Buffet says tax the super rich

[sarsipias1234]

Depends on how you define greed. Enlightened self interest - meaning a desire to better oneself, to give one's children a better life with more opportunities, or as Bowfinger called it a little bit of greed - is the root of all societal progress. It's the reason that we are not all subsistence farmers with an average life expectancy of thirty years. It's the reason that a child with influenza can expect to live rather than die, at least in the Western societies. Greed is only a bad thing when it is extreme, or when it is not tempered with other, stronger positive qualities like compassion and love. And even then, greed has little ill effects except where paired with power.

Needs are inherently selfish. We all require basic needs to survive as human beings.

Greed is wanting more than you need.

Synergy generates wealth not greed.

People working together in unison.

Greed destroys this unity.

Together we stand divided we fall.

I was raised Catholic and who knows sin better than a Catholic!

Just look at the amazing things America has done in the past!

We had only 200 million people America in 1969 yet we worked together to create the synergy required to send a man to the moon!

America no longer has this unity. Our leaders have repeatedly failed us morally and ethically to the point most honest people are forced to act immoral and unethical just to keep up with the corruption.

 

[alkemyst]

Without more than you need today, the bigger the chances to end up like you tomorrow, just saying.

DO NOT WANT.

The poor have some crazy ideas on what the rich are / do.

We live in a capitalist society. The goal has always been to be the most successful you can. We are bastardizing that into some communal / welfare state where we need to coddle those that don't want to take any initiative.

Being you are saying you are comfortable while living in poverty shows some kind of mental issue or you are actually not really in poverty.

 

[alkemyst]

Also as a catholic since you added that , why is your god punishing you or are you simply not a great catholic?

 

[sarsipias1234]

I don't believe in organized religion at this point in my life. However, I believe I am very fortunate to have been raised under strict morals and ethics.

I am more healthy mentally than most people I know.

Most people in California are very mentally ill.

25% of Californians are on disability.

My income is at poverty level but I live well within my means and carefully plan my finances.

My income has always been around the poverty level.

I suffered from sleep apnea my whole life due to congenital birth defects to my soft palate which also affected my hearing and nasal breathing.

I was a mouth breather in other words. I felt stupid my whole life because of my lack of sleep. I could not focus correctly or function normally like most people. I was relegated to part time jobs and very little social interaction. In 2006 I was diagnosed with sleep apnea and have now been more functional and successful in the last 5 years than I have been in my entire life.

By you saying that I am mentally ill to be comfortable at poverty level income says that you are not comfortable with poverty income yourself.

I am very comfortable only because I have made very smart decisions in my life financially.

I believe I make such good financial decisions because I had to because of my sleep apnea.

My sleep apnea limited me so much that I had to be super frugal to survive.

I sincerely believe that to live the American capitalistic lifestyle is to guarantee some mental illness of some sort.

Just look at the lifetime prevalence of mental illness in America. The rate is over 50% I believe for ages 18 to 44.

Yes, here: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/1ANYDIS_ADULT.shtml

 

[werepossum]

Needs are inherently selfish. We all require basic needs to survive as human beings.

Greed is wanting more than you need.

Synergy generates wealth not greed.

People working together in unison.

Greed destroys this unity.

Together we stand divided we fall.

I was raised Catholic and who knows sin better than a Catholic!

Just look at the amazing things America has done in the past!

We had only 200 million people America in 1969 yet we worked together to create the synergy required to send a man to the moon!

America no longer has this unity. Our leaders have repeatedly failed us morally and ethically to the point most honest people are forced to act immoral and unethical just to keep up with the corruption.

I disagree with almost all of that. If no one wanted more than he needed, we'd all still be subsistence farmers since no one really needs more than shelter and sustenance. Sleep apnea treatment wouldn't even be something people could imagine, much less produce.

Synergy is merely a catch phrase. We sent a man to the moon because we had a President able to dream, and to sell his dream to others, and because we had a technological society built on capitalism that could provide the education, skills and surplus production to allow government to realize that dream.

