Build new system now? or wait?

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Should I build a new Athlon XP system now or should I wait? Is there going to be any new technology I should wait for?

What are some good motherboard brands? I've been looking at some Epox boards, are they a pretty good brand? I want DDR memory but I'm confused by the 2200, 2700, ect, ect, what do they mean?


thanks.
 

NTB

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2001
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Epoxs are good boards; I've had one for a long time and just bought another one to replace an ECS that died on me.

As for the DDR ram, the numbers represent how much bandwidth the memory provides (and also the speed): PC2100 = 2.1GB/second bandwidth / 266MHz bus speed; PC2700 = 2.7GB/second and 333 MHz bus speed, I think.

I would go for a mid-range processor if I were you; the newest and fastest carry too much of a premium, while at the low end the differences in price are minimal. You may want to get an XP1600+ and a good heatsink if you want to try your hand at overclocking; people seem to be getting good results with those.

EDIT: Look here for oppinions and reviews of the latest Epox boards.

Another Edit: Current Athlon XPs use a 266MHz bus, and therefore use PC2100 DDR RAM. However, it seems that AMD may soon be going to a 333MHz bus, and the two newest VIA chipsets (KT333 and KT400) both - unofficially - support this speed. A system built around this faster bus will require PC2700 DDR, so if you plan on upgrading again in the near future, it may be better just to buy PC2700 DDR from the get-go and simply run it at the slower speed for now.

Nate
 

CrazySaint

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May 3, 2002
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Btw, what are your current system specs? If you already have a decent CPU (1GHz+) then your best bet may be to upgrade part of your system (like video card, maybe) then hold out for one of the new CPUs coming out (Barton/Hammer/Prescott), but if you have a fairly slow system (<1GHz) then you should probably go ahead and buy now.
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Thanks for the replies. If I were to buy an epox board would it support the new hammer proccessors coming out? Or would I have to upgrade the mobo again?
 

NTB

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Mar 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: BZeto
Thanks for the replies. If I were to buy an epox board would it support the new hammer proccessors coming out? Or would I have to upgrade the mobo again?


No, it won't support a Hammer; no current MB will. The Hammers are a different design and therefore requires a different socket. It will support future 32-bit Athlons though, which I think AMD plans to continue as their "low-end" CPUs once the Hammers actually arrive on the market.

Nate
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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my current system specs are:

AMD athlon T-bird 1.33 Ghz
256mb Crucial PC133 RAM
Geforce2 GTS 64mb
Seagate 40gb 7200 rpm drive
Crappy case and a 300Watt power supply


I want a new case for better ventilation and cooling(and a cool looking one), and I think I need a bigger power supply for a geforce 4. So I figure I would just slap a new mobo, proccessor, and RAM in it. Instead of having to switch my current one out of the case later on.

As long as this Athlon XP system will last me a while, then I will be happy.

What do you guys think of this mobo?

Epox EP-8K5A2

Whats the difference between the EP-8K5A2 and the EP-8K5A2+ ?



thanks
 

CrazySaint

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May 3, 2002
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That's an excellent motherboard. The EPoX USA site is down, so I can't check the specific differences between the 8K5A2 and the 8K5A2+. Honestly, you probably won't notice much difference between a TBird 1.33 and an XP, especially if you get one rated 1800/2000 or below. If I were you, I'd do a partial upgrade now (case, PSU, motherboard, RAM, maybe video card), then upgrade the CPU once Barton comes out, which should be in a few months or at least wait until the 2700 and 2800 XPs come out with the 333MHz FSBs. Right now, you'll probably get a 10-15% performance increase just from a new DDR mobo/RAM. And of course, you'll see a bit improvement in games if you get a new graphics card. For the case, I'd recommend Antec since they make excellent cases and motherboards. I've got an Antec PP660B w/330w Antec PSU and I love it.
 

Insane3D

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May 24, 2000
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Whats the difference between the EP-8K5A2 and the EP-8K5A2+ ?

Check out that thread that NTB linked to. It has reviews and info regarding the Epox 8K5A series of motherboards. That particular question is answered a couple times.

However, I will explain it again...:)


The 8K5A2+ has a ATA/RAID controller, onboard LAN, and onboard 5.1 sound. The 8K5A2 has no ATA/RAID controller or onboard LAN, and has 2 channel audio.


Here's a nice upgrade that will tide you over until the faster Athlon's come along..

Epox 8K5A2+ - $99.51 @ Mwave
512mb Samsung PC2700 - $124.50 shipped @ Googlegear
Athlon XP 1600+ AGOIA - $54 shipped @ Newegg

Total: 278.01

With that setup, you can run the 1600+ XP @ 166mhz FSB, 166mhz memory, and 1.75ghz (2100+) without breaking a sweat.

