Building 3D Rendering/HTPC Setup

[srt42b]

Perhaps you guys can help me out here. It's time for a new computer. Although my iMac C2D has served me well, it's just not up to the task anymore. I am a graphic designer and do a lot of photo editing, flash, and am starting to really get into 3D modeling/animation. I use all of adobe's products (photoshop, illustrator, indesign, dreamweaver, flash, after effects, and a little premiere pro here and there), 3DS Max with Vray, may be getting autocad/rev-it soon as well, and rip burn dvds often. I would also like my new computer to be networked to my TV so that I can watch videos/DVDs on it (I have the Directv hr-21). I was thinking:

Q9450 or Q6600 processor
mobo that supports ddr2, ddr3, 45nm
4gb ddr2 ram
8800GTS 512mb or soon to come 9800GX2 1gb graphics card
500gb-1tb hdd
LG ggw-h20l blu-ray/hd-dvd drive
750w power supply
low profile case

I was also wandering if it would be possible to setup a network drive(s), LG optical, and video card so that I can run the movies without having the computer running the whole time. Can you use the 8800GTS in a NAS enclosure and still get its full power while using the computer to render, etc? Or would I have to get 2 video cards (one in the tower and one in the NAS)?

 

[tynopik]

that's like 2 conflicting goals
htpc - small, quiet
rendering - big, beefy, loud, powerful

how about using your iMac as the htpc system and then building a new rendering system?

also with such memory intensive stuff you might want to consider vista64 and 8gb

there's a lot more to power supplies than just wattage. I would far prefer a quality 500watt power supply (which should be plenty for your system btw) to some cheapo generic 750watt power supply

 

[srt42b]

The iMac is a good option, plus an external or network drive.

As for power supply, I was planning on overclocking the Q9450 or Q6600 and wanted a little extra room just in case. But if 500w will cover it, all the better. Vista 64bit is part of the plan. 8gb I have been told is too excessive and a waste of money at this time. I could always upgrade it if necessary later.

 

[DSF]

Don't bother with a motherboard that supports DDR2 and DDR3.

Changing to DDR3 isn't going to magically increase your system performance all by itself. You'd see a lot more improvement from a video card upgrade. Also, in your case more RAM is likely to be more important than faster RAM, and usually combo boards have more DDR2 slots than DDR3. (Meaning that if you changed over to DDR3, which again would be pointless, you'd have to decrease the amount of RAM.)

 

[Roguestar]

Seeing as you can get 8GB DDR2 for <$200, and the exorbitant price of DDR3, just get the 8GB of DDR2 and lose the DDR3-compatible motherboard. Vista will pretty much put to use as much RAM as you can throw at it. A good 500W PSU will do well, check out the Corsair 520HX for example.

You could consider getting an Nvidia Quadro professional card instead of just a high-end gaming card.

 

[srt42b]

I was just trying to future proof it with the DDR3, but you guys make a compelling argument. As far as the graphics card, the Quadro pro cards a little too expensive for what I was looking for. The high-end gaming cards seem to have better specs than the low end professional cards and cheaper too.

Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

Current list:
Q9450 or Q6600 processor
mobo
8gb ddr2 ram
8800GTS 512mb or soon to come 9800GX2 1gb graphics card
500gb-1tb hdd
LG ggw-h20l blu-ray/hd-dvd drive
Corsair 520HX 500w power supply
case

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: srt42b
As far as the graphics card, the Quadro pro cards a little too expensive for what I was looking for. The high-end gaming cards seem to have better specs than the low end professional cards and cheaper too.

This depends on your rendering tools. Make sure what you use supports it. The wrong card could mean no ability to preview or work in the environment of your tool.

 

[jterrell]

The one area I'd say stick with Mac in is with graphical business apps.

Get a new Mac, imho.

Build a new cheapish htpc or just use the old Mac for that task.

