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Build Suggestions

M

MadBadger

Member
Hi everybody,

I?m in need of some advice.

It?s been about 6 years since my last upgrade and I?m looking for a new toy to play with. My last computer was a Dell (waste of money). The system was a piece of junk (underperformed in every task) and the customer service was atrocious. Needless to say, I?m looking for a more positive experience this time around.

I?m looking to keep things around $1500. The only systems in this range that I?d consider purchasing are the Velocity campus edition or an upper level emachine (my folks bought one and I was really impressed with it, especially for the price). The Velocity wouldn?t ship until mid November and I?m not sure that the emachines would satisfy my needs. Long story short, I?m leaning towards building my first computer.

I?ve finalized just about everything, but I wanted to get your thoughts on what I?ve come up with. Here?s what I?m looking for with my next system:

1) Functionality ? Other than office-type tasks I?ll be using it for photo editing (hobby) and gaming (occasionally). I like all types of games (fps to rpg) as long as they?re entertaining. I probably won?t be gaming all that much, but when I do game I like to be able to enjoy most of what it has to offer. I?m tired of the slide shows.

2) Upgradeability ? I?m looking for a system that?s fairly future proof (good for at least 2-4 years).

3) Reliability ? The most important trait for me. The last thing that I want to deal with is an unstable system.

After some research, this is what I came up with:

Shiny New Computer 10/06

Processor Core 2 Duo E6400 (775 - 2.13 GHz 2048K)
$220.00

Motherboard Intel 975x D975XBXLKR
$227.00

Memory ???

Video Card Sapphire Radeon X1900GT 256MB
$195.99

Sound Card X-fi XtremeMusic
$120.00

Hard Drive Seagate 3.0Gbps 320GB 7200RPM 16MB Barracuda 7200.10
$95.00

Optical Drive NEC ND-3550A 16X DVD+/-RW
$28.99

Display Samsung 971P 19-inch LCD Monitor
$329.99

Case APEVIA (ASPIRE) X-CRUISER-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$59.99

Power Supply OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply 100- 240 V
$124.99

Bottom Line $1,401.95 - shipping - memory

So, there it is. Thoughts?

Since I?m looking for stability and reliability, I don?t plan on doing much, if any, overclocking.

With that in mind, do you think it?s worth $60 to upgrade the video card to an XT?

I?ve also been debating upgrading the processor to an E6600. Honestly though, that?s probably more than I really need.

Also, I?m clueless as to what type of memory I should get. I?m looking for the cheapest memory that?s reliable (preferably with a good warranty). Any recommendations?

Any general advice for someone about to build their first computer?

Cheers! :beer:

* edit - formatting *
 
pkme2,

Thanks for the links! I'm sure that the guide will come in handy. I'm not a total newbie to hardware. I'm comfortable working inside a computer and I've taken them apart and put them back together before (way back in college I was a certified computer tech). That being said, I've never built my own computer before (always wanted to but just never had a reason/time to). My biggest problem is that I'm totally out of touch with current technology.

I've done a fair amount of research and from everything that I've looked at (reviews, forums, google searches), the list above is what I came up with. Here's the logic behind my choices:

Processor - Latest and greatest. Good bang for the buck. Definitely enough power for me right now. Not sure if it's worth the upgrade to the e6600. From what I've looked at, the performance gain seems to be worth the money. I guess it's probably one of those "if you can afford it, why not?" situations.

Motherboard - From what I've read in reviews, everyone seems to believe it's the most stable 975 motherboard with decent performance. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

Memory - I should probably do more research and update myself as to what my best option is. But I should do a lot of things that I don't 😱
Suggestions/pointers here are definitely welcome!

Video Card - From all that I've found the GT is the best bang for the buck and the XT is an exceptional performer. Since I'm probably not likely to upgrade the video card anytime soon, I'll probably just spring for the XT. Unless there's a compelling reason to upgrade soon after the new directx10 GPUs come out?

Sound Card - It was recommended to use one for the Intel board. The choice was between the A2Z and the X-Fi. From what I found the X-Fi seems to be worth the extra cash. Though, I think I will wait for the next sale before buying.

Hard Drive - Great reviews all around. Seems to be great bang for the buck.

Optical Drive - Took it from the Anandtech midrange buyers guide.

