Budget gaming system - opinions needed

[Zathras66]

I'm gonna apologize in advance for the novel-length post.

I'm playing a lot of Battlefield: Bad Company 2 these days, and according to FRAPS, my framerate gets down to about 12 FPS at times when there's a lot of action on the screen - that's at 1920 x 1080, but with all graphics options set to minimum. I plan on playing a lot of Battlefield 3 when it comes out in a few months, and I figure it'll be much worse. I know someone with the same video card, but a AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.2GHz CPU and DDR3 memory, and he's getting about 35 FPS at worst. I'd like to upgrade my CPU now, and a few months down the line, upgrade the video card. I figure video cards are more likely to drop faster, so that's why I'm doing it in this order.


CURRENT SYSTEM:
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit

GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Low points - DDR2 memory, PCIE 1.0 slots.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-084-_-Product

Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 65W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115031

KINGWIN ABT-450MM 450W ATX 12V Ver.2.2 SLI Ready Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817121024

nVidia Geforce GST 250 - XFX nVidia GeForce GTS 250 512 MB DDR3 Standard 2DVI PCI-Express
(this is not my exact card, but close enough)
http://www.amazon.com/XFX-GeForce-St.../dp/B001UHA0Y8

Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134488

And two 2-gig sticks that were given to me, I don't know much about them except what's written on them (Hynix 2GB 2Rx8 PC2-6400u-666i2), and that they seem to work.


INTEL UPGRADE:
The Intel quad-core chip I was thinking of upgrading to, with no further changes for now:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 2.66GHz 1333 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...r-Q8400-2-66GHz-1333MHz-4MB-LGA775-CPU-Retail

My current system is old, and this is probably the last CPU upgrade I can do. It's kind of a pricy upgrade when for maybe $100 more, I could get this:


AMD UPGRADE:
ASUS M4A78LT-M AM3 AMD 760G HDMI Micro ATX AMD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo

Not too much room for expansion, but I have no cards but a graphics card currently. Over the years I've found that I just don't use too many slots. Has 4 RAM slots, and will handle my two old PATA drives as well as my SATA drive.

AMD CPU HDZ955FBGMBOX Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz AM3 125W
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-HDZ955FBGM.../dp/B002TQYUAE

RAM: I'm nut sure what I should get, gonna need some suggestions. I know I want two 2-gig DDR3 sticks - enough for now, and it leaves two slots for future expansion. Here's what I was thinking about, but again, I'm open to suggestions here, particularly if they're not expensive suggestions:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo


My questions:
Which do you think I should get, and why? The INTEL upgrade is cheaper now, but obviously it's nearing the limit of what I can do with this motherboard, and for only about $100 more, I can get the AMD system. I part with the extra money now, and there's room to upgrade in the future.

My current power supply is on the weak side. Someone I know is trying to get me to buy the power supply below, and he says I NEED IT. I'm thinking he's going overboard for a single video card system. I'm also thinking he doesn't know the meaning of a BUDGET GAMING SYSTEM.

CORSAIR Professional Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139010

Finally, the same guy tells me that motherboards with on-board graphics drain system resources even when they are disabled, and you use a video card. Admittedly, I've never used a motherboard with on-board graphics before, so he could be right. My Google-fu has failed me, and I need to check with you guys on this. Does on-board graphics drain system resources when they are disabled? If so, is it a trifling amount, or a lot? If they drain a lot, I'll entertain suggestions for other motherboards for my AMD upgrade, but please bear in mind the word BUDGET.

I'm unable to bounce ideas off my usual tech-heads, so I'm hoping you guys can help. I really appreciate it.

 

[Roy2001]

You need an E8400!

 

[Zathras66]

You need an E8400!

notsureifserious.jpg

E4500 (current CPU) = 1,274 PassMark score

E8400 = 2,250 PassMark score

Q8400 = 3,681 PassMark score

And both the E8400 and the Q8400 seem to be close in price. I guess that's the joke.

 

[Roy2001]

E8400 is faster and has 6MB cache shared by 2 cores, Q8400 has 2MB cache for 2 cors.

For game, E8400 should be better.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Passmark uses all 4 cores of the quad, 90% of games only use 2 of the cores.

Q8400 vs. E8400 (only 4 games listed, but E8400 wins at 3 of them)
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/89?vs=56

Q8400 vs i3-2100
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/89?vs=289

X4 955 vs.i3-2300
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/88?vs=289

You can get an intel H61 mATX + i3-2100 for about the same price as the AMD, or a much faster i5-2400 for about $60 more.

Pro: i3/i5 uses a lot less power than the AMD, your PSU will be fine.
Con: no PATA port on most H61/H67 motherboards

 

[Zathras66]

Thank you both, you've given me a lot to look into and think about. I have just two more questions.

1. Does a motherboard with a built-in video chipset lose resources to the video chips even when you disable it? Like, if I were to install a video card in a motherboard with a video chipset, would the on-board video chips still rob my system of memory, cpu cycles, etc even if I disabled it and didn't use it?

