Budget Gaming Build - No AMD Love?

[frozentundra123456]

That's sort of what I was looking for, is there any purpose to delaying. When reading I've found so many people saying the chips have not improved much with the introduction of Haswell, so the question was.. is it time to buy now or should I do something to put it off until the next round comes out which hopefully see an actual performance jump?

If I built a new system, I'd currently be looking at a Haswell i5 because the price jump to i7 doesn't seem worth while for my needs. The 7950 at ~$300 is probably a stretch for what I want to spend.. but the next jump down to 7850 is such a significant price drop ~$150 and there doesn't seem to be anything worth while in the middle. Then I'd need 8 or 16gb DDR3, so another $65-100. So I'm looking at $550-600 for a planned budget on those pieces. I wouldn't freak if it creeped to $800, but I'm not sure if the add'l $200 would really buy me tangible increases (I don't want to spend it for ~2-5 fps increases in other words).

~I have a HAF 932, Roswell Cap 650, and an SSD already.

Just to make myself clear, I am talking about CPU improvements in the next year. I dont really see much coming there. However, there could be considerable improvements in the GPU area, but I would defer to others for predictions in that area, because I have not really followed gpus as closely.

Are you committed to AMD for the GPU? nVidia has some new cards out and is dropping some prices as well, so they might have something that would fit in the slot you are looking for between 7850 and 7950. Their line up is very confusing now though, so again probably others could give you better advice on the gpu.

 

[Devlyn]

Just to make myself clear, I am talking about CPU improvements in the next year. I dont really see much coming there. However, there could be considerable improvements in the GPU area, but I would defer to others for predictions in that area, because I have not really followed gpus as closely.

Are you committed to AMD for the GPU? nVidia has some new cards out and is dropping some prices as well, so they might have something that would fit in the slot you are looking for between 7850 and 7950. Their line up is very confusing now though, so again probably others could give you better advice on the gpu.

I'm not committed to any one, I just want the best I can get for the money I want to spend. I'll probably venture to perusing the GPU forum to see what I can learn. Trying to knock out a decision on the CPU since my brother is near a MC and visiting soon.

I think I've decided on picking up a Haswell i5, and purchasing the Phenom II for my wife later. Trying to peruse motherboards now for the i5.

 

[Phynaz]

Oops, this is even better :

http://www.techbargains.com/catsearch.cfm/0_2_0

Right now a 2GB MSI Twin Frozr 7850 is $139 Comes with Crysis 3!

Yikes, I just bought a GTX 660 10 minutes ago to give my kid my 7850. But at that price I may reconsider.

 

[Devlyn]

The number of GPU's between $150 and ~$250 is staggering.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Verily. You have basically every $10 interval covered.

 

[el etro]

For phenom 9850: Max VGA -> Radeon HD 7770/GTX 650Ti
For Phenom II 955/1075T: Max VGA -> Radeon HD 7950
For FX8350/1100T/X4 980OC: Radeon HD 7970/GTX680

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131478

7950 for $200 AR AP? Crazy!

 

[escrow4]

I put my 3930K rig aside and built a FX 6300 + 7870 box and I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact its actually a very capable gaming box. 1080p @ 40FPS+ is doable in the vast bulk of games with settings turned to high, no AA or AF.

 

[RonAKA]

For gaming on a budget, you may want to consider the AMD A10-6800k with the integrated graphics processor. Bundled with the Asus board at Microcenter, it comes to $225 for CPU, MBO, and Graphics.

http://cart.microcenter.com/cart.aspx?RedirectUrl=http://www.microcenter.com

A review here that compares gaming performance for a number of alternatives including this processor.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1350-page1.html

 

[frozentundra123456]

For gaming on a budget, you may want to consider the AMD A10-6800k with the integrated graphics processor. Bundled with the Asus board at Microcenter, it comes to $225 for CPU, MBO, and Graphics.

http://cart.microcenter.com/cart.aspx?RedirectUrl=http://www.microcenter.com

A review here that compares gaming performance for a number of alternatives including this processor.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1350-page1.html

I dont think the OP was looking for an extremely budget solution since he was looking at 8350 and 4670K. Even if he were, you are still better off with a cheap processor like an Athlon x4, the new FM2 one, or an FX6300 plus a 100.00 discrete card.

Microcenter does have some very attractive prices on FX6300/motherboard combos, but I dont know enough about motherboards to know how good they are.

 

[Devlyn]

I dont think the OP was looking for an extremely budget solution since he was looking at 8350 and 4670K. Even if he were, you are still better off with a cheap processor like an Athlon x4, the new FM2 one, or an FX6300 plus a 100.00 discrete card.

Microcenter does have some very attractive prices on FX6300/motherboard combos, but I dont know enough about motherboards to know how good they are.