:)
 

Insane3D

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May 24, 2000
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One more thing I just noticed...it looks like Newegg is giving $5 off that case if you buy an AMD product. If you buy the 1600+ and the case together, you can get $5 off the case. :)
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Hmm, I'm actually considering this. Too bad that case doesn't have a slot for a 120mm fan... And no top exhaust fan. Or power supply, lol. But it does look cool.
 

Insane3D

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May 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: BZeto
Hmm, I'm actually considering this. Too bad that case doesn't have a slot for a 120mm fan... And no top exhaust fan. Or power supply, lol. But it does look cool.

Why a 120mm fan? The case has fan cages for three 80 mm intakes, 2 80mm exhausts, and one 80mm side intake fan....6 fans is not enough for you? A top blowhole is not always the best...

 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Insane3D
Originally posted by: BZeto
Hmm, I'm actually considering this. Too bad that case doesn't have a slot for a 120mm fan... And no top exhaust fan. Or power supply, lol. But it does look cool.

Why a 120mm fan? The case has fan cages for three 80 mm intakes, 2 80mm exhausts, and one 80mm side intake fan....6 fans is not enough for you? A top blowhole is not always the best...


No, I just bought a Vantec Stealth 120mm fan the other day and mounted it on the side of my current case, but it actually made my mobo temps go up. So I have an extra 120mm fan now and I wanted to put it to use.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now, I just ordered the Cheiftec a while ago :D You say it has 3 intake fans plus the side fan? I thought only 2 front intakes? I'm really excited about this case, it looks awesome and very spacious. I cant wait to build this system, it'll look good with a blue cold cathode, and maybe some blue led fans.
 

Insane3D

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May 24, 2000
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You say it has 3 intake fans plus the side fan? I thought only 2 front intakes? I'm really excited about this case, it looks awesome and very spacious. I cant wait to build this system, it'll look good with a blue cold cathode, and maybe some blue led fans.

If you look at this picture, you can see that there is one lower fan cage, near the bottom, and a fan holder in the bottom HD cage. The upper HD cage does not have a fan holder, but you can get one and have three intake fans total in the front.

You might want to check out SVC for good deals on rounded cables, 80mm Crystal LED fans, and cold cathode light kits. :)


BTW, are you upgrading, or just getting a new case?
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Insane3D
You say it has 3 intake fans plus the side fan? I thought only 2 front intakes? I'm really excited about this case, it looks awesome and very spacious. I cant wait to build this system, it'll look good with a blue cold cathode, and maybe some blue led fans.

BTW, are you upgrading, or just getting a new case?


Yeah, I'm building a new system. So far, here is what I bought from newegg tonight:

Cheiftec case
Antec 430 Watt True power supply
AMD Athlon XP 1600 (the $52 deal, plus i got a one year warranty on it)
Arctic Silver 3
Sony floppy drive (I need one and its cheap)

total= $231.55 shipped


Now, what I still need to get:

Epox EP-8K5A2+ mobo
512mb PC2700 DDR RAM (not sure of the brand yet)
Ti4200 GF4
Heatsink & fan for xp1600 (I plan to overclock though) suggestions for this are welcome.
A couple 80mm case fans, maybe a cold cathode, and various other stuff.


I predict this system will take an extended time period before its built, dont have the money for everything right now, but I wanted to get the good stuff while it was hot. (XP1600 and the case)

I have some rounded cables on the way from SVC, wish I would have seen the blue led fans earlier though.
 

hinet

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Aug 12, 2002
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Judging from your current system specs, if you wanna go with AMD, I think you should wait, because there are a couple of pretty exciting CPUs that have been announced, but aren't in the market yet. They will be soon though, possible within the next 1-2 months. These are the Athlon XP 2400+ and 2600+ processors, which have been reviewed to be great performers as well as great overclockers. Then there's the Athlon XP 2700+ and 2800+ processors, which are based on the same Thoroughbred-B core, but with native 333MHz FSB. The FSB boost should improve their performance by perhaps 5-10% over similarly clocked 266MHz FSB processors, especially when paired with 333MHz PC2700 DDR memory.

If you wanna go with Intel though, now's as good a time to upgrade as many, as they currently have the performance lead over AMD with their P4 2.53GHz and beyond...
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Wont the Epox EP-8K5A2+ be compatible with the new 2700+ and 2800+ proccessors?
 

