"Plus, no way an early 70's model Firebird could run 10's with factory parts, even the most exotic parts. They just weren't capable, then or now, of the kind of horsepower you could get out of a Chevy"
The nothing special about it '70 Chevelle LS-6 SS454 could pull deep into the twelves with nothing but a set of slicks. That was a regular production car, and the Chevelle was significantly heavier then a T/A. NHRA drag cars, which the "back door" T/As pretty much were, were running much faster then their pedestrian regular production offerings. Not capable of the kind of power you can get out of a Chevy? That makes absolutely no sense, at all. Do you say the same about the nigh identical Oldsmobile engines?(I'll wait for a reply before I say why).
"Nope. All Pontiac V-8 blocks are exactly the same size externally, so there is no such thing as a "big block" Pontiac, not like a big block or small block Chevy or Ford."
No, not all Pontiac V-8 blocks are the same size. The difference between a 455 cid and a 303 cid(engine used for the actual "Trans-Am" series) in external dimensions is quite large. No, they don't have a clearly defined difference in bore center spacing as the Chevy offerings do(which is the determining factor between big block and small block Chevys, not the actual exterior physical size of the block), but they certainly do not all match up in exterior dimmensions.
The nothing special about it '70 Chevelle LS-6 SS454 could pull deep into the twelves with nothing but a set of slicks. That was a regular production car, and the Chevelle was significantly heavier then a T/A. NHRA drag cars, which the "back door" T/As pretty much were, were running much faster then their pedestrian regular production offerings. Not capable of the kind of power you can get out of a Chevy? That makes absolutely no sense, at all. Do you say the same about the nigh identical Oldsmobile engines?(I'll wait for a reply before I say why).
"Nope. All Pontiac V-8 blocks are exactly the same size externally, so there is no such thing as a "big block" Pontiac, not like a big block or small block Chevy or Ford."
No, not all Pontiac V-8 blocks are the same size. The difference between a 455 cid and a 303 cid(engine used for the actual "Trans-Am" series) in external dimensions is quite large. No, they don't have a clearly defined difference in bore center spacing as the Chevy offerings do(which is the determining factor between big block and small block Chevys, not the actual exterior physical size of the block), but they certainly do not all match up in exterior dimmensions.
Hey Guys, I've been lerking around here for a couple days looking up info for my new computer. I haven't post anything but when I saw this I had to.
I own a 87' Grand National mostly stock with 75,000 miles on it. They are awesome to drive. As most people have said when they where new the magazines tested them at 0-60 times 4.9seconds and 1/4mile in 13.8 to 14.2. It makes it the quickest production car built in the 80's(includes any European car too). I have an awesome video that motor trend did test a GNX vs. an 87' vette. The GNX beat it by about 4 car lengths in the quarter 13.3xx (the only thing they did was put slicks on each one. They rated the Horse/Torque low from the factory like the Sy/Typhoons and the new SS camaros. GM has this thing that nothing can have a higher rating than the corvettes (87' had 275). The GNX puts about (300hp and 395f/lb of torque at the wheels! Regular GN's and T-Type put about 15 less hp and torque.
Don't get me wrong, I love new camaros but I hate when people compare new car against older ones and especially a stock car vs. a non-stock. I could list a hundred people with street driven GN's doing 8 and 9 sec quarters. And the fastest one runs a 6.4 with a 3.8liter.
(cable god) that is an awesome setup, Any pics?. That is crazy that you can afford all of that. The only bad thing is that I don't have $32,000 for the SS and at least $10,000 for the supercharge kit. To get that boost you had to of rebuilt the brand new engine.
All it takes is $1,500 to get a GN into the 10's.
Unlike camaros they don't loose half off their value every year. The price in GN's are going up. My car for example is appraised at $14,000 to $15,000 dollars (GN's sold for 15,000 to 18,000 new) and GNX go for about $35,000. For me (age 17) Insurance is 130 month for full coverage (270 for a camaro).
Turbo reliability is all in the matter of the driver. Every turbo car is as reliable as the next. When the GNX's were new the richer people bought them as a sub. for the vette and didn't know how to take care of a turbo. 18 wheelers get around 500,000 miles on their turbos.