 

[srt42b]

Here's the requirements for what I'm running 3d-wise:

At a minimum, 3ds Max 2008 32-bit software requires a system with:

* Intel® Pentium® IV or AMD Athlon® XP or higher processor
* 512 MB RAM (1 GB recommended)
* 500 MB swap space (2 GB recommended)
* Hardware-accelerated OpenGL and Direct3D supported
* Microsoft Windows-compliant pointing device (optimized for Microsoft IntelliMouse®)
* DVD-ROM drive

Note: Apple® computers based on Intel processors and running Microsoft operating systems are not currently supported.

At a minimum, 3ds Max 2008 64-bit software requires a system with:

* Intel EM64T, AMD Athlon 64 or higher, AMD Opteron® processor
* 1 GB RAM (4 GB recommended)
* 500 MB swap space (2 GB recommended)
* Hardware-accelerated OpenGL and Direct3D supported
* Microsoft Windows-compliant pointing device (optimized IntelliMouse)
* DVD-ROM drive


Vray System requirements

* A computer with 3ds Max 6/7/8/9/2008 or Autodesk VIZ 2005/2006/2007/2008, 32- or 64-bit versions.
* Windows 2000/Windows XP/Windows Vista, 32- or 64-bit versions (64-bit is recommended);
* Intel Penium III or compatible processor at 400 MHz minimum (dual Pentium IV or AMD Opteron or later recommended);
* 128 MB RAM and 350 MB swap minimum - recommended 4 GB or more RAM, 4 GB or more swap file.

 

[srt42b]

All the adobe products run smoothly on my old iMac so I can still use that as well. Maybe use that as my HTPC/adobe machine. It's a dual boot, which I could always do with me new rig if necessary as well.

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: srt42b
I was just trying to future proof it with the DDR3, but you guys make a compelling argument. As far as the graphics card, the Quadro pro cards a little too expensive for what I was looking for. The high-end gaming cards seem to have better specs than the low end professional cards and cheaper too.

Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

Current list:
Q9450 or Q6600 processor
mobo
8gb ddr2 ram
8800GTS 512mb or soon to come 9800GX2 1gb graphics card
500gb-1tb hdd
LG ggw-h20l blu-ray/hd-dvd drive
Corsair 520HX 500w power supply
case

I run 3ds MAX 9, AutoDesk Architecture 2008 and Premier with the quad system in my thread, it works better than any over priced, dual processor, quadro equipped, scsii raid 0 workstation that I have had over the past 10.. gulp... 15 years. I swapped out my GTX for a g80 GTS and took a performance hit, but it's still a very good box.

I think you are on the right track with your q9450 and 8800 gts, I don't know that I could justify the Gx2 card, but if you have the cash to burn then go for it.

 

[srt42b]

Its good to hear that someone with similar processing needs opinion. I was thinking the 8800GTS as I can get a second one later if need be and have read that

9800GX2 (~$600) > 2x8800GTS (2x~$350) > 8800GTX ($~400)

Or possibly overclocking the GTS g80 which should out perform the 8800Ultra.

 

[MarcVenice]

A GTS g80 outperforming an 8800ultra ? You're mixing up numbers here, you mean the 8800gts 512mb g92, not the 8800gts 320/640mb g80. Stay focused

For SLI you need a rather BIG psu though, and a SLI capable motherboard. In the end I don't think it's worth it. Just go with a single card and step it up to something better when you need it.

 

[jterrell]

Gotcha!

I ran 3DS MAX on an old pentium 2 but that was long ago and about the best I could do was create some cool wallpapers, lol.

Most shops I have been in though had Autocad and various graphical apps running on MAC boxes with very nice 24" to 30" Apple monitors.

Below is a note from someone running 3DS MAx 2008 on an mac book.

http://3dguru.wordpress.com/20...008-on-a-mac-book-pro/

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: jterrell
Gotcha!

I ran 3DS MAX on an old pentium 2 but that was long ago and about the best I could do was create some cool wallpapers, lol.

Most shops I have been in though had Autocad and various graphical apps running on MAC boxes with very nice 24" to 30" Apple monitors.

