Build a AMD X2 3800+ based system now or wait until Conroe?

[monstermunch]

I've just finished planning a new dual-core AMD build with the following components:

£ 70.00 Abit KN8 SLi nForce4 SLi (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-088-AB)
£ 134.94 Gigabyte GeForce 7600GT 256MB DDR3 PCIE Dual DVI S/Pipe 2
£ 200.20 AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800 + Socket 939 , Manchester Core, 2x 2.0GHz , 1MB Cache, Retail
£ 117.49 2GB (2X1GB) Corsair Value Select, DDR

£ 86.89 Antec P180 Advanced Super Midi Tower Case - No PSU (Silver) (CA-039-AN)
£ 25.81 Pioneer DVR-111DBK Black 16x16 DVD±RW Dual Layer DVD Writer (Reduced Length) OEM
£ 41.00 430w Seasonic S12-430 aPFC PSU Silent ATX2.0
£ 45.70 160 Gb Samsung HD160JJ SpinPoint P80, SATA300, 7200 rpm, 8MB Cache, NCQ, 8.9 ms

The final price is around $1500 with around $370 spent on the AMD chip.

I'm aware that AM2 will be launching in a couple of months but the performance increases don't seem worth waiting for. I've now just caught on to Intel's Conroe hype in that the chips will be about 30% faster than AMD's closest offerings and cheaper. As all benchmarks I've seen have taken place on machines organised by Intel, I'm taking these claims with a large pinch of salt.

I know there are a lot of "Should I wait for Conroe!?" threads, but given what I'm planning to spend above, would it be a better idea to wait a couple of weeks and see what Conroe is offering or will it be so expensive when it comes out that there won't be much point? For example, if I could get a Conroe chip for around $350 which is 30% faster than the AMD X2 3800+, I would consider waiting and buying it. However, if I have to pay $500 for a Conroe, I wouldn't pay that much so I would just get the above AMD system now.

I haven't upgraded for 3 years now and I've been planning the above build for ages and want to order it, but I think I've picked a bad time. :-(

Thanks.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Look at it this way: if you can wait until July to upgrade, s939 and AM2 prices will probably crash once Conroe comes out no matter how expensive Conroe is. Furthermore, the price lists released by Intel show that even the high-end Conroe chips will be in the $500 range (or thereabouts).

Waiting for Conroe makes sense if you can stand it.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Look at it this way: if you can wait until July to upgrade, s939 and AM2 prices will probably crash once Conroe comes out no matter how expensive Conroe is. Furthermore, the price lists released by Intel show that even the high-end Conroe chips will be in the $500 range (or thereabouts).

Waiting for Conroe makes sense if you can stand it.

QFT..

The only reason I am putting another opteron box together is I have excess parts so it takes little investment...

So unless you are in same boat and dont need to buy all new parts, wait until conre comes out....at least if naything to pick up some bargain chips in the Yonah, Presler, X2 and Opteron arena...

 

[monstermunch]

Do you think the price per performance drop will be so dramatic that I should wait though? I find it hard to believe that Intel is going to release a chip so fast that it makes all of AMD's _and_ Intel's line of chips look bad when they could trickle out performance increases with proportionally priced chips. For example, from the rumours I'm hearing, it sounds like when Conroe is out, the only logical choice will be to buy Conroe over all other Intel chips as they'll offer such great performance for a low price.

"even the high-end Conroe chips will be in the $500 range"
By this, do you mean that the low-end chips are going to be cheap so they'll be worth the wait?

 

[monstermunch]

"So unless you are in same boat and dont need to buy all new parts, wait until conre comes out....at least if naything to pick up some bargain chips in the Yonah, Presler, X2 and Opteron arena... "

Thanks for the feedback. Damn, I really want to upgrade my PC now because I haven't done it for so long. When upgrading, it's always tempting to wait until the "next big thing" gets released (for example, 64-bit, dual-core, DDR2, AM2, quad-core etc) and I just want to bite the bullet. You can end up waiting forever for the right moment to upgrade though. I just find it weird how Conroe is looking like a really big leap that I should wait for as you would think that the market prices for chips/performance would reflect the situation, or will this not happen until Conroe is actually released?

