

I'm not often seen recommending an Intel system, but for the 3D modelling work, I think the Pentium4 is the best single-processor solution presently available. Dual AthlonMPs would certainly be a formidable rendering box (just ask Industrial Light & Magic ) and would also open up the possibility of using 64-bit PCI cards such as server-caliber network cards and the better SCSI cards, so there are plusses to the AthlonMP dualie besides just processing power.

If you do pick a dual-AMD board, the Tyan Thunder K7X Pro is a pretty serious board with dual-channel Ultra320 optional, and an onboard server-class gigabit network adapter. It fits in the Antec Plus1080AMG and other Antec-alike cases of that size, and requires an EPS power supply such as the Enhance ENS-0246B or Antec TruePower EPS550. Everyone will yell "dead end solution" though, because this platform is at the tail end of its lifespan, not the beginning. If you like the idea of an AMD dualie, wait for dual Opterons on a workstation board.

You could also consider a dual-Xeon system too. The possibilities will drive you crazy But anyway, by the time you're ready to make your move, we may see some hard data on the Opteron/nForce3 and dual-Opteron/VIA K8T400M workstation setups.

 

[Chobits]

I think that since AMD is reaching the beginning of a new processor in a few months (Athlon64 and by then hopefully faster Opertons) you can't futureproof for AMD. This is what I would call the worst part of it. Because right now Socket A is really stable and cheap and a lot of the bugs with MOST chipsets are squashed. When Athlon64 will come out no doubt it will be expensive and the chipsets will probably have a few bugs that won't be known untill people start to use them en mass so the initial users will be "Guinea Pigs" so to say.

That is the thing with the latest and greatest technology - you pay a lot more, and usually there are bugs and kinks that haven't been ironed out yet.

What I would say is get stuff that you know is future proof - A cdrw, and a floppy

But I think that we are too close to a transition to really go and spend thousands of dollars on something like that...Had this been Last year or even last fall you would've received my blessing but not right now I guess

 

[dguy6789]

OK, i think i may end up getting either an opteron board, or an athlon 64, but when the athlon 64 comes out, what do you think will be faster, the fastest XP, or the fastest 64?

 

[Chobits]

Probably the Athlon64 since AMD doesn't want its flagship processor that has been delayed longer then I have lived...

But expect to pay a premium for such a new technology...

 

[grant2]

Want the ultimate "future proof" computer for $2000?

Buy a mediocre computer for $1000.

Then in 5 years, buy another mediocre computer for $1000.

It's a GUARANTEE that any P.O.S. you buy in 5 years will destroy your current $2000 fancy-pantsy cyber-phallus

 

[dguy6789]

FYI, this system will most likely have a sticker price of 5 - 6 grand kiddo. Im thinking of going P4 also. Does ASUS make a good P4 mainboard?

 

[dguy6789]

Oh and, what is a good P4 chipset? is this a good one?

http://www.aopen.com/products/mb/AX4CMax.htm


oh and 1 more thing, what kind of ddr would i need to feed an 800 Mhz FSB, all i can think of is dual channel ddr 400, effectively 800 mhz.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
FYI, this system will most likely have a sticker price of 5 - 6 grand kiddo. Im thinking of going P4 also. Does ASUS make a good P4 mainboard?

Then you might want Gigabyte's latest Pentium 4 motherboard based on the 875P chipset; the motherboard has just about everything you could want (though it might be lacking firewire, but you'd probably want something along the lines of a Matrox RTX.10 or 100 if you're really into video editing), including an Ultra320 SCSI controller built in (which would be nice for your 15kRPM SCSI hard drives).

Edit: You need what's known as PC3200 DDR, AFAIK that is the 400MHz stuff.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I'm not often seen recommending an Intel system, but for the 3D modelling work, I think the Pentium4 is the best single-processor solution presently available.

For the modeling end the vid card has a far greater impact then the CPU and for rendering the P4 tends to be the best only if the application supports SSE2. If you aren't running a rendering engines that has support built in, the Athlon still tends to whip the P4.

 

[GnomeCop]

I think what he meant to say was "What is the MOST future-proof-like computer I can build with $2000?"

for highest of high end, I'd go with intel

with $2000 only ... I'd go with AMD

they're both good

 

[p0b0ye]

Looks good, but I think yer going overboard with the hdd. Get a couple of raptors in raid0 for your main drive, and then a 200 gigger for some storage.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: p0b0ye
Looks good, but I think yer going overboard with the hdd. Get a couple of raptors in raid0 for your main drive, and then a 200 gigger for some storage.

Be sure to get a DVD-RW or tape drive for backup... RAID 0 has no redundancy (thus it isn't technically RAID), and IMHO it has no place in an expensive, top-of-the-line, system. If you only have $2000, a hardware RAID 5 controller might be a bit too much, but if you're spending more than that you definitely should get one.

 

[bgeh]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
FYI, this system will most likely have a sticker price of 5 - 6 grand kiddo. Im thinking of going P4 also. Does ASUS make a good P4 mainboard?

if you are considering that much money, seriously consider the 2 or even 4 way Opterons(not so sure about the 4 way Opterons price though)

 

[dguy6789]

I was thinking of that as well, but i have not seen or heard of any 4 cpu opteron boards out yet, nor have i even seen an opteron and a opteron board for sale. I wonder, how fast would 8 2Ghz opterons be?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
I was thinking of that as well, but i have not seen or heard of any 4 cpu opteron boards out yet, nor have i even seen an opteron and a opteron board for sale. I wonder, how fast would 8 2Ghz opterons be?

Blisteringly fast and expensive. Look up 8-way Xeon systems on Ebay. Very pricey for old, used stuff.

 

[grant2]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
FYI, this system will most likely have a sticker price of 5 - 6 grand kiddo. Im thinking of going P4 also. Does ASUS make a good P4 mainboard?

Ok, spend $3000 on a computer today and $3000 on a computer in 5 years.

The 2nd computer will still destroy anything you can buy today for $6000.