The Buick was not designed to be in autocrossing events, they are for speed. But most have posi, they all had huge front and rear sway bars etc... They pull high (.86 to .89) on skid pads(as good as 80's camaros and vettes). Alot of guy autocross thier cars and they do awesome(in their class). I know guy pulling .95g's on just new(tires, wheels, springs, shocks)
Engine recipes
http://www.gnttype.org
Info on what is diff. for the GNX
http://www.infinet.com/~rowilson/gnx.html
Message board
http://www.turbobuick.com
good videos and pics
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/index.html
Pics of GN's:
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwestgn1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwestgn4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwengine1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwengine3.jpg
BTW, any ??? or comment welcome
Sorry for the long post,
Jason
I own a 87' Grand National mostly stock with 75,000 miles on it. They are awesome to drive. As most people have said when they where new the magazines tested them at 0-60 times 4.9seconds and 1/4mile in 13.8 to 14.2. It makes it the quickest production car built in the 80's(includes any European car too). I have an awesome video that motor trend did test a GNX vs. an 87' vette. The GNX beat it by about 4 car lengths in the quarter 13.3xx (the only thing they did was put slicks on each one. They rated the Horse/Torque low from the factory like the Sy/Typhoons and the new SS camaros. GM has this thing that nothing can have a higher rating than the corvettes (87' had 275). The GNX puts about (300hp and 395f/lb of torque at the wheels! Regular GN's and T-Type put about 15 less hp and torque.
Don't get me wrong, I love new camaros but I hate when people compare new car against older ones and especially a stock car vs. a non-stock. I could list a hundred people with street driven GN's doing 8 and 9 sec quarters. And the fastest one runs a 6.4 with a 3.8liter.
(cable god) that is an awesome setup, Any pics?. That is crazy that you can afford all of that. The only bad thing is that I don't have $32,000 for the SS and at least $10,000 for the supercharge kit. To get that boost you had to of rebuilt the brand new engine.
All it takes is $1,500 to get a GN into the 10's.
Unlike camaros they don't loose half off their value every year. The price in GN's are going up. My car for example is appraised at $14,000 to $15,000 dollars (GN's sold for 15,000 to 18,000 new) and GNX go for about $35,000. For me (age 17) Insurance is 130 month for full coverage (270 for a camaro).
Turbo reliability is all in the matter of the driver. Every turbo car is as reliable as the next. When the GNX's were new the richer people bought them as a sub. for the vette and didn't know how to take care of a turbo. 18 wheelers get around 500,000 miles on their turbos.
The Buick was not designed to be in autocrossing events, they are for speed. But most have posi, they all had huge front and rear sway bars etc... They pull high (.86 to .89) on skid pads(as good as 80's camaros and vettes). Alot of guy autocross thier cars and they do awesome(in their class). I know guy pulling .95g's on just new(tires, wheels, springs, shocks)
Engine recipes
http://www.gnttype.org
Info on what is diff. for the GNX
http://www.infinet.com/~rowilson/gnx.html
Message board
http://www.turbobuick.com
good videos and pics
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/index.html
Pics of GN's:
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwestgn1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwestgn4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwengine1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/multimedia/jwengine3.jpg
BTW, any ??? or comment welcome
Sorry for the long post,
Jason
Hey Skoorb, my first time racing at a track in any car was about 2 weekends ago. The best I pulled of with was a 9.03 in the 1/8mile.
9.03 X 1.57 = 14.18
That was with very little powerbraking and BFG 235/60's and 93 octane. Motor Trend did it on full slicks and with little powerbraking the Sh!t out of it. You can put race gas in and some drag radials on a stock one and run mid twevles all day.
The thing that made me fall in love with the car is the look. It looks a ton better than the MCSS and outpowers that wimpy 150hp 305v8.
And This Thankgiving, My Mom, Dad, Uncle and I (With 4 suitcases in the trunk)went to my grandparents house. Plenty for power and the back seats are as roomy as the fronts all the while geting 22mpg on the trip. And my fully optioned car with T-tops, steel wheels and spare weight in at 3450 pounds, just alittle more than a new SS (100 pounds)
9.03 X 1.57 = 14.18
That was with very little powerbraking and BFG 235/60's and 93 octane. Motor Trend did it on full slicks and with little powerbraking the Sh!t out of it. You can put race gas in and some drag radials on a stock one and run mid twevles all day.
The thing that made me fall in love with the car is the look. It looks a ton better than the MCSS and outpowers that wimpy 150hp 305v8.