Display - Found it in the Hard OCP forum. I like the style and specs and the 1 review out about it had nothing but good words for it.

Case - Looks pretty cool to me; seems very functional and isn't overly expensive. Unfortunately, I seem to have just missed 2 sales on it.

PSU - With all the crazy hardware that's coming out, I figure it's worth the extra money to gain some future, uh, proofness.

That's about it. Feel free to critique my logic. I'm basically hoping to get some feedback (good or bad) about my choices as I'm not up to date with the current technology and therefore not totally comfortable taking the plunge quite yet.

Anyways, thanks again for the links. I'll definitely check them out when I get the chance.

*Edited - to increase clarity and decrease rambling. It's too early in the morning -_-*
 
Well, if you plan on upgrading to high-end DX10 SLi/Crossfire in the future (far or near future), then that GXS wont do. The new PC P&C 1KWs that are coming out with a sinlge, monster, 12V rail will be able to handle it. If your just going to do low/mid end SLi/Crossfire DX10 then look at the TT Toughpower 750W. For DX9 SLi/Crossfire, or single card DX10, look at the Corsair HX520W.
 
A few things I'd point out?

Sound card: Competently not unnecessary for anyone but the extreme audiophile or hardcore gamer. All modern good motherboards come with integrated HD-Audio that is very good.

Power supply: 700 watts is far more then you need and there are better choices then OCZ as well. A good 350+ PSU from Seasonic, Enhance or FSP (non-AX series) would do well.

RAM: DDR2 667 (or even 533) is fine for the low clocked Core2s. I would just make sure you stick to reputable manufacture such as Corsair.

Case: That case is very garish and generally low quality. If you want a basic high quality case InWin is my first choice, here is a good example. If you want something a bit nicer take a look at Lian Li.
 
Spend more on the monitor and less on the motherboard. You're spending $70 more than you need to on the motherboard, with the $120 from ditching the soundcard you've got enough to get you a nice 20" + widescreen.

The X1900GT is a poor choice, in terms of bang/buck it's pretty terrible. Either go with an Nvidia card or go up to a X1900XT 256mb.
 
A good 350+ PSU from Seasonic, Enhance or FSP (non-AX series) would do well.
Click to expand...

How do you figure?

350W PSU usually means under 300W on the 12V rail. 80-100W for the CPU, 100W for the video card. 50W for other componants, and take off about 20% of 300W for efficiency and you are very tight on power. Not to mension this part of his post:

2) Upgradeability ? I?m looking for a system that?s fairly future proof (good for at least 2-4 years).
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: dBTelos
A good 350+ PSU from Seasonic, Enhance or FSP (non-AX series) would do well.
Click to expand...

How do you figure?

350W PSU usually means under 300W on the 12V rail. 80-100W for the CPU, 100W for the video card. 50W for other componants, and take off about 20% of 300W for efficiency and you are very tight on power. Not to mension this part of his post:

2) Upgradeability ? I?m looking for a system that?s fairly future proof (good for at least 2-4 years).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

A 6300 or 6400 is closer to 50 watts and nowhere near 100. 100 watts for 1900XT is about right. 50 watts for everything else, ok but that's a very generous estimate. That?s about 200 watts total for everything; again which is a generous estimate.

Also efficiency has nothing to do with output; efficiency is measured on the AC side, not the DC. For further reading look here.

If the OP wants to ?future proof? that?s fine, but I would go with something other then that OCZ. The Seasonic M12 or the new high-efficient S12s would be my pick.
 
Actually, the 380W S12 only has 14A @ 12V rail. 168W. Still way too small.

Well, if you plan on upgrading to high-end DX10 SLi/Crossfire in the future (far or near future), then that GXS wont do. The new PC P&C 1KWs that are coming out with a sinlge, monster, 12V rail will be able to handle it. If your just going to do low/mid end SLi/Crossfire DX10 then look at the TT Toughpower 750W. For DX9 SLi/Crossfire, or single card DX10, look at the Corsair HX520W.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: dBTelos
Actually, the 380W S12 only has 14A @ 12V rail. 168W. Still way too small.
Click to expand...

It's plenty; I've built machines around the 380 S12 that are more power hungry then what the OP intends to put together.
 