 

[Markfw]

I wouldn;t wait. Conroe is still a while out, and the prices posted arn;t guaranteed until you see it for sale. Also, what will the motherboards cost ? many unanswered questions. I say go.

 

[Duvie]

I say wait cause it is soooo close....I am not syaing he will get a Conroe....The price on yonah (core duo) chips could come down in price and clock for clock they are as good as an AMD chip now.....

I am just saying often times I tell ppl not too wait, but in this case I think it is worth holding on...this is a new architecture....not just a new stepping or a speed upgrade....

If the prices are close to what we have been told they will lead price performance....clock for clock supposed to gain 20% on AMD chips and 40% on INtel chip....it will drop the prices of INtel's line...it will have to!!!!

 

[monstermunch]

"If the prices are close to what we have been told they will lead price performance....clock for clock supposed to gain 20% on AMD chips and 40% on INtel chip....it will drop the prices of INtel's line...it will have to!!!! "

My problem is that I would have to wait through May, June and July and as the Conroe chip's will be brand new then, they'll be at their most expensive. Is it normal for a brand new performance smashing chip to be released cheap at launch? So I might get three months down the line and think "well, I should wait 2 months until the Conroe is more affordable". Then after I wait, something else is going to come along that's near release (e.g. new graphics card, new graphics card slot, quad-core, 1024-bit optical chips, quantum computers etc) and I'll never upgrade. :-(

20% increase in performance doesn't seem that big a deal. If I get the above system, I can get a new graphics card after a year or two to keep it going and then get whatever new fangled technology is out on the third year. Does that sound sensible or would it be better to wait? Put it this way, is the choice something along the lines of, "wait 3 or 4 months to upgrade, and for the same price you could get a computer that is around 30% faster than the proposed one"?

 

[skooma]

I know I'm waiting. In fact, I'll probably sell one of my x2 3800/dfi rigs if you're interested. It has a throw away graphic card in it now so you could pick whatever you want. And despite having the dfi board, its been treated with kids gloves as I haven't the time to mess around with it.

 

[JOS]

Hi there,
I'm in the predicament as you at this point. I also am upgrading to an X2 3800+, or at least, that's what I have planned. I haven't bought anything yet but I'm ready to do it.
The thing that is bothering me a little right now is that I read a thread somewhere that AMD is planning on increasing the price of the dual core chips starting May 15th. So, if you have decided to wait for the release of Conroe and then you decide to go AMD you'll be buying the X2 3800 at a higher price. In my case, I've decided to buy the X2 3800 no matter what since there always be better and faster systems than yours and it is just difficult to keep up with the latest. For me, my goal is to increase productivity and stability by having a faster processor than my 866Mz intel and have more RAM than my 512MB that I have to have because my MOBO can't handle more. Also, I want to be able to have several apps opened without paying a penalty in performace. All of this I can get from the X2 3800+ right now, as long as I have no regrets later I'm happy, and I suspect that I'll have no regrets if I go with the X2 3800. Good luck!

 

[robertk2012]

Originally posted by: JOS
Hi there,
I'm in the predicament as you at this point. I also am upgrading to an X2 3800+, or at least, that's what I have planned. I haven't bought anything yet but I'm ready to do it.
The thing that is bothering me a little right now is that I read a thread somewhere that AMD is planning on increasing the price of the dual core chips starting May 15th. So, if you have decided to wait for the release of Conroe and then you decide to go AMD you'll be buying the X2 3800 at a higher price. In my case, I've decided to buy the X2 3800 no matter what since there always be better and faster systems than yours and it is just difficult to keep up with the latest. For me, my goal is to increase productivity and stability by having a faster processor than my 866Mz intel and have more RAM than my 512MB that I have to have because my MOBO can't handle more. Also, I want to be able to have several apps opened without paying a penalty in performace. All of this I can get from the X2 3800+ right now, as long as I have no regrets later I'm happy, and I suspect that I'll have no regrets if I go with the X2 3800. Good luck!

AMD increase the price of dual core chips? WTF are they trying to go out of business.

 

[Brunnis]

Originally posted by: monstermunch
My problem is that I would have to wait through May, June and July and as the Conroe chip's will be brand new then, they'll be at their most expensive.