Ilmater

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Jun 13, 2002
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As this is a forum for offering advice, even though it's too late I'm going to tell you what I would have recommended. First of all, I won't believe you if you tell me that going from a T-bird 1.33 to an XP 1600 made any noticable difference in performance. I went from a PII 450 to an AXP 1900 recently and could barely tell the difference. I think that it was a waste of money to go with a faster proc. What you need is a mobo that will run faster RAM, as your XP is starved by the PC133. Had I found you before you started buying, I would have recommended the following:

1) Switch to a newer KT333 mobo that the manufacturer has guaranteed will run future 333MHz procs.
2) Get some good quality PC2700 DDR SDRAM, such as Corsair, that is rated to run at CL2.
3) If you don't have very good case cooling, go with that Antec case (or if you're all about spending money, get a Lian-Li, the best cases on the market). The Antec should come with a quality power supply, while the Lian-Lis don't, so I'd recommend Enermax or Antec.
4) Get a GF4 Ti4200 with 128MB of RAM. The best Gainward on the market comes with 3.3ns RAM, which means that the RAM is guaranteed to run at 606MHz DDR. They come with overclocking utilities and are easily pushed to GF4 Ti4600 speeds.

Now my reasons. First off, as I said before, a processor upgrade right now is kind of silly. Don't take it personally, but unless you have money to throw around, it's a waste. Secondly, you'll be able to pick up plenty of speed out of your old proc by getting 512MB of PC2700 DDR SDRAM, especially with CL2. If you get the mobo that's certified to run the 333MHz FSB and you've got PC2700 RAM, you can upgrade to a Barton (512k cache will really help) when they come out and take full advantage of them. I don't see any speed advantages from motherboards coming out any time soon, especially after seeing today that the nForce 2 has little if any advantage over the KT333. Therefore, if you had had a new mobo, new RAM, a new case, a new PS and a new Ti4200, you'd be ready to upgrade your proc when the new Bartons come out in February (they won't be here until then, mark my words). Just MHO....
 

BZeto

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Apr 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: Ilmater
As this is a forum for offering advice, even though it's too late I'm going to tell you what I would have recommended. First of all, I won't believe you if you tell me that going from a T-bird 1.33 to an XP 1600 made any noticable difference in performance. I went from a PII 450 to an AXP 1900 recently and could barely tell the difference. I think that it was a waste of money to go with a faster proc. What you need is a mobo that will run faster RAM, as your XP is starved by the PC133. Had I found you before you started buying, I would have recommended the following:

1) Switch to a newer KT333 mobo that the manufacturer has guaranteed will run future 333MHz procs.
2) Get some good quality PC2700 DDR SDRAM, such as Corsair, that is rated to run at CL2.
3) If you don't have very good case cooling, go with that Antec case (or if you're all about spending money, get a Lian-Li, the best cases on the market). The Antec should come with a quality power supply, while the Lian-Lis don't, so I'd recommend Enermax or Antec.
4) Get a GF4 Ti4200 with 128MB of RAM. The best Gainward on the market comes with 3.3ns RAM, which means that the RAM is guaranteed to run at 606MHz DDR. They come with overclocking utilities and are easily pushed to GF4 Ti4600 speeds.

Now my reasons. First off, as I said before, a processor upgrade right now is kind of silly. Don't take it personally, but unless you have money to throw around, it's a waste. Secondly, you'll be able to pick up plenty of speed out of your old proc by getting 512MB of PC2700 DDR SDRAM, especially with CL2. If you get the mobo that's certified to run the 333MHz FSB and you've got PC2700 RAM, you can upgrade to a Barton (512k cache will really help) when they come out and take full advantage of them. I don't see any speed advantages from motherboards coming out any time soon, especially after seeing today that the nForce 2 has little if any advantage over the KT333. Therefore, if you had had a new mobo, new RAM, a new case, a new PS and a new Ti4200, you'd be ready to upgrade your proc when the new Bartons come out in February (they won't be here until then, mark my words). Just MHO....
Let me tell you what I have NOT bought yet:

mobo
RAM
vid card

Ok, well, the Epox EP-8K5A2+ is a KT333 mobo. Not sure if it will run at the 333mhz fsb though. I haven't bought the RAM yet, but the stuff I'm looking at is CL 2.5. Is it that much worse than CL2 ?

I did buy the $52 XP1600 proc, ok, $50, I can live with that even if it doesn't give me much better performance.

haven't bought vid card yet either, still looking at the GF4's. But Gainward is the brand I am looking at.
 

azkiwi

Senior member
Oct 1, 2000
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Originally posted by: Ilmater
I went from a PII 450 to an AXP 1900 recently and could barely tell the difference. ....

no offense but what software are you running? Heck, I'm even a proponent of your general theory, but if the jump from a PII-450 to an XP1900 didn't make you feel warm all under (at least briefly) you must still be running DOS, or something is tragically wrong.

Do you get cold when the snow flies?

 

CrazySaint

Platinum Member
May 3, 2002
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Originally posted by: Ilmater
I don't see any speed advantages from motherboards coming out any time soon, especially after seeing today that the nForce 2 has little if any advantage over the KT333.

Eh? I take it you haven't read all the reviews showing a nice performance increase over KT333 (avering around 5%)? Not to mention nForce2 has Audigy-level audio, AGP8X, 3x firewire ports, integrated USB 2.0, NIC and S-ATA...
 