Yea, I dunno if my budget went up without realizing it over the years, or if what a budget system was is different now.. I remember all of my other builds were considered budget gamer builds.. I think it's because processors have been stagnant for so long that $300 for a mobo + CPU is now high.. and a budget is way lower? Because it feels like that's what I paid in the past.

I'm going to pick up the Haswell, just mulling over Microcenter's combo motherboards for the i5 now. The AMD chips seem to use enough power to make up for the difference in cost in power consumption over the length of time I keep them, so no reason to save there.

 

[monstercameron]

Yea, I dunno if my budget went up without realizing it over the years, or if what a budget system was is different now.. I remember all of my other builds were considered budget gamer builds.. I think it's because processors have been stagnant for so long that $300 for a mobo + CPU is now high.. and a budget is way lower? Because it feels like that's what I paid in the past.

I'm going to pick up the Haswell, just mulling over Microcenter's combo motherboards for the i5 now. The AMD chips seem to use enough power to make up for the difference in cost in power consumption over the length of time I keep them, so no reason to save there.

how much times has this myth been debunked, you arent going to do full load most of the time so there is no higher power draw over a long enough period for the value to be made up. They all pretty much idle the same!

 

[jihe]

For gaming on a budget, you may want to consider the AMD A10-6800k with the integrated graphics processor. Bundled with the Asus board at Microcenter, it comes to $225 for CPU, MBO, and Graphics.

http://cart.microcenter.com/cart.aspx?RedirectUrl=http://www.microcenter.com

A review here that compares gaming performance for a number of alternatives including this processor.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1350-page1.html

He's getting a GPU, integrated is completely wasted for him.

 

[RonAKA]

He's getting a GPU, integrated is completely wasted for him.

I never noticed that in the posts by the OP. He keeps mentioning the Intel Haswell processor which I believe like the AMD A10 is an integrated graphics processor. The GPU would be wasted on the Haswell too.

The reason I mentioned the A10 was that since the OP was looking at an integrated graphics processor design, the A10 should be considered as it generally beats the Haswell for graphics power. The Haswell is the winner for pure cpu power though.

On power being wasted I suspect either an AMD or Intel dedicated processor and dedicated GPU is going to take significantly more power than either integrated offering. The Haswell is a touch more efficient at full load, and perhaps a touch less at idle compared to the A10.

 

[Durp]

how much times has this myth been debunked, you arent going to do full load most of the time so there is no higher power draw over a long enough period for the value to be made up. They all pretty much idle the same!

He makes a factual statement and your cure for this problem is to not use the processor and let it sit idle. D:

 

[RonAKA]

He makes a factual statement and your cure for this problem is to not use the processor and let it sit idle. D:

I think he was suggesting that you can't take the full power consumption and multiply it times 24 hours per day. You would multiply the full power times the hours of hard core gaming, and add to that the hours at idle where the computer is on and at idle.

Net-Net the idle power is likely to have a bigger effect on total power, than what the maximum draw is.

I have to agree. And an integrated graphics processor is likely going to draw less power than a dedicated cpu and dedicated gpu.

 

[Devlyn]

I never noticed that in the posts by the OP. He keeps mentioning the Intel Haswell processor which I believe like the AMD A10 is an integrated graphics processor. The GPU would be wasted on the Haswell too.

The reason I mentioned the A10 was that since the OP was looking at an integrated graphics processor design, the A10 should be considered as it generally beats the Haswell for graphics power. The Haswell is the winner for pure cpu power though.

On power being wasted I suspect either an AMD or Intel dedicated processor and dedicated GPU is going to take significantly more power than either integrated offering. The Haswell is a touch more efficient at full load, and perhaps a touch less at idle compared to the A10.

I've been under the impression that unless you buy an un-OC'able Xeon, you can't really get away from some part of integrated graphics...

The dedicated GPU on the AMD still isn't going to compete with any of the dedicated graphics cards.. so I would still be buying a GPU, AMD or Intel..

 

[CHADBOGA]

For a limited time only.

Yeah, only about the next 50 years. :awe:

 

[frozentundra123456]

how much times has this myth been debunked, you arent going to do full load most of the time so there is no higher power draw over a long enough period for the value to be made up. They all pretty much idle the same!

Here we go again. If one assumes 4 hours per day of heavy gaming, 100 watt power delta between an i5 and an FX8350, and a power cost of 15c per kwh, that comes out to 4*100/1000*.15*365 = 21.90 per year. If one keeps the rig 3 years, that would be almost 66.00 total saved. So the cost of using more power is far from a myth.

On top of that, the i5 is faster in the vast majority of games, and pretty much equal in the few games that are very heavily multithreaded. So for gaming, the 8350 is pretty much like a car that uses more gas, but goes slower as well.