I commend you for being able to live happily on little income, but that doesn't provide progress. Three hundred million people happy to live at the poverty level would be stagnation. Progress stems from those individuals who imagine a better way to do something and are willing to spend their time and treasure to make that image real. Capitalism - meaning principally a system of enlightened self interest where people compete to advance themselves and their families - has proven by far the best way to accomplish this advancement. Even China, the great nation that based everything on the concept of sacrificing for the greater good, has now embraced capitalism, communism's polar opposite, and is rapidly pulling itself out of poverty.

 

[Jhhnn]

Progress stems from those individuals who imagine a better way to do something and are willing to spend their time and treasure to make that image real. Capitalism - meaning principally a system of enlightened self interest where people compete to advance themselves and their families - has proven by far the best way to accomplish this advancement. Even China, the great nation that based everything on the concept of sacrificing for the greater good, has now embraced capitalism, communism's polar opposite, and is rapidly pulling itself out of poverty.

Your assumptions of enlightenment are pollyanna-ish. Where was that enlightenment in the paroxysm of greed at the top that was the Ownership Society, anyway? The stock market bubble of the 1920's? The run-ups to the panics of 1893 & 1873?

Your reference to China is interesting, anyway. Under the Nationalist Govt, Capitalism had evolved into its natural result- plutocracy & cronyism in the extreme. It took the leveling of the old order through the revolution to create a level enough playing field for widespread growth & participation in the new economic order that is China today.

Are we too blind to see that we need to reign in capitalism & the concentration of wealth & income to avoid the need for that sort of leveling in our own society?

 

[bfdd]

Without more than you need today, the bigger the chances to end up like you tomorrow, just saying.

DO NOT WANT.

The poor have some crazy ideas on what the rich are / do.

We live in a capitalist society. The goal has always been to be the most successful you can. We are bastardizing that into some communal / welfare state where we need to coddle those that don't want to take any initiative.

Being you are saying you are comfortable while living in poverty shows some kind of mental issue or you are actually not really in poverty.

It's already reached down to children too. No winners or losers, score not being kept. That's fucking bullshit! I hated losing in sports, hated it, would make me push myself and my other teammates harder so we could win next time. You take away the win/lose aspect and what else is there to "fight" for? Nothing. Competition breathes life into people.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's already reached down to children too. No winners or losers, score not being kept. That's fucking bullshit! I hated losing in sports, hated it, would make me push myself and my other teammates harder so we could win next time. You take away the win/lose aspect and what else is there to "fight" for? Nothing. Competition breathes life into people.

Sounds peachy & all, except that participation in the economy is not voluntary, unlike sport, and the super rich will continue to compete simply because they're like you, hyper competitive, regardless of the level of taxation. They already exist at a level of wealth & income where they engage in competition for its own sake, not for financial rewards that will improve their lifestyles.

It's all about power, power over their peers & the rest of society, the power to impose their will.

 

[sarsipias1234]

I disagree with almost all of that. If no one wanted more than he needed, we'd all still be subsistence farmers since no one really needs more than shelter and sustenance. Sleep apnea treatment wouldn't even be something people could imagine, much less produce.

Synergy is merely a catch phrase. We sent a man to the moon because we had a President able to dream, and to sell his dream to others, and because we had a technological society built on capitalism that could provide the education, skills and surplus production to allow government to realize that dream.

I commend you for being able to live happily on little income, but that doesn't provide progress. Three hundred million people happy to live at the poverty level would be stagnation. Progress stems from those individuals who imagine a better way to do something and are willing to spend their time and treasure to make that image real. Capitalism - meaning principally a system of enlightened self interest where people compete to advance themselves and their families - has proven by far the best way to accomplish this advancement. Even China, the great nation that based everything on the concept of sacrificing for the greater good, has now embraced capitalism, communism's polar opposite, and is rapidly pulling itself out of poverty.

Yes, Capitalism did work but no longer works because of exponential population growth and limited natural resources.