Insane3D

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May 24, 2000
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1) Switch to a newer KT333 mobo that the manufacturer has guaranteed will run future 333MHz procs.

You should really try reading the whole thread before commenting...

The Epox 8K5A2+ is both a KT333 board, the fastest one at that, and will support the 333mhz FSB Athlons.

Get some good quality PC2700 DDR SDRAM, such as Corsair, that is rated to run at CL2.

He is getting good PC2700...

3) If you don't have very good case cooling, go with that Antec case (or if you're all about spending money, get a Lian-Li, the best cases on the market). The Antec should come with a quality power supply, while the Lian-Lis don't, so I'd recommend Enermax or Antec.

Once again, a little reading would help you out here...

He is getting a Blue Chieftec Dragon (Antec 1040 Clone) with side window and fan.

Now my reasons. First off, as I said before, a processor upgrade right now is kind of silly. Don't take it personally, but unless you have money to throw around, it's a waste.

Speak for yourself. You obviously have no idea about these 1600+ CPU's. They run a 166mhz (333mhz) FSB for a speed of 1.75ghz (2100+) with no extra voltage or extreme cooling. So for a measly $52 he will have a 333mhz FSB 2100+ at least.

Secondly, you'll be able to pick up plenty of speed out of your old proc by getting 512MB of PC2700 DDR SDRAM, especially with CL2.

Actually, not quite. The older Tbird core has none of the improvements that were made to the Palomino (XP) core to better work with DDR, like hardware prefetch, and it won't benefit nearly as much from DDR as an XP will.

went from a PII 450 to an AXP 1900 recently and could barely tell the difference. I think that it was a waste of money to go with a faster proc.

That is the worst of all your comments. If you really didn't see any difference from a P2 450mhz, then you seriously did something wrong. You might try to do some actual research before blowing smoke out of your...err...making comments not based in fact.
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
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You should really try reading the whole thread before commenting... The Epox 8K5A2+ is both a KT333 board, the fastest one at that, and will support the 333mhz FSB Athlons.
Maybe you should try taking your own advice. I said what I said because he had not chosen a mobo yet. In fact, as of your post, he still hasn't. My recommendation for him is still valid; no matter what he chooses, he should go with a board that is compatible with a 333FSB.
He is getting good PC2700...
This just doesn't make sense. He still hasn't picked a brand, and in fact he asked for a brand of RAM to choose from. I told him exactly what kind of RAM to choose. You know that he's getting good PC2700? Could you please elaborate as to how you know this?

As far as the case goes, I did miss that one part. I'll concede that. However, it's still not nearly as bad as some I see that obviously just drop in a thread and post based on what the person originally said with no concern for what's been said since.

Actually, not quite. The older Tbird core has none of the improvements that were made to the Palomino (XP) core to better work with DDR, like hardware prefetch, and it won't benefit nearly as much from DDR as an XP will.
You're about half right here. No, it would not be hindered with PC133 like newer XPs would be, but he would still see (key word there is see) a difference. Speaking of noticing performance gains, this is a perfect transition to the next quote.
That is the worst of all your comments. If you really didn't see any difference from a P2 450mhz, then you seriously did something wrong. You might try to do some actual research before blowing smoke out of your...err...making comments not based in fact.
This was obviously not a statement based on fact, nor was it framed this way. Please enlighten me as to what kind of research I should do before expressing my opinion. There is not now, nor was there ever a problem with my system. I kept my PII 450 running quite well. There aren't any applications running in the background, I keep my OS and programs on an outermost partition of a WD800JB, I had 512MB of PC100 SDRAM, and it was running with a GF3 Ti200. It only got 3400 3DMarks, but it ran much better than those numbers would suggest. I will say that once I actually get back to playing a first-person shooter, I'm sure that I'll see a difference, but I've been playing Warcraft III, Icewind Dale II and Age of Kings; these games ran well before and don't run a whole lot better now because there wasn't much room for improvement. I have seen absoluetly no improvement at bootup. There were some excellent gains when first loading each individual match in Warcraft III, but it wasn't like I was waiting an hour before. I used to wait from 30 - 45 seconds to load, while now I wait about 15 - 20. A decent gain, but now I'm waiting on the other player to load, so there's little difference. Inside the game, whenever my hero came out, there used to be a half-second glitch. It was so small that it didn't even bother me. Now, there's no glitch. It wasn't a huge issue before, so there's little to talk about now. That's why I say that I have barely seen a difference. I'm sure that in first-person shooters one might see some difference in, say, Red Faction (which also ran incredibly smoothly), but would see absolutely zero difference in Quake III.

Maybe you should think about what you're saying before you start, you know, blowing smoke out of your...err...making comments... period.