2. Do you have some suggestions for good online retailers, besides Newegg? Newegg has a warehouse in my state, and so I have to pay nearly 10% in sales tax on Newegg purchases. I'd like to avoid that if possible.

 

[Matrices]

So many horribly wrong replies.

BC2 is a heavily CPU-optimized game. You want a Quadcore CPU. Preferably an i5 or i7 or the AMD equivalent, not a C2Q (older architecture), and definitely not a C2D.

BF3 will doubtless be the same because it will also use the Frostbite engine. Also, a number of other more recent games now play like shit on dual-cores simply because consoles run on 3-6 cores and many games are consolized.

 

[Kevmanw430]

You best bet is a new 1155 motherboard with PATA and an i5-2400. (Or the cheapest i5, not sure if the 2400 is.) It'll run circles around any AMD CPU, except for maybe a highly OC'd X6 in BC2, since it's optimized for more cores. Also, don't even consider the C2Q. It's just not worth it.

 

[Zathras66]

You best bet is a new 1155 motherboard with PATA and an i5-2400. (Or the cheapest i5, not sure if the 2400 is.) It'll run circles around any AMD CPU, except for maybe a highly OC'd X6 in BC2, since it's optimized for more cores. Also, don't even consider the C2Q. It's just not worth it.

I'll look into it.

So many horribly wrong replies.

BC2 is a heavily CPU-optimized game. You want a Quadcore CPU. Preferably an i5 or i7 or the AMD equivalent, not a C2Q (older architecture), and definitely not a C2D.

BF3 will doubtless be the same because it will also use the Frostbite engine. Also, a number of other more recent games now play like shit on dual-cores simply because consoles run on 3-6 cores and many games are consolized.

Yeah, I've heard from plenty of places that multi-core was important in BC2. I wasn't going to mention it though - figured I might look ungrateful, and it might limit other responses. BF3 is actually the Frostbite 2 engine, completely rewritten, but it's probably safe to say that they didn't write a whole new engine and then decide to ignore the increasing number of multi-cores out there. Thanks for jumping in and making sure I didn't go with the dual-core.


I've asked this twice this thread. I'll give it one more try, and then I'll give it up as a lost cause:
1. Does a motherboard with a built-in video chipset lose resources to the video chips even when you disable it? Like, if I were to install a video card in a motherboard with a video chipset, would the on-board video chips still rob my system of memory, cpu cycles, etc even if I disabled it and didn't use it?

Someone told me this is so, but I'd like to verify.

 

[Skott]

Its my understanding that if its disabled in BIOS then its off, dead, until you turn it back on. Placing a dicrete GPU on the mobo should do the same. I think you are worrying over nothing.

 

[bntran02]

I'll look into it.


Yeah, I've heard from plenty of places that multi-core was important in BC2. I wasn't going to mention it though - figured I might look ungrateful, and it might limit other responses. BF3 is actually the Frostbite 2 engine, completely rewritten, but it's probably safe to say that they didn't write a whole new engine and then decide to ignore the increasing number of multi-cores out there. Thanks for jumping in and making sure I didn't go with the dual-core.


I've asked this twice this thread. I'll give it one more try, and then I'll give it up as a lost cause:
1. Does a motherboard with a built-in video chipset lose resources to the video chips even when you disable it? Like, if I were to install a video card in a motherboard with a video chipset, would the on-board video chips still rob my system of memory, cpu cycles, etc even if I disabled it and didn't use it?

Someone told me this is so, but I'd like to verify.

Short Answer:
NO. Your motherboard should not continue to used resources.

Long answer:
If You assume that i'm wrong and your built-in card continues to drain resources then the performance impact will still be almost zero. The main resources that the built-in video card uses is your DDR ram. One way you can confirm this is to check your available system resources in windows. If you have 2GB of RAM and some amount significantly less than 2GB is displayed in windows then your built-in video card is using some of your available RAM.

 

[Zathras66]

Thanks for the answers on the built-in video question. It smelled like BS to me, but my Google-fu failed.

 

[RoscoP]

You best bet is a new 1155 motherboard with PATA and an i5-2400. (Or the cheapest i5, not sure if the 2400 is.) It'll run circles around any AMD CPU, except for maybe a highly OC'd X6 in BC2, since it's optimized for more cores. Also, don't even consider the C2Q. It's just not worth it.

If you haven't made up your mind yet I wanted to chime in and say I agree with Kevman. I was shocked the other day to find out my core i3 2100 beats my Q9550 when both are at stock speeds. The core i3 2100 is in a media PC but it bests my Q9550 (just replaced it with a 2500 K ).

The Anandtech Bench shows the core i3 2100 putting up a good fight against the Q9550 - http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/289?vs=50

A Q8400 likely wouldn't even come close to an i3 2100.