What you have to remember is that Intel is replacing the whole Netburst line with the new Core CPUs. This is not just a case of a new CPU taking over the top end. Intel's current CPUs are simply put not good enough when faced with the competing AMD chips and Intel knows this too. This is why Conroe based chips are supposed to be released at very nice prices.

Ohh, and I would most definitely wait. You will probably be able to buy a significantly faster Conroe CPU for the price of that 3800+. It should also be quite a bit cooler, which is a nice bonus.

 

[monstermunch]

If it makes any difference, I'm currently on an AMD 2500 Barton Core, with 512Mb of RAM and a Geforce 5200 FX, so I'm not just doing a minor upgrade and I haven't done a proper upgrade for years. Does anyone have any more words of advice? I'd like to hear some more opinions. Thanks to everyone that has responded already.

 

[o2brew]

If the only reason you are upgrading is to scratch your upgrade itch, wait. Is there something you need your computer to do that it is currently not capable of doing? I'd like a faster computer too, but I understand that my current machine is getting the job done just fine. A 2500+ Barton, btw. I will wait until at least this fall before upgrading.

If on the other hand your productivity is being hindered by your current machine then go ahead and upgrade now. Do you need to upgrade, or is it just a want?

 

[robertk2012]

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol you will be glad you did. just give it a couple months. Start with a new case and powersupply if you just have to do something. If you see a really good hard drive deal snag it.

 

[monstermunch]

"If the only reason you are upgrading is to scratch your upgrade itch, wait. Is there something you need your computer to do that it is currently not capable of doing? I'd like a faster computer too, but I understand that my current machine is getting the job done just fine. A 2500+ Barton, btw. I will wait until at least this fall before upgrading.

If on the other hand your productivity is being hindered by your current machine then go ahead and upgrade now. Do you need to upgrade, or is it just a want?"

My current graphics card (Geforce 5200 FX) isn't powerful enough for the latest games is the major thing. I want to buy a new one, but if I get an AGP card, I won't be able to use it if I upgrade my motherboard to PCI-Express (that's assuming I don't ditch the card when I need a new CPU of course). My PSU is failing so I need a new one. I want a P180 Antec case to help silence my machine. More memory and dual core would also be great for desktop responsiveness.

And, um, none of us really _need_ a computer, do we?

So my, main options are:
* Wait 2 months until Conroe chips start coming out and get a whole new machine then (is 2 months accurate?).
* Get a whole new machine now but it will be, say 30% slower than the one if I wait (is 30% slower a fair estimate?).
* Upgrade just my (AGP) graphics card and maybe (DDR) memory now to keep me ticking over, but I won't be able to use these is several months time when I upgrade everything else.

I know we don't know the full details yet, but the Conroe benchmarks we've seen are likely to be a little above what to expect from the real ones. If this is the case, what kind of performance increase would these have over a 3800 X2 AMD? I'm just having real trouble believing that Intel is going to release a chip that is 30% - 100% better than the same priced AMD chip.

 

[Pederv]

If you need a new system get it.
For all we know Intel is prommising the the fastest processor in the world for pennies on the dollar, just to make AMD's Q2 profits go down.

 

[Duvie]

What do you want to do with this system???

If all you really do is gaming then get a reasonably priced cpu and spend the cash on the best vid card you can afford...

 

[monstermunch]

I want to play recent/past (Quake 4, Far Cry, Half Life 2, Civ 4, F.E.A.R, Age of Empires 3) and some upcoming games with decent graphics settings so they look nice; the 7600GT seems good enough for this. I run a lot of applications at once when doing desktop work (email, web, editors, compiling) and frequently get thrashing from not having enough memory (1 or 2 GB would be good) and I'm finding slightly unresponsive GUIs more annoying now (dual core would help).

 

[Henny]

Definately wait if you can. Things are going to get very exciting in a couple months.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: monstermunch
I want to play recent/past (Quake 4, Far Cry, Half Life 2, Civ 4, F.E.A.R, Age of Empires 3) and some upcoming games with decent graphics settings so they look nice; the 7600GT seems good enough for this. I run a lot of applications at once when doing desktop work (email, web, editors, compiling) and frequently get thrashing from not having enough memory (1 or 2 GB would be good) and I'm finding slightly unresponsive GUIs more annoying now (dual core would help).

Well, I think an X2 would do fine for what you are doing. I myself would go the extra for a 7900 GT, but whatever....

 

[monstermunch]

By the way, for everyone waiting for the Conroe to come out, what are you needing to do that requires the performance increase?

I've read a few hype articles about Conroe now and lots of newsgroup threads. There are a lot of unknowns, such as retail date/price, motherboard price etc. and what the speed benefits are. The general consensus does seem to be that AMD should be very worried though, which is why I'm hesitating myself.

Basically, I'm worried that if I wait until the June Conroe release date (which could be missed), it could take a while for the CPUs to hit the shops and for the prices to go down, the motherboards might be expensive, there might be incompatibilities with Linux (this is a big issue for me; it takes a while to find out what parts will work in Linux before buying them) etc. If I wait, I might not end up upgrading until early next year (and quad cores are arriving then...) and I'll kick myself for not upgrading now.

Most of the posters so far are saying wait though, but most of you guys seem to have chips that cost over $500 (my upgrade seems fairly modest) and these would have been even more expensive on the date you bought them.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: monstermunch
By the way, for everyone waiting for the Conroe to come out, what are you needing to do that requires the performance increase?

I've read a few hype articles about Conroe now and lots of newsgroup threads. There are a lot of unknowns, such as retail date/price, motherboard price etc. and what the speed benefits are. The general consensus does seem to be that AMD should be very worried though, which is why I'm hesitating myself.

Basically, I'm worried that if I wait until the June Conroe release date (which could be missed), it could take a while for the CPUs to hit the shops and for the prices to go down, the motherboards might be expensive, there might be incompatibilities with Linux (this is a big issue for me; it takes a while to find out what parts will work in Linux before buying them) etc. If I wait, I might not end up upgrading until early next year (and quad cores are arriving then...) and I'll kick myself for not upgrading now.

Most of the posters so far are saying wait though, but most of you guys seem to have chips that cost over $500 (my upgrade seems fairly modest) and these would have been even more expensive on the date you bought them.

look at my rig now!!! I always need more power....LOL!!!

The problem is....The cheapest dual core offering (opteron 165 @ 1.8ghz) will be beat by the cheapest and slowest conroe by all accounts....2.13ghz conroe is going to beat the 1.8ghz by a good margin since it would still beat a opty 175 by 15%+.....By all accounts it will be in the 200 dollar range...

Yes you could say new mobos will be a premium, but imagine what the new conroe 65nm parts are goinmg to be able to oc to.....If there will be an EE model at 3.33ghz I imagine most 65nm parts will hit 3ghz easy....By all accounts it will take 3.6ghz Athlon to compete...I haven't seen to many of those even on phase cooling....


Like I said this is no simple cpu speed change...it is new architecture....

You asked for my opinion and I am telling you....If I was upgrading no matter the system I currently have I would wait....I think conroe will be cheap enough for the masses and budget users....


I

 

[Kakumba]

I have been trying to convince myself to wait, and I ahve given up, im getting a new Opty 165 build. and heres why:

1. Too many unkowns of both AM2 and Conroe. AM2, new socket, new chipsets, im not too keen on Gen 1 hardware, and the motherboard selection wotn be wide enough I dont think (Im getting a DFI Expert for this build, I dont see a mobo that mature being avaiable at launch)

2. Supply. This may not be much of an issue over there, but here in NZ, it will be months before we have real supply of parts at reasonable prices (this includes DDR2, incredibly)

3. I cant wait. I needed this computer a while ago really, so I really just want to get this thing up and running asap. old system is a Duron 1300MHz, still running '98 (hey, im poor)

So, I have started buying my new comp, and 939 will live on for 2 more years (for me at least)

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: monstermunch

"even the high-end Conroe chips will be in the $500 range"
By this, do you mean that the low-end chips are going to be cheap so they'll be worth the wait?

That's actually a good point. Who's to say what we saw in the preview was a souped up conroe that's going to be 800 dollars while the AM2 will perform at least on par with the 200-400 dollar counter parts?

Can someone say pass the ketch-up?