Question building a computer later this month, some feedback?

[QueBert]

I was set to go with Ryzen 7000, but the more I'm reading up the more I'm thinking Raptor Lake. I liked the gen 5 m.2 on the X670e boards, but there are no gen 5 drives out. And what I buy will be my system for the next 7 years. So I probably wouldn't be adding gen 5 NVME, assuming there's even any noticeable real-world difference. I'm looking at the Asus Rog Strix z790-A Gaming Wifi D4 with a 13700k. I know AMD had said a few future gen cpu's will work on AM5 boards. But if I'm going to stick with the build for 5+ years by then I'm sure I'd probably want a newer chipset MB if I upgraded my CPU. I priced out 2 builds on pcpartpicker and was shocked they were so close, AM5 $1084 and Raptor Lake $1132. 7700x/13700k, 32gb (ddr4 for the Intel) Asus ROG board for both. I figured one would be a good deal cheaper and BOOM I'd have my answer. Like I said I won't be upgrading for who knows how long and right now the benchmarks I've seen the 13700k beats the 7700x in most category.

I read a few articles on DDR4 vs DDR5 and it doesn't seem like it matters much with current chipsets and cpus. And fast DDR4 was even edging it out in some of the benchmarks. But I know synthetic benchmarks don't = real world. And I probably wouldn't notice a difference. Strangely, the Z790 MB I'm looking at's ddr4 whereas Asus has a bunch of much cheaper Z790 boards that are DDR5.

I did a ton of reading on AM5 and LGA1700, I know there's no right answer here, both are great and both sides have an army of fanboys. But I just can't make my mind up so I thought I'd ask here. Maybe there is a reason or 2 I'm overlooking that'll get brought up. And if I manage to get 3 replies with AMD or Intel that's what I'll buy. I'm ordering around Xmas because I was told BF like deals are probably gonna pop up around then. If I don't get any replies by then, I guess I'll go to my backup plan and flip a coin 3 times lol.

If anyone has any thoughts here, thanks.

 

[QueBert]

That's a beautiful case and was (is?) on my list, along with the O-11 Mini. And it's gotta be one of the easiest cases to build in. I think I maybe avoided it because it would be too simple of a build. I wanted a challenge. But you know what they say, be careful what you ask for.

 

[QueBert]

The last piece got ordered today. I had to get an advance for next month to cover the 50% I went over my budget. So basically I'll be eating ramen and Kraft for a month, and maybe if I'm lucky some sort of meat once a week. But I'll have a new PC. And I did some Googling, while not great or even good, on the UHD 770 it looks like I can play CS:GO with 30 FPS GOODNESS! And there's zero possibility the case will fit on my "desk" (a DJ table) so I might push buying the GPU back another month so I can get a motorized standing desk. I did some reading and was shocked at how cheap you can DIY one for compared to the name brands.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Mostly NZXT 7700X build.

Pretty, no?

GPU and RAM sticks stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[QueBert]

View attachment 73667

Mostly NZXT 7700X build.

Pretty, no?

GPU and RAM sticks stick out like a sore thumb.

Very nice, there's lots of white RAM dunno why they didn't get some. But with how much the few amn white video card out there cost I don't blame them for not getting one lol. That AIO looks outstanding. I'm not really a fan of just the outer-ring of the fans being RGB, looks weird. NZXT has some beautiful cases, this one and the H510 were on my original list. Hell, if I'd went with the H510, an ASRock MB and the NZXT T120 cooler I could have afforded an A770

I still plan to do a white build one day. Before I switched to the black build, the Keyboard, Mouse, and Headset I had already ordered last month are all white. Also probably gonna go with a white top for the standing desk I'm putting together next month. So it'll kinda be a half white build.

 

[QueBert]

Case wasn't nearly as hard to build in as I was expecting. Cable management? I need individually sleeved cables, even then holy moly it's going to be pretty rough. I couldn't wait to work on it today even tho the last component (RAM) won't be here until tomorrow. I hope I can get it in because I'm not removing the motherboard again lol. My original plan was to build without the socket contact frame I bought so I could check the temps. Then pull it all apart and put the frame on so I could re-benchmark and see the difference in temps. I came to my senses and installed the frame and will just assume the temps are a solid 8-10c lower lol. They're not needed but it was cheap and a good way to give you better temps. Was simple to install too.

It's insane how this is the biggest ITX case probably ever, yet it still feels a bit cramped to build in it. Way to go Asus, and pre cable management the insides of mine look tuuuurrible ha. I'll probably soil my boxers if it turns on and posts on the 1st attempt after putting the ram in. My last build was 10 years ago and I felt the rust. Also, this has about 4x the cables of any system I've built. Some company needs to make a MB connector that can power fans and supply RGB to them.

 

[QueBert]

UGHS I really seemed to jinx myself by saying I'm not taking the MB out again. Got the ram and in both slots the DRAM Q-Led light stays on I tried both slots with no luck. I would try a bios flashback as it seems some Z690's need a newer BIOS to support 13th gen Intel. But the AIO isn't powering on so I'm pretty sure doing a BIOS flasback without that working will leave the CPU toast. Now I have to pull it all apart and start over. The CPU light blinks and goes to DRAM so I'm assuming the MB's okay. But I know you should never assume. I also cleared the BIOS

Yes, I know a smart person would have tested it outside of the case 1st to make sure it works. I just was building and hoping for the best. I can flash the BIOS without a CPU but that stupid frame I installed will have to be removed 1st, I might try that with the s##t still in the case 1st.

Now I'm remembering why I don't build new PC's often anymore lol.

 

[In2Photos]

Yes, I know a smart person would have tested it outside of the case 1st to make sure it works. I just was building and hoping for the best. I can flash the BIOS without a CPU but that stupid frame I installed will have to be removed 1st, I might try that with the s##t still in the case 1st.

Now I'm remembering why I don't build new PC's often anymore lol.

ALWAYS build it outside the case first! I don't care how optimistic you are.

 

[QueBert]

ALWAYS build it outside the case first! I don't care how optimistic you are.

I know this I just, ugh. Anyways I took everything out and with just the CPU, memory, 24 pin and 8 pin CPU cables plugged in it's still stuck with the dram light on. Tried both memory slots made no difference. Since I was able to do a bios flashback I'm hoping the MB's good and maybe it's just bad ram. I only;y bought 1 stick so I can't even test with a 2nd one ugh. I also took the CPU off and checked the socket for bent pins. Everything looked good.

I bought the memory from Provantage, never bought from them before but if the memory is bad I hope they'll exchange it with no hassle. Might be worth it for me to see if either of the local pc repair places would check the ram for me for cheap. THE CPU light on the MB lights up and turns off then it goes to check dram. So I'm thinking the CPU and MB are both fine. Daamit I have some terrible luck.

Ironically, the RGB on the ram turns on as if to taunt me, stupid RGB build...

 

[In2Photos]

You're not unlucky. I think this is more common than you think. See my post from a recent build. Was this DDR5? If so, it takes a while to train the memory.

Got my daughter's new build up and running.

7600X w/ ID cooling SE-226-XT
32GB Gskill Flare 6000 C36
Gigabyte B650 Aorus Elite AX
ASRock 6800XT Taichi
Deep Cool 750w PSU
Solidigm P41 M.2 drives
Lian Li 216 case

Build went smoothly except for 2 things, I didn't have a screwdriver long enough to mount the cooler, thought I did, had to borrow one from my neighbor. The other one was a bit more frustrating and I'm not 100% sure what fixed it.

For some reason the system wouldn't post. It was stuck on DRAM. I tried 2 sticks, 1 stick, different slots, clearing CMOS. Nothing worked. So I did a BIOS update. Still couldn't get it to post with 1 stick. So I swapped sticks and cleared the CMOS again and it finally posted. Added the second stick and no post again. Swapped the second stick into the first slot and it posted. Added the second stick back and it posted again. I know these systems need to train the memory but I left plenty of time each reboot. I don't know why it gave me so much trouble but once it posted with 2 sticks it's been fine.

First boot with the GPU had no video output. Rebooted and it worked and has worked fine ever since.

The 160mm fans on the Lian Li case move a ton of air! It was also very easy to build in.

Still have some tuning and testing to do, but she has already played a few games with extremely smooth gameplay.

Why only 1 stick? You're losing out on performance by using 1 stick.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Ironically, the RGB on the ram turns on as if to taunt me, stupid RGB build...

How long did you wait? When I first tried to boot up i5-12400 with DDR4-3200, the CPU fan started running but no display for over a minute. I was like, what's wrong??? Then suddenly the display came on and into the BIOS screen it went.

You gotta wait!

 

[QueBert]

HUMMM I haven't built a computer since my 3570k, what the hell did I just read about with DDR5 you need to leave the system on while

You're not unlucky. I think this is more common than you think. See my post from a recent build. Was this DDR5? If so, it takes a while to train the memory.


Why only 1 stick? You're losing out on performance by using 1 stick.

oddly enough I just was reading on the memory training thing, sounds like that could be it. But I don't think my AIO's functioning and I don't want to leave the system on for a minute without that working. The AIO fans aren't working (aside from RGB) and I don't hear the pump. I know PC's have shutdown protection for when the CPU gets too hot, but I'm imagining that wouldn't apply to a system that's technically not working. I don't want to risk it, and I don't have a normal heatsink I could use just to see if the memory needs to be training. I saw a few people saying it took them almost 15 minutes.

Maybe I should go read up on if it'll shut down before it overheats. Either that or I buy a cheapy Heatsink just for this.

I only got 1 stick because ITX only has 2, and I do want 64 for video editing and stuff. So in like 3 months I'll buy another stick. I know it'll be slower, but I'm coming from a 3570k so I don't think I'll notice any slowness I'm pretty positive 32 would have been all I'll ever need, but I thought 64 wouldn't be a bad thing. I didn't buy 2x32 to start because I had gone 50% over my budget on this build. I literally have $8 left in my bank until I get paid again.

 

[QueBert]

How long did you wait? When I first tried to boot up i5-12400 with DDR4-3200, the CPU fan started running but no display for over a minute. I was like, what's wrong??? Then suddenly the display came on and into the BIOS screen it went.

You gotta wait!

I know the 13th gen chips run super hot so I'm paranoid about leaving it on for even a minute with my lack of functioning CPU cooling. I am currently Gooling to see if I should do it, or if even a non working PC will shut down with the temps. I mean it's kinda working all my pretty (and stupid) RGB lights are in full swing when I turn it on lol.

Hell I'm paranoid leaving it on for 15 seconds knowing how fast these new cpu's can burn up.

 

[In2Photos]

What AIO and where did you plug it in on the motherboard? Where did you plug in the fans? Some motherboards won't boot if you don't have a CPU cooler plugged in the correct location.

The problem with buying memory sticks at different times is getting a matching set. Hopefully the kit you bought is available when you go to buy the second stick.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I know the 13th gen chips run super hot

No, with adequate cooling, they run fine. They only run hot when running some extreme benchmark for long periods of time and the BIOS by default is set to max power limit. Besides, they will throttle if they reach beyond 100 degrees C and prevent permanent damage.

 

[QueBert]

What AIO and where did you plug it in on the motherboard? Where did you plug in the fans? Some motherboards won't boot if you don't have a CPU cooler plugged in the correct location.

The problem with buying memory sticks at different times is getting a matching set. Hopefully the kit you bought is available when you go to buy the second stick.

Asus Ryujin 2 240 RGB, it hooks to the MB via USB, the fan controller that comes with it is SATA powered so you don't need to plug a 4 pin into the MB to use or control the fans.The fans plug into the controller but the controller doesn't have a fan out. Neither of the fans spin when I turn it on, but that's because it's not booting, I could plug the fans directly into the MB but that's the least of my problems right now lol. Right now I have nothing plugged into the CPU fan header, and I didn't even think of that. I could try plugging 1 of the case fans into that. But that still leaves me with a pump that's not on and me not wanting to leave the PC on while it might just be training the memory.

No, with adequate cooling, they run fine. They only run hot when running some extreme benchmark for long periods of time and the BIOS by default is set to max power limit. Besides, they will throttle if they reach beyond 100 degrees C and prevent permanent damage.

So it will throttle even tho the system doesn't even start to POST? If that's the case I'll go leave it on.