Below is a note from someone running 3DS MAx 2008 on an mac book.

http://3dguru.wordpress.com/20...008-on-a-mac-book-pro/

AutoCAD on Mac boxes? I suppose on the intel versions you could, but it's not supported and would be WAY too expensive

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: srt42b
Its good to hear that someone with similar processing needs opinion. I was thinking the 8800GTS as I can get a second one later if need be and have read that

9800GX2 (~$600) > 2x8800GTS (2x~$350) > 8800GTX ($~400)

Or possibly overclocking the GTS g80 which should out perform the 8800Ultra.

If I had to build one in the next month or so I would go with a single 8800GTS (g92), 8 gb of Super Talant ddr2 800 RAM, one of the mid range Gigabyte p35 boards and whatever quad core was on the sweet spot.....

8800 Ultra is not worth the extra heat or bling

I would like to see how the new g92 based quadros are running, but I can't justify the extra $300

 

[srt42b]

acronyms > me

Updated shopping list:
Q6600 overclocked to 3.0-3.5gHz (looks like the Q9450 isn't OC too well)
P35 or 780i mobo (rather go cheaper but will get 780i if necessary)
4 x 2gb PC2 6400 DDR2 ram
2 x 250gb SATA-300 16mb cache drives in RAID0 (all movies, music, etc will be on old iMac)
8800gts 512mb g92 (overclocked if necessary)
Whatever dvd burner I have laying around
Corsair 520HX 500w power supply
good tower for overclocking?
Anything else?

 

[sgrinavi]

Looks like you have a strong system going there. I do not have any experience with the new generation of nvidia chipsets, so I can not comment on that aspect, but I do know that you do not need to spend a fortune on a board for your purposes.

Why do you want raid?

 

[jterrell]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

Originally posted by: jterrell
Gotcha!

I ran 3DS MAX on an old pentium 2 but that was long ago and about the best I could do was create some cool wallpapers, lol.

Most shops I have been in though had Autocad and various graphical apps running on MAC boxes with very nice 24" to 30" Apple monitors.

Below is a note from someone running 3DS MAx 2008 on an mac book.

http://3dguru.wordpress.com/20...008-on-a-mac-book-pro/

AutoCAD on Mac boxes? I suppose on the intel versions you could, but it's not supported and would be WAY too expensive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb4MHp6_B-A

Graphical design at that level isn't cheap at all.

I would have done that type of work on an older SGI box 10 years ago.
I wouldn't trust a windows PC with that type of work.

Macs have pretty much stayed in existence based on their graphic design users.

The common 1K build we toss out for gamers is hardly what I'd suggest for a graphic design box.

Those Quattro cards do serve a purpose for sure. We'd use them in high end machines that were going to hospitals for displaying x-rays.

We just have to be careful with the one size fits all stuff imho.

 

[heymrdj]

+1 for RAID question. RAID 0 won't provide you with that much better speed. Due to higher platter densities, a single 500GB drive will compare quite nicely at probably something like a 75% price reduction compared to your RAID setup.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

I can't stress enough having an actual rendering card for a machine dedicated to rendering. A Quadro pwns a 8800 in rendering, even if it is only because of drivers available for the Quadro series. You will see a drastic improvement in performance of setting up of a scene if you use a rendering card vice a gaming card.

 

[srt42b]

I was thinking RAID 0 for speed, redundancy backups, security, etc.

I have read that the 8800GTS with different bios will effectively become a Quadro in 3DS Max 9/2008 and Autocad 2008. Just some food for thought. This will not be a dedicated rendering box either, I'm leaning toward making it my primary computer for Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, games, internet, etc.

 

[tynopik]

> I was thinking RAID 0 for speed

minimal benefit for most users

> redundancy backups, security, etc.

WHOA! back up there partner!

RAID-0 REDUCES backup/reliability/security/etc

you should really research what the different raid levels mean

if you lose just 1 disk in a RAID-0 array, you lose ALL data on ALL disks