Please explain? I'd like to know how a Conroe CPU, a x1900, and other system componants can all be run on 170W.
 
dBTelos - I'm probably not going to upgrade to a high-end DX10 Sli/Crossfire before my next system upgrade (I'm too cheap!) I'm guessing that the new PC P&C is pretty darn expensive as well.

I'd most likely upgrade it to a single DX10 GPU or add another DX9 GPU.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am since I'm basing these numbers off of my vague recollection of a review that I read earlier, but are these power consumption numbers in the ball park?

HDD 25 W each
C2D 100 W
Fan 3W
Optical Drive 30 W each
Memory 10 W each?
1900 XT 100 W
Margin of safety 100 W
Sound Card 20 W
USB 5 W each

If these figures are in the ball park, then my current build is around 460 W with the margin of safety. I'd probably add some more HDDs at some point (likely 3 or so; I take a crapload of photos). If I add another GPU and some more fans and memory (460 + 75 + 100 + 30) then I'm getting close to 700 W.

The OCZ is available for $100 right now and the cheapest I found the TT 750 was $160. Do you think it's worth the extra $60?

Operandi - Thanks for the suggestions (esp. the memory!)

The reason why I'm considering a sound card is because more than one of the reviews for the Intel mobo mention the onboard sound as being poor and they recommend getting a sound card to offset that. I think I'll hold off on the sound card and test it for myself. If it's really that bad, then I'll look into getting a sound card on sale (around $70). From my research it looked like I just missed a couple of sales on the x fi's =|

I kind of like the look of the APEVIA :frown: I do like the InWin though. Simple and stylish. But will the larger PSU fit in that case? I think the Lian Lis are a bit too expensive for me. With the $200 memory, I'm at $1480 without the sound card or shipping.

Bobthelost - Do you have any suggestions for a replacement mobo? The key characteristics that I'm looking for are stability and reliability.

I think you're right about the GPU, I'm going to spring for the XT 🙂

 
Originally posted by: dBTelos
Please explain? I'd like to know how a Conroe CPU, a x1900, and other system componants can all be run on 170W.
Click to expand...

10A + 15A = 25A x 12v = 300 watts not 170.

It's plenty, read HERE.
 
Uh, didn't see that 12V reading correctly. I see what you mean, the site I got the sticker from said 14A one 12V rail.

-dB
 
Originally posted by: MadBadger
HDD 25 W each
C2D 100 W
Fan 3W
Optical Drive 30 W each
Memory 10 W each?
1900 XT 100 W
Margin of safety 100 W
Sound Card 20 W
USB 5 W each
Click to expand...

The highest-end Core2's approach the 100 watt mark but the lower to mid range chips draw very little; more like 50-60 watts.

A 1900XT will be right around 100 watts under full load.

Honestly everything else is of little consequence. Hard drives and optical drives will draw maybe 20 watts peak during spin up but only a fraction of that afterwards.

If these figures are in the ball park, then my current build is around 460 W with the margin of safety. I'd probably add some more HDDs at some point (likely 3 or so; I take a crapload of photos). If I add another GPU and some more fans and memory (460 + 75 + 100 + 30) then I'm getting close to 700 W.

Originally posted by: MadBadger
The OCZ is available for $100 right now and the cheapest I found the TT 750 was $160. Do you think it's worth the extra $60?
Click to expand...

Quality and is much more important then quantity in PSUs, especially if you value reliability and stability which you explicitly mentioned. Stability is all about clean power after all and power obviously starts at the PSU.

OCZ is OK but typically Thermaltake is known as a junk brand. If it was my system I would go with Seasonic, other good choices would be Enhance, FSP, Zalman, and PCP&C.

Originally posted by: MadBadger
The reason why I'm considering a sound card is because more than one of the reviews for the Intel mobo mention the onboard sound as being poor and they recommend getting a sound card to offset that. I think I'll hold off on the sound card and test it for myself. If it's really that bad, then I'll look into getting a sound card on sale (around $70). From my research it looked like I just missed a couple of sales on the x fi's =|
Click to expand...

Intel pretty much drew up the HD-Audio; it would be strange if their own implementation wasn't very good. Where did you read that it was poor?

Originally posted by: MadBadger
I kind of like the look of the APEVIA :frown: I do like the InWin though. Simple and stylish. But will the larger PSU fit in that case? I think the Lian Lis are a bit too expensive for me. With the $200 memory, I'm at $1480 without the sound card or shipping.
Click to expand...
The InWin is decently sized Mid-tower, it shouldn?t have any problems fitting larger PSUs (not that you need one).