 

[In2Photos]

So no fans or pump but the RGB works? Nice Asus! The first thing the AIO instructions tell you to do after booting the first time is going to the BIOS to tell the computer to ignore fan speed. This indicates that you should at least be able to get into the BIOS.

What motherboard do you have?

Do you have SATA power connected? The RGB signal is likely just passed through the controller like a splitter so that doesn't indicate that you have power to the controller.

 

[BoomerD]

UGHS I really seemed to jinx myself by saying I'm not taking the MB out again. Got the ram and in both slots the DRAM Q-Led light stays on I tried both slots with no luck. I would try a bios flashback as it seems some Z690's need a newer BIOS to support 13th gen Intel. But the AIO isn't powering on so I'm pretty sure doing a BIOS flasback without that working will leave the CPU toast. Now I have to pull it all apart and start over. The CPU light blinks and goes to DRAM so I'm assuming the MB's okay. But I know you should never assume. I also cleared the BIOS

Yes, I know a smart person would have tested it outside of the case 1st to make sure it works. I just was building and hoping for the best. I can flash the BIOS without a CPU but that stupid frame I installed will have to be removed 1st, I might try that with the s##t still in the case 1st.

Now I'm remembering why I don't build new PC's often anymore lol.

Yeah, try flashing the BIOS before you trar things apart.

 

[QueBert]

So no fans or pump but the RGB works? Nice Asus! The first thing the AIO instructions tell you to do after booting the first time is going to the BIOS to tell the computer to ignore fan speed. This indicates that you should at least be able to get into the BIOS.

What motherboard do you have?

Do you have SATA power connected? The RGB signal is likely just passed through the controller like a splitter so that doesn't indicate that you have power to the controller.

MB's Asus ROG Z690-I, I have the SATA from the AIO controller hooked up, I agree about there maybe not being power to the controller, that's why I was worried about leaving it on to see if the ram training thing was happening but....

I took a silly needless risk and decided I'd leave it on for 30 seconds. I figured it might auto throttle and shut down even with the system not working, and if not maybe thje heatsink from the pump would cool for half a minute. 20 seconds in the light switched to white and I quickly shut off the system when I realized I didn't have the HDMI plugged in ha. I didn't have anything else plugged into the MB so I'm in the process of redoing all that.

I guess all I needed was to not worry so much and be patient. I know I haven't seen the screen come on yet, but the fact it got past the yellow light after 10 hours of playing with it has me feeling like it might actually be working.

Thank you for your help, these forums have a lot of awesome users.

 

[igor_kavinski]

it got past the yellow light after 10 hours of playing with it has me feeling like it might actually be working.

Maybe next time, tell us your plan before wasting 10 hours?

 

[QueBert]

Maybe next time, tell us your plan before wasting 10 hours?

I like to at least TRY to figure stuff out before asking for help. Maybe 10 hours was too long, but at least I didn't try 1 time and when it didn't work come asking for help lol. I use to build computers way before the internet so I couldn't just ask for help and get replies in minutes. The best would be to dial a BBS and post a message, but most of the ones I was on had a single line so it was unlike I'd get help that same day, if ever.

It's coming on, and now all I have to do is take the MB back out of the case and plug in all the connectors that I forgot to plug in that I can't reach with the connectors with my fat fingers. Then put the MB back and hope it still works. I really need to invest in some needle nose pliers. It's just 2 things I can plug in so it'll pain me to take it app apart again just for that.

This is why I only build a computer once a decade now lol. You've been very helpful lately, very much appreciated sir.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I like to at least TRY to figure stuff out before asking for help.

But we shouldn't really have to try to figure stuff out. These mobo makers should've put a big message somewhere on a quickstart guide that memory training is a thing. When I encountered it, I thought maybe because the mobo was cheap (ASUS H610M), the CPU had trouble communicating with cheaper components being used.

 

[QueBert]

But we shouldn't really have to try to figure stuff out. These mobo makers should've put a big message somewhere on a quickstart guide that memory training is a thing. When I encountered it, I thought maybe because the mobo was cheap (ASUS H610M), the CPU had trouble communicating with cheaper components being used.