When there were only 200 million people in the U.S in 1969 there was a lot more wealth to go around because resources were plentiful in relation to the world population.

Einstein wrote a paper about this called "Why Socialism?" in 1949.

Einstein believe that population explosion would force socialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F

Even Isaac Asimov believed population explosion to be the real problem.

Asimov quotes:

"It is no longer possible to solve the real problems of our planet by working on the assumption that the world is infinite."

"Science, in other words, cannot keep up with populations no matter what it does."

"...democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people into the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more people there are, the less one individual matters."

Just look at how many people die each day from starvation today alone.

This is the ultimate end result of the WIN-LOSE scenario: Relatively few rich people controlling most wealth as the winners and the 16000 children dying each day from starvation as the losers.

Synergy is real. How can you say that synergy is a catch phrase?

Why do people work in groups if there is nothing to gain from unity in purpose? People working together in unison is the only way to get anything meaningful done in a period of time that is maximally beneficial.

Take the example of the bucket brigade before pressurized water systems. The only way to keep entire towns from burning down was people working together in a line. No other means would give them the chance to fight the fire. This is synergy.

 

[sarsipias1234]

It's already reached down to children too. No winners or losers, score not being kept. That's fucking bullshit! I hated losing in sports, hated it, would make me push myself and my other teammates harder so we could win next time. You take away the win/lose aspect and what else is there to "fight" for? Nothing. Competition breathes life into people.

I never participated in sports when younger because the parents involved in the sports were nasty and mean people.

High school in America is nothing more than an indoctrination into the world of capitalism.

I hated high school myself as I did not fit in because of my disabilities. I was automatically a LOSER!

This is what we have taught in our schools for years: IF YOUR NOT FIRST, YOUR LAST! Ricky Bobby.

You know what breathes even more life into people than competition? People working together in unison to achieve something greater than themselves and in return benefiting from the resulting synergy. This is the ultimate WIN-WIN scenario.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Just because someone is in favor of social welfare programs does NOT mean they want to live in a communist/socialist society. We can have a modicum of social welfare programs for those that are TRULY in need, have hit hard times, and have no other alternative (e.g. single mother raising kids on her own after dead-beat dad bolts). Otherwise, these are the people that end up resorting to crime, prostitution, and drugs to make ends meet. And their kids end up following down the same path. These programs need to be temporary in nature, however, otherwise we're just encouraging people to be lazy and not work. There needs to be some accountability and people need to show that they are working towards finding employment and bettering themselves if they want assistance.

I think we are at our best when those that have are lending a hand to the have-nots and bringing everyone up. I don't think this has to conflict with a capitalist economy and I don't think this means I'm a socialist or a communist.

 

[sarsipias1234]

I disagree with almost all of that. If no one wanted more than he needed, we'd all still be subsistence farmers since no one really needs more than shelter and sustenance. Sleep apnea treatment wouldn't even be something people could imagine, much less produce.

Synergy is merely a catch phrase. We sent a man to the moon because we had a President able to dream, and to sell his dream to others, and because we had a technological society built on capitalism that could provide the education, skills and surplus production to allow government to realize that dream.

I commend you for being able to live happily on little income, but that doesn't provide progress. Three hundred million people happy to live at the poverty level would be stagnation. Progress stems from those individuals who imagine a better way to do something and are willing to spend their time and treasure to make that image real. Capitalism - meaning principally a system of enlightened self interest where people compete to advance themselves and their families - has proven by far the best way to accomplish this advancement. Even China, the great nation that based everything on the concept of sacrificing for the greater good, has now embraced capitalism, communism's polar opposite, and is rapidly pulling itself out of poverty.

cap·i·tal·ism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

No mention of enlightenment being a requirement in these private people.

Enlightened self-interest is like saying "I am aware of my greed". Self-interest is either greed or need based behavior.

enlightened: factually well-informed, tolerant of alternative opinions, and guided by rational thought.

So to be enlightened is to be guided by rational thought.