 

[Durp]

I think he was suggesting that you can't take the full power consumption and multiply it times 24 hours per day. You would multiply the full power times the hours of hard core gaming, and add to that the hours at idle where the computer is on and at idle.

Net-Net the idle power is likely to have a bigger effect on total power, than what the maximum draw is.

That is like saying gas mileage doesn't matter at all and won't save you money because you only drive your vehicle for around 40 minutes a day and it sits parked for the rest of the day. The difference quickly adds up over the years.

 

[Soulkeeper]

my power company just said they are raising rates 12%
lol Bulldozer !

 

[Idontcare]

how much times has this myth been debunked, you arent going to do full load most of the time so there is no higher power draw over a long enough period for the value to be made up. They all pretty much idle the same!

How is it a myth that something which uses more power, uses more power?

How do you debunk an unavoidable consequence of something as factual as math?

 

[Arkaign]

I never noticed that in the posts by the OP. He keeps mentioning the Intel Haswell processor which I believe like the AMD A10 is an integrated graphics processor. The GPU would be wasted on the Haswell too.

The reason I mentioned the A10 was that since the OP was looking at an integrated graphics processor design, the A10 should be considered as it generally beats the Haswell for graphics power. The Haswell is the winner for pure cpu power though.

On power being wasted I suspect either an AMD or Intel dedicated processor and dedicated GPU is going to take significantly more power than either integrated offering. The Haswell is a touch more efficient at full load, and perhaps a touch less at idle compared to the A10.

Would this be good with a 7870 or 7950 to run for another year..

Yes, the OP specifically mentioned GPU in his first responses in this thread.

While I agree that A10 has the best integrated graphics performance, it's still horrendously terrible compared to even low end stuff like 7770. Given that the OP is talking about 7870+, A10 is not really a worthwhile option. The reason being that the CPU portion of the A10 isn't notably better than the Phenom II X4/X6, and the OP already has a PhII compatible mobo. Drop-in vs. whole platform change (complete with RAM!).

Moving on, he has elected to go ahead with a Haswell build it looks like, which will be a ridiculously huge improvement. I don't think that's a bad move really, it should last for many years as a viable base with great SATA/USB3/PCIE3/etc and top-tier IPC.

That said, OP if you do have a secondary use for the old system, it would be advisable indeed to go ahead and scoop up a cheap Phenom II to boost it up (for your wife?). Not a big expense, but a large upgrade $ for $, and it should serve well for years to come as well. I've used Phenom II's with Win7 and Win8 64-bit, and provided a well optimized install of the OS/Drivers, and at least 4GB of ram, they fly along very nicely. Pair with a cheap SSD for the OS and they will even feel faster than a brand new PC w/mechanical HDD.

 

[Devlyn]

Yes, the OP specifically mentioned GPU in his first responses in this thread.

While I agree that A10 has the best integrated graphics performance, it's still horrendously terrible compared to even low end stuff like 7770. Given that the OP is talking about 7870+, A10 is not really a worthwhile option. The reason being that the CPU portion of the A10 isn't notably better than the Phenom II X4/X6, and the OP already has a PhII compatible mobo. Drop-in vs. whole platform change (complete with RAM!).

Moving on, he has elected to go ahead with a Haswell build it looks like, which will be a ridiculously huge improvement. I don't think that's a bad move really, it should last for many years as a viable base with great SATA/USB3/PCIE3/etc and top-tier IPC.

That said, OP if you do have a secondary use for the old system, it would be advisable indeed to go ahead and scoop up a cheap Phenom II to boost it up (for your wife?). Not a big expense, but a large upgrade $ for $, and it should serve well for years to come as well. I've used Phenom II's with Win7 and Win8 64-bit, and provided a well optimized install of the OS/Drivers, and at least 4GB of ram, they fly along very nicely. Pair with a cheap SSD for the OS and they will even feel faster than a brand new PC w/mechanical HDD.

That is what I think I'm going with, my wife doesn't play insane games, but I looked into the cost of the Phenom II 940, which is what the mobo support tops out at and its pretty minimal for the boost it will give. Going to slide the current build to her after picking up a cheaper PSU and case for her, and rebuild mine.

Going less budget than I want, think I'm going to go with a Nvidia 760.

 

[Arkaign]

That is what I think I'm going with, my wife doesn't play insane games, but I looked into the cost of the Phenom II 940, which is what the mobo support tops out at and its pretty minimal for the boost it will give. Going to slide the current build to her after picking up a cheaper PSU and case for her, and rebuild mine.

Going less budget than I want, think I'm going to go with a Nvidia 760.

Sounds great, the 760 is a fantastic card. If you just want to drop it in and go, it's hard to beat. The 7850/7870/7950 can OC quite a lot and gain tremendous performance, it's not everybody's cup of tea (not to mention the chance of an early failure or bad luck in the silicon lottery).