The Lian Li's are more expensive but how often do you buy a case? A good case is an investment; I know I'll never go back to plastic/steel case again.

Originally posted by: MadBadger
Bobthelost - Do you have any suggestions for a replacement mobo? The key characteristics that I'm looking for are stability and reliability.
Click to expand...

The Gigabyte DS3 is a popular choice, give that one a look.
 
Amos - Thanks for the suggestions. Sound card is ditched for now. I'll just throw in the old sound card from my piece of junk dell and if that's not enough I'll look for an upgrade.

I think I'm going to spring for the Intel mobo. It might not be the best value or performer, but it seems to be the most reliable (ala newegg reviews), and that's the most important deciding factor for me.

Operandi - Thanks for the info. About the PSU, I think I'm going to stick with the OCZ. The reviews for it have been impressive, it's only $100-$130, and it gives me piece of mind for the future. It's also apparently a rebadged FSP (and runs fairly quiet).

I found the info on the Intel mobo here. The third response has the links to the actual articles. One of the articles was from Anandtech. Here's a blurb they had on the audio:

The included Intel Audio Studio software offers excellent configuration options in an impressive yet easy to use package. The Sigmatel 9221D audio solution displayed excellent sound characteristics in music, video, and DVD playback throughout our testing and should seriously be considered as the main audio component if gaming is not your priority. However, while the audio output quality in games was acceptable, the lack of basic EAX compatibility and performance degradation is not.

I believe there were a couple of other reviews from that batch that mentioned the same thing as well. I probably should have qualified "poor". It's only poor with respect to games.

About the case, I think I found a good one. This Ultra Aluminus is selling for $30 right now and it's received some great reviews. The only ones that are available are in blue or silver though. I guess I'd go with blue (silver finish looks a little dull in the photos). Anyhow, have you guys seen this case first hand? I'm a bit concerned with it being noisy, other than that, it's apparently a quality case (and it's $30!) If I do buy this case, I'm thinking of buying some 120mm Yate Loon fans for it.

Thanks for the mobo suggestion. After looking at the reviews, I'll look into it some more. Though right now I'm still leaning towards the Intel.
 
Originally posted by: MadBadger
Operandi - Thanks for the info. About the PSU, I think I'm going to stick with the OCZ. The reviews for it have been impressive, it's only $100-$130, and it gives me piece of mind for the future. It's also apparently a rebadged FSP (and runs fairly quiet).

I found the info on the Intel mobo here. The third response has the links to the actual articles. One of the articles was from Anandtech. Here's a blurb they had on the audio:

The included Intel Audio Studio software offers excellent configuration options in an impressive yet easy to use package. The Sigmatel 9221D audio solution displayed excellent sound characteristics in music, video, and DVD playback throughout our testing and should seriously be considered as the main audio component if gaming is not your priority. However, while the audio output quality in games was acceptable, the lack of basic EAX compatibility and performance degradation is not.

I believe there were a couple of other reviews from that batch that mentioned the same thing as well. I probably should have qualified "poor". It's only poor with respect to games.
Click to expand...

Ok, I read that Anadtech bit. Basically they say the audio is very good in quality; so it sounds good, that?s what counts. The only negative is the lack of EAX and the higher then average CPU utilization, both of which could or may have already been addressed with newer drivers

Frankly EAX sucks anyway even when it dose work so you?re not losing anything there and if you look at the actual benchmarks the performance is virtually the same. You'd certainly never feel the difference. You would have to be crazy to use your old Dell sound card, use the Intel's HD.

Originally posted by: MadBadger
About the case, I think I found a good one. This Ultra Aluminus is selling for $30 right now and it's received some great reviews. The only ones that are available are in blue or silver though. I guess I'd go with blue (silver finish looks a little dull in the photos). Anyhow, have you guys seen this case first hand? I'm a bit concerned with it being noisy, other than that, it's apparently a quality case (and it's $30!) If I do buy this case, I'm thinking of buying some 120mm Yate Loon fans for it.
Click to expand...

That case is basically a clone of Antec used a lot 4-5 years ago, the only difference being 120mm fans and the flashy paint job, it's an alright but nothing special. It seems a bit odd to stick such high-end hardware into entry level case.

 
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