Yet self-interest is greed, which is irrational.

Or self-interest is need, which is based on physiological requirements that are instinctual or not requiring rational thought.

Enlightened Greed is a more appropriate as this highlights the contradiction in terms.

Or Enlightened Irrationality!

 

[TehMac]

Warren Buffett owns insurance companies that will benefit from an increase in death taxes and so forth.

America, especially productive Americans (i.e. upper & middle class) will not.

 

[dmcowen674]

I believe most poor people choose to be poor

WTF???

 

[sarsipias1234]

WTF???

Most people I have met that have very little money do not obtain happiness via money.

They reject the idea that greed will buy them happiness.

I had met one person at my last sales job that said to me that if he ever lost his house and was poor he would kill himself. I believed him because his brother killed himself as well for the same reasons.

Don't know if he is still alive but he sure was mentally ill.

Problem is most of the employees at this company felt the exact same way.

I quit soon after I was asked to participate in price fixing between local retail stores that where all owned by the same company but with different names.

I won't name the company but the company is a mult-ibillion dollar company in northern california.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, Capitalism did work but no longer works because of exponential population growth and limited natural resources.

When there were only 200 million people in the U.S in 1969 there was a lot more wealth to go around because resources were plentiful in relation to the world population.

Einstein wrote a paper about this called "Why Socialism?" in 1949.

Einstein believe that population explosion would force socialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism?

Even Isaac Asimov believed population explosion to be the real problem.

Asimov quotes:

"It is no longer possible to solve the real problems of our planet by working on the assumption that the world is infinite."

"Science, in other words, cannot keep up with populations no matter what it does."

"...democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people into the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more people there are, the less one individual matters."

Just look at how many people die each day from starvation today alone.

This is the ultimate end result of the WIN-LOSE scenario: Relatively few rich people controlling most wealth as the winners and the 16000 children dying each day from starvation as the losers.

Synergy is real. How can you say that synergy is a catch phrase?

Why do people work in groups if there is nothing to gain from unity in purpose? People working together in unison is the only way to get anything meaningful done in a period of time that is maximally beneficial.

Take the example of the bucket brigade before pressurized water systems. The only way to keep entire towns from burning down was people working together in a line. No other means would give them the chance to fight the fire. This is synergy.

Yes, socialism is the bucket brigade. Everyone is equal, no one gets rich. Synergy for all!

Capitalism is inventing the fire truck, pressurized water piping systems, practical fire hoses and nozzles, flame-resistant clothing, self-contained breathing apparatus. Some people get rich, but everyone benefits. Even those who are disgruntled that some got rich.

 

[cubby1223]

Warren Buffet - instead of actually acting upon what he proclaims, he instead gives his money to... Bank of America:
http://news.yahoo.com/warren-buffett-invest-5-billion-bank-america-132343764.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Warren Buffet - instead of actually acting upon what he proclaims, he instead gives his money to... Bank of America:
http://news.yahoo.com/warren-buffett-invest-5-billion-bank-america-132343764.html

That's intellectually bankrupt. Nobody should be expected to pay more in taxes than they're asked, and such personal efforts wouldn't amount to cupful of warm piss in the greater scheme of things, even wrt a man of great wealth like Buffet.

From your link-

The deal proved again that Berkshire Hathaway has become something of a lender of last resort to the financial system, as when it invested in Goldman Sachs Group Inc and General Electric Co. Buffett's role in aiding the economy and the financial system has become symbolically important, given the lack of policy options left for the U.S. government and the Federal Reserve to stimulate demand.

If he didn't bail out BofA, then the taxpayers would end up with the job. TBTF? Sadly true- the result of Repub ideology adopted as national policy. It's the way your idols have fought to have it for over 30 years.

Or just Blame Obama! as you dive into the bunker o' denial.

 

[ProfJohn]

If he didn't bail out BofA, then the taxpayers would end up with the job. TBTF? Sadly true- the result of Repub ideology adopted as national policy. It's the way your idols have fought to have it for over 30 years.

