Building a DVR/HTPC (First Question, CPU?)

[essential]

I want to build a media computer with the primary function of being a DVR with one of those new Ceton 4 Tuner cards. I also want it capable of streaming netflix/hulu. I was planning on having a stand-alone video card that can do audio over HDMI as well, unless there is a mobo that has video/audio over HDMI and is powerful enough to handle it all, but I haven't started researching mobo's yet.

I'm starting by looking at CPUs, originally I was thinking Core i5 or Core i3, and wasn't sure which to go with because I'm not actually sure what the power requirements are for something like this.

I was looking around newegg at the Core i5's and Core i3's, and also noticed there is a 35w notebook Core i3 processor.

Any recommendations? The notebook Core i3 is over $100 more than Desktop Core i3's but takes much less power, and possibly runs cooler, is the extra money worth it for something that might be running 24/7.

Is there a bare minimum CPU I need for a media device, or are all the Core i5's and Core i3's more than capable of handling anything in a media PC?

Thanks.

 

[Patranus]

Depends on what you *really* want to do.
Most MoBo/Video Cards will decode video withe hardware.
If you want to transcode video that will (in many cases) require a better CPU.

If you can find a C2D MoBo still with HDMI than I would get a cheap ass C2D, otherwise go with the i3 unless you are transcoding video.

(Yes you can get a sweat MoBo that has HDMI)

I would like to point you here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

specifically
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972

 

[essential]

When I get home from work I will read through those threads, thank you Patranus. One question based on your comment. I do not plan to transcode at all in the general sense, but I did read about WMC plug-ins/software that can scan your DVRed shows and remove the commercials. I am not sure if transcoding is involved in that process at all. If it is, then I guess I have to step up the CPU possibly.

 

[BornStar]

I believe any of the i3 or i5 desktop processors would run 7MC just fine. The full specs of my HTPC are in the link in my sig but I have an E6750 with 2GB of RAM (looking to upgrade this just for piece of mind) and a Radeon 5450 and it hasn't had any problems running anything I've asked it to (watching a blu-ray while recording two HD and one SD show, I'm sure I could watch something on an extender at the same time). I have a InfiniTV 4 on preorder and am not concerned about my HTPC handling it although it fitting in my case is a different issue.

Basically my point is I wouldn't get too hung up on the processor, any desktop i3 is more powerful than my C2D. Also, I believe that the HD graphics integrated on the i3 will bitstream audio over HDMI and will be able to offload BD playback. If I were building a HTPC today I would use an i3 with integrated graphics, 4GB of RAM, and a very large HDD for recordings.

 

[JasonE4]

Haven't those Ceton cards been delayed for awhile? I'd really like to get one of those too.

 

[jdjbuffalo]

Basically my point is I wouldn't get too hung up on the processor, any desktop i3 is more powerful than my C2D. Also, I believe that the HD graphics integrated on the i3 will bitstream audio over HDMI and will be able to offload BD playback. If I were building a HTPC today I would use an i3 with integrated graphics, 4GB of RAM, and a very large HDD for recordings.

The i3s work very well over HDMI. I've been using it for all the standard HTPC things except for the DVR (see below for the reason). It works great and as long as you get a H55/H57 motherboard you don't need a discrete graphics card.

My system is very quite and uses very little power. While sleeping it uses less than 10 Watts. At idle it's around 40 Watts and at max it's around 90 Watts. In short, the system uses very little power and does a great job with everything I throw at it. See my sig for details on my build.

Haven't those Ceton cards been delayed for awhile? I'd really like to get one of those too.

Yes, they have been delayed by about 5 months so far. They are supposed to be shipping in the next few weeks.

I'll be picking one up soon.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Let us all know how the Ceton cards do. I know I have been interested in them. My main concern is how the DRM works on them and how restrictive they might be in actual use. If I can't stream to other PC's, media extenders, or game consoles, it is worthless to me.

 

[Operandi]

Any Athlon II X2 with a 785G chipset or higher is more than fast enough and saves you the need for a graphics card. I would prefer AMD's onboard GPU vs. Intel's.

The stock AMD HS/F is also quite a bit quieter than the stock Intel.

 

[BornStar]

Let us all know how the Ceton cards do. I know I have been interested in them. My main concern is how the DRM works on them and how restrictive they might be in actual use. If I can't stream to other PC's, media extenders, or game consoles, it is worthless to me.

Some of that is going to be related to your cable company and whether they set the copy once bit. If they don't then you'll be able to play it on anything that can play the .wtv format. If they set the copy once bit then you're only going to be able to play it on the HTPC that made the recording and any extenders attached to that HTPC. I hope to get my card really soon, I preordered back in March and Comcast is going all digital here in another couple of weeks.

 

[jdjbuffalo]

Any Athlon II X2 with a 785G chipset or higher is more than fast enough and saves you the need for a graphics card. I would prefer AMD's onboard GPU vs. Intel's.

The stock AMD HS/F is also quite a bit quieter than the stock Intel.

I've got to disagree on this point.

If you're talking about just a generic computer then sure, an AMD one would be fine. But for an HTPC, you need HDMI output plus, preferrably, bitstreaming audio to get the most out of Blu-rays and other HD media. To my knowledge there aren't any AMD motherboard solutions that support those requirements.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I've got to disagree on this point.

If you're talking about just a generic computer then sure, an AMD one would be fine. But for an HTPC, you need HDMI output plus, preferrably, bitstreaming audio to get the most out of Blu-rays and other HD media. To my knowledge there aren't any AMD motherboard solutions that support those requirements.

Which is why I still recommend getting an ATI HD5XXX series graphics card. But I am of the "make it big, with huge heatsinks, so it is quiet" camp. I am using a Powercolor SCS3 5750 (passive heatsink).

 

[electroju]

Like what Operandi have said. Go with AMD. They can do the same thing and have better graphics compared to Intel. To include what Operandi have said, AMD is cheaper overall. Intel might the fastest at this time, but AMD is better for HTPC. Also do not look at TDP because this is a false way of power consumption.

The bare minimum for the processor depends what you are going to do. Flash consumes a lot of resources, so I suggest a fast processor such as an AMD Athlon II 250.

If you want to playback HD videos with ease, Linux is a lot better. The reason for this is Linux has less requirements to process HD videos. It requires a video card that supports VA-API or VDPAU, then you are ready to handle HD videos. The processor resources that are used is less than 20%. In Windows, you will need to have codecs that support HD decoding and you will need to use software that is compatible to run with your video card. Windows has a lot of layers for HD to work with fewest processor resources.

CableCARD type of tuners for computers depends on the compatibility with your cable service provider. I suggest talk to your cable service provider to get information what hardware are compatible with their CableCARD or else you will have a lot of problems. It is probably best to use a cable box for tuning to the desire channel instead of using an internal card. Some cable box models includes a IEEE-1394 or USB, so you can capture through that. Stand alone units works the best these days.

A lot of people think they should add a TV like remote to control a HTPC. This does not work for HTPC. I suggest the following to make it easier to control.

Adesso Wireless SlimTouch Ergo Touchpad Keyboard (WKB-4100UB)
http://www.adesso.com/en/home/keyboards/84-wkb-4100ub.html

Logitech diNovo Mini
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/3848

I prefer devices that uses standard size batteries to make the device last long as it should.

If you insist on selecting Intel processors, you do not need to find a motherboard that contains an H55. This chip set has the ability to flip-flop between discreet graphics and on-board. For a HTPC, this feature is useless. Also it is useless in notebooks if you select a model that does not have two video cards. You are wasting your money when using a motherboard that uses H55 and using only one video card. The best video card is nVidia because of their software support in any operating system is the best. I have used ATI over the years and their software is pathetic. I strongly recommend to use Linux if you are going to use ATI graphic cards because the Xorg or third-party drivers works a lot better than what ATI can write.

I've got to disagree on this point.

If you're talking about just a generic computer then sure, an AMD one would be fine. But for an HTPC, you need HDMI output plus, preferrably, bitstreaming audio to get the most out of Blu-rays and other HD media. To my knowledge there aren't any AMD motherboard solutions that support those requirements.

You sound like an Intel fan boy that has been left in the cave too long. Since 780G, it supports HDMI output and as well as digital audio over HDMI. Bit streaming is none sense if you understand that anything happens in digital land will not affect the sound quality. If you are using inferior software, yes you will have problems with audio. Decoding audio into LPCM can be done with out any problems like what you are saying. At this time using a PC to playback movies is sad because it does not have the same features that stand alone units includes. For TV show watching, a HTPC is OK, but not the best. A HTPC is good at displaying web content, but it has limits of its capability. Though not all AV receivers or surround sound processors does not have enough power to decode an 8 channel audio from a movie and be able to process audio using custom environment settings like Audyssey, so LPCM might have to be used.