And This Thankgiving, My Mom, Dad, Uncle and I (With 4 suitcases in the trunk)went to my grandparents house. Plenty for power and the back seats are as roomy as the fronts all the while geting 22mpg on the trip. And my fully optioned car with T-tops, steel wheels and spare weight in at 3450 pounds, just alittle more than a new SS (100 pounds)
<<The nothing special about it '70 Chevelle LS-6 SS454 could pull deep into the twelves with nothing but a set of slicks>>
Nothing special, it just had 11-1 compression, a solid lifter cam, huge rectangular port heads, 850 Holley carb, etc, and about 500+ true horsepower, more than ANY factory Pontiac engine ever had. Let me drive one of those now and I'll run it well into the 12's on street tires.
<<and the Chevelle was significantly heavier then a T/A. >>
No. Both cars weigh in around 3700lbs. (give or take 150 or so depending on options)
<<Not capable of the kind of power you can get out of a Chevy? That makes absolutely no sense, at all. >>
Sure it does. You simply cannot, using factory or aftermarket parts, get the power from a Pontiac, Olds, Buick, or Cadillac as you can from a big block chevy. There are simply no factory or aftermarket heads available for any of those engines that can flow like the HP big block Chevy heads.
<<Do you say the same about the nigh identical Oldsmobile engines>>
Yes I do, but those engines are not even close to being the same engine as Pontiac. In fact, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all made 455" engines that are all completely different, with no common parts.
<<No, not all Pontiac V-8 blocks are the same size>>
Yes, all PRODUCTION blocks from 326-455 are exactly the same physical size. Only the cylinder bores are different.
<<The difference between a 455 cid and a 303 cid(engine used for the actual "Trans-Am" series) in external dimensions is quite large. >>
Not really. Besides, the 303 was a very, very, rare, race-only engine, NEVER available in any car. It wasn't that much different, though. The heads from other Pontiac V-8's and other internal parts still fit on it.
I've never heard of any so-called "back door" Trans Ams available in the early 70's. If there were, the only way they could have managed 10's in the 1/4 is to have been lightened considerably. The T/A was a heavy car. I know, I have one. It weighed 3789lbs without me in it with a 400" engine. A Chevelle weighs roughly the same, or lighter.
Also of note, Pontiac never used domed pistons to change compression, they used different size combustion chambers. Nice idea, since flat-top pistons promote better flame travel without a big dome to get in the way.
Nothing special, it just had 11-1 compression, a solid lifter cam, huge rectangular port heads, 850 Holley carb, etc, and about 500+ true horsepower, more than ANY factory Pontiac engine ever had. Let me drive one of those now and I'll run it well into the 12's on street tires.
<<and the Chevelle was significantly heavier then a T/A. >>
No. Both cars weigh in around 3700lbs. (give or take 150 or so depending on options)
<<Not capable of the kind of power you can get out of a Chevy? That makes absolutely no sense, at all. >>
Sure it does. You simply cannot, using factory or aftermarket parts, get the power from a Pontiac, Olds, Buick, or Cadillac as you can from a big block chevy. There are simply no factory or aftermarket heads available for any of those engines that can flow like the HP big block Chevy heads.
<<Do you say the same about the nigh identical Oldsmobile engines>>
Yes I do, but those engines are not even close to being the same engine as Pontiac. In fact, Buick, Olds and Pontiac all made 455" engines that are all completely different, with no common parts.
<<No, not all Pontiac V-8 blocks are the same size>>
Yes, all PRODUCTION blocks from 326-455 are exactly the same physical size. Only the cylinder bores are different.
<<The difference between a 455 cid and a 303 cid(engine used for the actual "Trans-Am" series) in external dimensions is quite large. >>
Not really. Besides, the 303 was a very, very, rare, race-only engine, NEVER available in any car. It wasn't that much different, though. The heads from other Pontiac V-8's and other internal parts still fit on it.
I've never heard of any so-called "back door" Trans Ams available in the early 70's. If there were, the only way they could have managed 10's in the 1/4 is to have been lightened considerably. The T/A was a heavy car. I know, I have one. It weighed 3789lbs without me in it with a 400" engine. A Chevelle weighs roughly the same, or lighter.
Also of note, Pontiac never used domed pistons to change compression, they used different size combustion chambers. Nice idea, since flat-top pistons promote better flame travel without a big dome to get in the way.
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