Or just Blame Obama! as you dive into the bunker o' denial.

The banking problems have everyone's fingers on them. Start with Jimmy Carter and follow the trail.

Obama should probably get a pass though since he wasn't around when it was all happening.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Yes, socialism is the bucket brigade. Everyone is equal, no one gets rich. Synergy for all!

Capitalism is inventing the fire truck, pressurized water piping systems, practical fire hoses and nozzles, flame-resistant clothing, self-contained breathing apparatus. Some people get rich, but everyone benefits. Even those who are disgruntled that some got rich.

Everyone gets rich with synergy.

The bucket brigade synergy saved whole cities from burning to the ground. This benefits all.

 

[blackangst1]

Warren Buffet - instead of actually acting upon what he proclaims, he instead gives his money to... Bank of America:
http://news.yahoo.com/warren-buffett-invest-5-billion-bank-america-132343764.html

He didnt GIVE money to BofA. He bought part of them. Big difference.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Perhaps we should just tax the people who attend Buffet's fundraiser for Obama more?

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/25/news/economy/buffett_obama_fundraiser/

 

[alkemyst]

Everyone gets rich with synergy.

The bucket brigade synergy saved whole cities from burning to the ground. This benefits all.

Capitalism is inherently a WIN-LOSE scenario and will always be inferior to a WIN-WIN scenario.

Capitalism is a concept not an entity capable of inventing ideas. People invent ideas which is then exploited by the capitalistic system of greed.

Capitalism actually prevents ideas from benefiting most people as most people cannot afford new ideas and/or technology.

Just look at the situation with colleges where tuition is insanely expensive.

Or look at prescription costs being so high that many can't afford treatment.

With exponential population growth and limited resources there is no room for greed anymore in American society.

People will wind up dying in the streets from not getting what they need while some people get what they want.

Here's a quote from Isaac Asimov talking till Bill Moyers about the same idea:

"I use what I call the bathroom metaphor: if two people live in an apartment and there are two bathrooms, then both have freedom of the bathroom. You can go to the bathroom anytime you want to stay as long as you like for whatever you need. But if you have twenty people in the apartment and two bathrooms, no matter how much every person believes in freedom of the bathroom, there is no such thing. You have to set up times for each person; you have to bang on the door, “Aren’t you done yet?” In the same way, democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive. Convenience and decency can’t survive. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn’t matter if someone dies, the more people there are, THE LESS ONE PERSON MATTERS."

You would have to start pooping in the streets with that many people! Just look at India!

40% or 2.6 Billion people are too poor to even have the luxury of toilets:

http://current.com/shows/vanguard/92482205_worlds-toilet-crisis.htm

Or you take the capitalist approach, kick in the bathroom door and throw that pauper into the gutter after giving them a good ass-beating.

Yay! Private bathroom again!

 

[dmcowen674]

Latest news from Buffet

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/25/new...undraiser/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular

Buffett to host high-profile fundraiser for Obama



Warren Buffett will host a fundraiser for President Obama next month in New York City, the Berkshire Hathaway CEO told CNNMoney on Thursday.

Billed as an "Economic Forum Dinner with Warren Buffett," the fundraiser will be held at the Four Seasons restaurant in New York and moderated by former Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee

Last week, Buffett made clear -- in a very high-profile way -- that he supports one of Obama's key policy goals: Higher taxes on the rich.

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress.

 

[Ausm]

Latest news from Buffet

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/25/new...undraiser/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular

Buffett to host high-profile fundraiser for Obama



Warren Buffett will host a fundraiser for President Obama next month in New York City, the Berkshire Hathaway CEO told CNNMoney on Thursday.

Billed as an "Economic Forum Dinner with Warren Buffett," the fundraiser will be held at the Four Seasons restaurant in New York and moderated by former Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee

Last week, Buffett made clear -- in a very high-profile way -- that he supports one of Obama's key policy goals: Higher taxes on the rich.

"My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: