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Building a 3D Workstation

M

mleonard

Member
I?m looking to build a new 3D workstation and would like some advice on the system. This new computer will be used for modeling and rendering using 3D Studio Max 7. Other important programs are AutoCad 2007, Photoshop, and Illustrator. I would also like it to handle video & multimedia pretty well. Sound is of some importance, but I know I?ll have to give in a bit. I?ll likely buy the components from Monarch Computer and I?ve based this system on what they sell as their ?Empro? series. Here?s what I?ve come up with so far?

MB Supermicro H8DC8 $482
CPU (2x) AMD Operton 260 HE Dual-Core 1.6Ghz (940) 2 X $441 = $882
MEM (4x) OCZSSER4001G 1GB DDR (400) PC-3200 4 X $110 = $440
FAN (2x) Thermaltake AMD Venus 7+ 2 X $13 = $26
VID ATI FireGL V2500 256MB DDR3/PCI-E $425
Case Lian-Li PC-V1200B $219
PSU Thermaltake Toughpower W0117Ru $159
----------------------
$2633
Already own:
HD (2x) WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM SATA-150 Raptor (RAID-0 configuration)
HD More ATA Western Digital storage for swap, archive
LCD Dell 24? LCD Widescreen
--- Suitable DVD, FD, CD/RW drives

So? I?d like to bring the cost down a bit, around $2k if possible and get the best bang for my buck. A couple questions about memory setup on a Dual-CPU, should each CPU have its own dual-channel memory? On the Operton chip, what is the HE before the Dual-Core? And lastly, for the graphics card, I?ve probably underestimated this, but?.. I?ve been using the ATI FireGL line of cards and heard a lot about the NVidia Quadro cards, but they seem so damn expensive. Should I consider Quadro, how about SLI? Thanks, any feedback is greatly appreciated.
 
Originally posted by: mleonard
I?m looking to build a new 3D workstation and would like some advice on the system. This new computer will be used for modeling and rendering using 3D Studio Max 7. Other important programs are AutoCad 2007, Photoshop, and Illustrator. I would also like it to handle video & multimedia pretty well. Sound is of some importance, but I know I?ll have to give in a bit. I?ll likely buy the components from Monarch Computer and I?ve based this system on what they sell as their ?Empro? series. Here?s what I?ve come up with so far?

MB Supermicro H8DC8 $482
CPU (2x) AMD Operton 260 HE Dual-Core 1.6Ghz (940) 2 X $441 = $882
MEM (4x) OCZSSER4001G 1GB DDR (400) PC-3200 4 X $110 = $440
FAN (2x) Thermaltake AMD Venus 7+ 2 X $13 = $26
VID ATI FireGL V2500 256MB DDR3/PCI-E $425
Case Lian-Li PC-V1200B $219
PSU Thermaltake Toughpower W0117Ru $159
----------------------
$2633
Already own:
HD (2x) WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM SATA-150 Raptor (RAID-0 configuration)
HD More ATA Western Digital storage for swap, archive
LCD Dell 24? LCD Widescreen
--- Suitable DVD, FD, CD/RW drives

So? I?d like to bring the cost down a bit, around $2k if possible and get the best bang for my buck. A couple questions about memory setup on a Dual-CPU, should each CPU have its own dual-channel memory? On the Operton chip, what is the HE before the Dual-Core? And lastly, for the graphics card, I?ve probably underestimated this, but?.. I?ve been using the ATI FireGL line of cards and heard a lot about the NVidia Quadro cards, but they seem so damn expensive. Should I consider Quadro, how about SLI? Thanks, any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

2k won't get you much for a graphic workstation.

yes there are separate memory slots for each cpu on most mobos.

HE means it takes less power and puts out less heat. This also costs more. If you don't care about power consumption and heat output (which isn't much on the regular non-HE ones), then get regular.

I would defenitly use quadro. They seem to kick ati's @$$ in most tests, if you can afford it. Quadro 4500X2 anyone? 😀

SLI would be beneficial, however you will need 2 quadro cards excaclty the same, and a mobo that uses the nforce4 2200 pro chipset.
 
Just wondering why the preference for Monarch as opposed to Newegg or ZipZoomFly? Also, is there a pressing need for the workstation now or would waiting for Conroe be better given the big advantage Conroe has over AMD for this type of use?
 
Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
Just wondering why the preference for Monarch as opposed to Newegg or ZipZoomFly? Also, is there a pressing need for the workstation now or would waiting for Conroe be better given the big advantage Conroe has over AMD for this type of use?
Click to expand...
If the applications are truly multi-threaded, two Allendale cores (or one Conroe die) may not perform better than 4 Opty cores.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I was just wishing to get the cost down.... oh well. I looked a little more at the Quadro line (the FX 1400 in particular) and I?m sold on the possibility of adding the Quadro SDI to composite live footage with my virtual backgrounds?. Hmmm? I forgot about seeing this at Siggraph last year, to bad the price is $6k. I would also have the option of adding a second matching Quadro card for an SLI setup, correct? The MB does have the nVidia nForce Pro 2050 chipset.