I think at the very least it would be nice if a message popped up so you knew what it was doing. I've built 100+ computers, no DDR4 or 5 ones so I hadn't seen this until today. I read about it in the past but it didn't hit me until hour 8 (of course) And Asus's manuals are pitiful, they can't put the needed info in, I wouldn't ever expect them to add bonus shit. The AIO one doesn't even tell you to plug the SATA power in, which I'm pretty sure will lead to the pump burning up since you don't hook a 4 pin to the MB's pump header. I read it 4 times thinking I was just not seeing it. I know better, but a lot of 1st-time builders who go with an AIO will follow the manual page for page and still burn up their new AIO and have no idea why. They charge extra for the name Asus they should try harder for documentation. At least it has a large LCD screen so I can put Meme gifs on it.

And even tho the system turns on, I haven't installed Windows yet, so I still might be far from in the clear. I spent an hour trying to cable manage this case, and ended up settling for just having everything plugged in.

Pretty sure you and Boomer both recommended against this case ha.

 

[BoomerD]

I think at the very least it would be nice if a message popped up so you knew what it was doing. I've built 100+ computers, no DDR4 or 5 ones so I hadn't seen this until today. I read about it in the past but it didn't hit me until hour 8 (of course) And Asus's manuals are pitiful, they can't put the needed info in, I wouldn't ever expect them to add bonus shit. The AIO one doesn't even tell you to plug the SATA power in, which I'm pretty sure will lead to the pump burning up since you don't hook a 4 pin to the MB's pump header. I read it 4 times thinking I was just not seeing it. I know better, but a lot of 1st-time builders who go with an AIO will follow the manual page for page and still burn up their new AIO and have no idea why. They charge extra for the name Asus they should try harder for documentation. At least it has a large LCD screen so I can put Meme gifs on it.

And even tho the system turns on, I haven't installed Windows yet, so I still might be far from in the clear. I spent an hour trying to cable manage this case, and ended up settling for just having everything plugged in.

Pretty sure you and Boomer both recommended against this case ha.

Just went to the ASUS website. That's one of the most pathetic "quick start guides" I've seen in a long time. NOTHING mentioned about the SATA power cable, although they DO show it in a couple of pics. However, I also found this:

Installation of ROG RYUJIN II series AIO water cooling | Official Support | ROG Global

rog.asus.com

Just below the middle it tells you to plug in the SATA cable.

 

[QueBert]

Just went to the ASUS website. That's one of the most pathetic "quick start guides" I've seen in a long time. NOTHING mentioned about the SATA power cable, although they DO show it in a couple of pics. However, I also found this:

Installation of ROG RYUJIN II series AIO water cooling | Official Support | ROG Global

rog.asus.com

Just below the middle it tells you to plug in the SATA cable.

LOL so they leave it out of the manual, which people who buy it are going to use, but include it on a webpage. That makes no sense. I do love how they left out telling you to plug it in, but in the drawings, it shows it connected.

I will say the system's so damn fast, VNME benchmarked over 7000MB and after some Googling, apparently, my CPU idling @ 85f isn't too concerning. I still have all the panels off so the air flow's better than it'll ever be. Seeing 87 just sitting there has me kinda scared to put the panels on lol. I know this is only a 240mm AIO and it's not a top performer, but I really expected to see better temps. I even swapped the intel bracket for the contact frame all the geekie people are saying you need. And I followed the installation directions from the guy on Gamers Nexus (not Steve) to a tee. In involved turning each screw a quarter of a turn until they were all tightened. Used thermal paste of course. If the plate made a difference then holy hell I bought the wrong case (as Boomer tried to point out to me lol)

I need to go and play with the AIO to see if I can get the temps better, if it's 85 idle it's gonna be 100+ when I game. That can't be good

 

[Tech Junky]

geekie people are saying you need.

It's all hype when new things come out. Same thing happened with ADL screaming that it would need to LC or it will fry. Idle at ambient temps is normal. Under load is when you see the benefits of your cooling choices. Of course you can set your temp curves lower to engage the cooling and bring them down further but that just leads to more noise and quicker failure over time. My cheap $50 air cooler handles ADL at max stress and keeps it at 150F/50C or less. I could get better temps by delidding it and using a bracket but, there's no real need.