The original poster did not say they he or she will be playing back Blu-Ray movies. The original poster said that they will be using their HTPC for web content and TV show recording.

 

[Operandi]

I was not aware that the Intel GPU did bitstreaming. Even so I would say its a completely theoretical advantage unless you have thousands of $$ worth speakers. What most people consider high-end speakers (which is mid-fi really) don't have low enough distortion or range to take advantage of what AC3 or DTS has to offer let alone these new formats.

As to the some of the other points brought up I can say that a the slowest Athlon II (the 240) is able to do run Hulu Desktop at "high" quality settings with a few apps running the background no problem.

And personally I use my iMon AV style remote almost all the time with my HTPC and only use my Lenovo mini keyboard/remote when I use the browser and Hulu Desktop.

 

[Emulex]

essentio overstock.com i5-630, H55, bitstreaming on board, enough horsepower to softdecode anything. plays blu-ray at 2560x1600 on two monitors (two videos) no problem. 30% off weekend ago $379 shipped. i'd ditch the main 1TB and swap in a small ssd for noise. oem royalty licensing on 7 so no b/s there.

I'd like to try an amd. What should i look for the same price structure. i believe quad core would be better than dual core (i5-630) so as long as its stock speed (no o/c thanks) i'll give it a chance. i need to build another one. no video card please - going to make an ultra thin home theatre look the antec micro fusion 350 is a little too tall.

 

[vshah]

i just built a cheap xmbc box, celeron e3300, 2gb ram,with a radeon 5450 for decoding support. xbmc works great under windows 7, with full bitstreaming. i'm using the dsplayer release of xbmc. i'd go for i3 if you have the cash though

 

[Patranus]

Which is why I still recommend getting an ATI HD5XXX series graphics card. But I am of the "make it big, with huge heatsinks, so it is quiet" camp. I am using a Powercolor SCS3 5750 (passive heatsink).

The thing is that integrated graphics on Intel boards are more than capable to stream video and decode HD.

There is no need for the added expense of a video card. Hell, I played around with a Zotac board with an Atom 330 and integrated Nvidia GeForce 9400. It was more than capable at decoding HD (video and audio).

The biggest mistake people make when building a dedicated HTPC is over building the machine.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I've got to agree with Operandi. I went with an Athlon II x4 and a 785 board with HDMI out when I rebuilt my HTPC earlier this year. I chose the x4 because I do a significant amount of transcoding (both conversions of recorded shows AND streaming DVDs to Xboxes/PS3s) and felt the two additional cores would suit me well. I didn't see the need to go for an Intel quad or to spend the extra money on a Phenom, as the benchmarks between the Phenom II and Athlon II indicated the performance difference wasn't enough to justify the significant price jump.

 

[essential]

Thanks for all the responses, you've given me a lot to think and read about. After jdjbuffalo's post about the H55/57 I started reading about those, and honestly really liked the idea of not needing a video card, it would be nice to just need to buy a cpu/mobo/ram/ps/hd and the only card be the Ceton.

I found this article after googling some stuff and thought I found my direction:
http://homeservershow.com/core-i3530-htpc.html

However, Operandi and electro make great points about AMD as well, so I def have more reading to do. Either way I think i'm going to start with onboard graphics, and add a dedicated card after if needed.

Secondary question:
I plan on installing MCEBuddy or something like that which removes the commercials (but i'm not sure if transcoding is involved). Does that change my requirements at all? Are the Core i3/i5 or AMD Athlon II's still enough if transcoding or converting is involved?

 

[Plugers]

I have a 4850e /780g combo and it works great for blueray. I have a Zotac ION 330 as a bedroom HTPC, it works great also.

For the living room I use a full size DiNovo for when I need a keyboard and the Dell branded Gyration remote for regular usage.

I bought 2 Gyrations for the other rooms later as amazon have 20% off at the time.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Secondary question:
I plan on installing MCEBuddy or something like that which removes the commercials (but i'm not sure if transcoding is involved). Does that change my requirements at all? Are the Core i3/i5 or AMD Athlon II's still enough if transcoding or converting is involved?

Transcoding would utilize more cores. If you decide to go the AMD route, I wouldn't go with anything under a quad core, as you can get them for around the $100 mark.

The answer to your question, though, depends on many variables. My old HTPC was an Athlon XP 2500. I would schedule transcoding to occur at night, between 10 PM and 9 AM the next morning. Now, however, with my Athlon II quad core, I can do it pretty much right after a show has been recorded and it only takes a few minutes.