I think I will get the regular Operton chip as opposed to the HE. For the same price I can get the 2.0GHZ chips.

I?m not sure waiting for the Conroe chip would yield much, it seem the Operton chip is pretty well established in this area and the Intel?s typically priced too high.

I?d like to purchase the MB, CPU, MEM, Fans from Monarch because they can put all these together and test. All the other components I?d get from whoever has the lowest price.

Any particular issues with the 750w PSU I?ve chosen? Thanks, here?s my updated purchase?

MB Supermicro H8DC8 $482
CPU (2x) AMD Operton 270 Dual-Core 2.0 GHz (940) 2 X $441 = $882
MEM (4x) OCZSSER4001G 1GB DDR (400) PC-3200 4 X $110 = $440
FAN (2x) Thermaltake AMD Venus 7+ 2 X $13 = $26
VID PNY Quadro FX 1400 128MB DDR $590
Case Lian-Li PC-V1200B $219
PSU Thermaltake Toughpower 750w W0117RU $159
---------------------
Total: $2798

 
MB: Asus K8N-DL=$240
CPU: AMD Operton 270 x2=$882
MEM: Corsair 1GB ECC/Registered RAM x4(2.5 cas)=$440
Fan: You don't have to buy heatsinks.. Operton offers good stock heatsink with heat pipes.
VID: ATI FireGL V7100 256MB=$660
Case: Antec P180-$130
PSU: FSP Group (Forton Source) FX700-GLN 700watts=$171

Total=$2523

All from newegg except the proccessor from monarchcomputers. It's cheaper and maybe better..
 
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/cpu/amd-cmp-vs-smp.html
Building a workstation on dual core Opteron processors is hardly a universally good idea, as even those applications that profit from two processors often cannot use a greater number of CPUs (for example, four). So, the dual core Opteron is mostly a server-oriented processor (AMD actually positions it in the same way).
Click to expand...
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=11

So I would recommend going with Core 2 Duo instead - you also save money on the motherboard and the PSU (the Toughpower might not have worked). If you want to save as much money as possible you can OC a lower-end C2D.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/opteron-xeon-workstation_19.html

This link shows quite efficient scaling with multiple cores for the final render (as opposed to working inside viewports), but clock for clock the C2D is significantly faster and in the end you should end up with the same speed for less money (from my figuring, anyway).
 
At this point theres no reason to go Dual Opterons. They run hotter, are slower, and arent cheaper than Woodcrest Xeons which are available now.
 
Originally posted by: dexvx
At this point theres no reason to go Dual Opterons. They run hotter, are slower, and arent cheaper than Woodcrest Xeons which are available now.
Click to expand...

i was gonna say the same thing
 
Thank you Howard & Dexvx for the links and comparisons to the Dual-Core Woodcrest Xeon. I was a bit aprehensive at first but see they arn't priced too high, is a price-drop on the horizon with either AMD or Intel to make me hold back a purchase. I also saw the recent AT artical "Intel Woodcrest: the Birth of a New King". I'm going to keep up the research and put together a new system that can be cheaper and perform better.

One thing from the reviews that does not seem to apply for me, working within a viewport does not slow me down as much as the time it take for a final render or production render of objects I'm working on, during which time I twiddle my thumbs.
 
Originally posted by: Howard
PCIe 8x isn't fast enough for an FX1400?
Click to expand...
The X7DAE Workstation board has PCI-e 16x slot and the Quadro FX 1400 bus connector is x16 PCI Express. Looks like a match. I would prefer a MB that is marketed as a Workstation board as opposed to ServerBoard for peace of mind? I?d like a stable system, and no overclocking. With this board should I populate with (2) 2GB chips or (4) 1GB chips?

I?m finding some discrepancies between the nVidia site?s product specs and PNY?s specs for the Quadro FX1400. This card has SLI support right (future upgrade)? And is there an HD-Out for a video monitor?

Great info on your PSU site Howard. The Enermax Liberty 620w looks rather fine with SLI. As for the case, I?m really sold on the looks of the Lian-Li V1200B, I can do wheelies with it. Can I get some suggestions for CPU heatsinks/fans, thermal grease. I don?t think I?ll use Monarch now, prices are from links above. Thanks all! Here?s my new Dual-Core Xeon system:

MB Supermicro X7DAE $456
CPU (2x) Intel Dual-Core Xeon 5130 2.0GHz 2 X $331 = $662
MEM (4x) Kensington 1GB DDR2-533 FB-DIMM 4 X $150 = $600
VID PNY Quadro FX 1400 128MB DDR $487
PSU Enermax Liberty ELT620AWT 620w $160
Case Lian-Li PC-V1200B $219
FAN PLEASE SUGGEST 2 X $0 = $0
Grease PLEASE SUGGEST 2 X $0 = $0
----------------------
$2584
 
retail boxed xeons come with a heatsink and fan. there are two boxed models, actually. one comes with a passive 2U cooler and the other comes with an active 1U. get the passive model, add your own fan if you need it. (unlikely with 5130s)
 
Originally posted by: Howard

PCIe 8x isn't fast enough for an FX1400?
Click to expand...

Its not really the bus, but the physical connector that is an issue. You have to remove the plastic connector for a 16x PCI-E card to fit. Actual performance difference is minimal. And there a level of professionalism that you'd expect from a $2500 workstation 😉

Originally posted by: mleonard
I?m finding some discrepancies between the nVidia site?s product specs and PNY?s specs for the Quadro FX1400. This card has SLI support right (future upgrade)? And is there an HD-Out for a video monitor?

With this board should I populate with (2) 2GB chips or (4) 1GB chips?

Can I get some suggestions for CPU heatsinks/fans, thermal grease.
Click to expand...

1) It does not have SLI capablity.
2) Doesnt matter. It has like 8 DIMM slots for upgradeability.
3) Retail cpu's come with heatsinks, and Xeon heatsinks are pretty high end. They come with grease, but if you want you can remove it and re-apply with AS5.
 
The Liberty PSUs will not work with that server board. You need a PSU with discrete 24-pin, 4-pin, and 8-pin power connectors. The Liberty has an 8-pin that breaks up into 2 4-pin connectors.

EDIT: Why do you want SLI?
 
I've been going through an identical exercise - here's what I found:

My app is Autodesk Inventor so it's not multi threading and can't take advantage of more than one CPU so that made my initital twin Opteron CPU on a Tyan K8WE idea superflous.

C2D are the best value in performance at the moment (August) and the E6600 seems adequate and with the right mobo can be OC'd. Inventor only responds to faster clock speed.
Cost $370

The mobo I specked was an ASUS G2 WS Pro. This can be used to OC the CPU and memory.
Cost $270

GPU; now this is really interesting. Like anyone I wanted a Nvidia Quadro 4500 but not at $1500!!!!! It seems that the Nvidia Geforce 6800 is identical and can be soft modded to bring it back up to the spec of of the Quadro 4500. And look at the cost....
Cost $130

2Gb of DDR2 RAM
Cost <$200

I decided on a 23" LCD monitor and found the Sony SDM-P234/B has power autosensing and is £850 here in the UK but lower $$$'s in the US.
Cost $750

HDD is subjective but RAID-0 is my choice.
Cost $250 ish

The whole system came out around $2200.

Now the dilema. The MacPro just came out and has two Xeons and all the bells & whistles I would want plus OSX which I like. I can run XP on it for Inventor. It costs about $1800 more than my specked rig but would last me a lot longer - like ten years!. And it's an Apple. And it has OSX!

It won't run Inventor any faster but I'm really, really tempted. And if Apple put the four core CPU's on it later this year maybe they will drop the price.

Upshot - I've decided to wait until years end when Leopard will be out, Intel's four core CPU's may be out and more mobos for Xeons and C2D's are available then decide what to do.
 
how about getting a Mac Pro? the thought of getting a mac? oh no! the price is actually pretty competitive and if you upgrade your self, you save money. also comes with some other apps you might enjoy.
 
Originally posted by: ForumMaster
how about getting a Mac Pro? the thought of getting a mac? oh no! the price is actually pretty competitive and if you upgrade your self, you save money. also comes with some other apps you might enjoy.
Click to expand...
Too late, it's been ordered. I'd consider a MacPro if it weren't for the Windows based software, AutoCad and 3D Studio Max are my primary programs.
 
So here is what I ended up ordering. Thanks all for the system advise.

CPU (2x) Intel Xeon 5130 (Woodcrest) 2.0GHz Dual-Core 1333MHz
------ $738 @ ATACom
MB Supermicro X7DAE, Dual LGA771 sockets, PCI-E x16, 2x Gb Lan
----- $470 @ Monarch
MEM 4GB (4x1GB) Kensington PC2 5300 DDR2-667 ECC FB-DIMM CL5
----- $676 @ eWiz
VID PNY nVida Quadro FX 1500 PVE, PCI-E x16, 256 MB GDDR3
----- $586 @ Monarch
CAS Lian-Li 1200V Plus II Black (looks slick, like Mac-G4)
----- $220 @ CoolerGuys
PSU Supermicro PWS-0060, 645w low noise
----- $124 @ ATACom
----- Total Cost: $2814

----- from prev. computer -----
HD (2x) WD Raptor 74GB drives in RAID-0 (stripped), 10,000 RPM
HD WD Caviar 200GB 7200 RPM
MON Dell UltraSharp 24" Wide Aspect LCD

I paid a bit too much for the CPU's, my own fault for becoming dyslexis while comparing prices.... they do have passive cooling though, a plus in keeping my system quite, and the case has great cooling. CA tax and shipping added around $200, so my total is really a bit more like $3k.

I'll put some benchmarks up soon including SPECapc for 3D Studio Max 7 to compare against some of these systems.
 
I hate you... just kidding, but no really, i hate you... damn, this computer envy is making me crazy... 😉

Sounds totally cool. Have fun. And try to get some work done.
 
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