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Budget deficit jumps to $779 billion

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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
13,036
2,590
126
Why not vote for Democrats though? Serious question. If fiscal responsibility is your thing it’s not hard to see which party has been more fiscally responsible.
Because it has to do with how they spend the money more than how much money is spent. While Tea Party supporters wanted to balance the budget the philosophy that leads them to think that a balanced budget is a priority also leads them to believe that any sort of social net (that they don't personally benefit from) is immoral.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,206
19,030
136
I don't and the reason I don't is that state level Republicans preach and enact less government knowing full well that the Republicans at the federal level will keep printing and shooting money their way to mitigate the impacts of their bad policies. Then the state level pols run for federal office on a platform of bringing the "sound" fiscal management they implemented at the state level to Washington. Rinse, repeat.
I don't know, Kansas was a pretty significant example of lower taxes and less government. The results were catastrophic from an economic perspective but I can't say Brownback didn't go through with his promises to do very dumb things.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,029
4,772
126
I'm pretty sure the Tea Party is a dead movement and didn't actually accomplish anything. They were absorbed back into the GOP and that's a big reason Republicans are in control at the moment. It was primarily a financial movement and I'm not surprised if some people still staunchly support the rest of the Republican agenda.
the tea party (which was just the koch brothers astroturfing) galvanized republicans against the necessary amounts of deficit spending to pull the economy quickly out of the economic shit storm that the republicans had gotten us into, knowing full well that an economy stumbling around would not favor the party in power, which was the democrats.

"fiscal conservative" literally means "spend like drunken sailors when republicans are in power, insist on belt tightening for the social safety net when not in power." it is NOT rational economic policy and recently has been the exact opposite of rational economic policy.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,306
3,511
136
This seems like something that should have been a topic for one of our Concern Trolls...

Perhaps if a minority person had something to do with all this they'd care...
They haven't gotten their bothsides@ talking points, to explain this away yet.
 

nOOky

Golden Member
Aug 17, 2004
1,763
529
136
You don't actually believe they will let you keep your savings do you? They are working on the problem of 'middle class' people with savings. That is a known reserve of money the truly wealthy wants to get control of, and since they make the rules they will. We have already heard talk of changes to Roth and IRA accounts to rob them of any value, and they are steadily working on eating away small investments portfolios with the crash/boom market cycle that heavily favors large dividend investors. As for cash, well inflation will take care of that.

You will be sacking groceries right next to all the rest of the 'let them eat cake' middle class morons who think they can ignore what is going on because they believe they have theirs.
You thinking it will happen doesn't mean it will of course. If you're as creative with your investing as you are with your imagination you surely can figure out how to shelter your money just like anyone else. If you are being a defeatist and pissing your life savings away you get what you deserve. Your future world sounds grim.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,134
112
106
the tea party (which was just the koch brothers astroturfing) galvanized republicans against the necessary amounts of deficit spending to pull the economy quickly out of the economic shit storm that the republicans had gotten us into, knowing full well that an economy stumbling around would not favor the party in power, which was the democrats.

"fiscal conservative" literally means "spend like drunken sailors when republicans are in power, insist on belt tightening for the social safety net when not in power." it is NOT rational economic policy and recently has been the exact opposite of rational economic policy.
Uh, do you have any information about where your first paragraph came from or is that just your opinion?

I can't say you're wrong in the second paragraph. Your description is quite apt. I would simply say that the people who have been elected have proved themselves not to be fiscal conservatives.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,199
8,526
136
I don't know, Kansas was a pretty significant example of lower taxes and less government. The results were catastrophic from an economic perspective but I can't say Brownback didn't go through with his promises to do very dumb things.
I was kinda hoping they'd continue their cycle of tax and spending cutting until there was literally no state government left so that the rest of us could view the majesty of conservative policy in full bloom.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,217
8,062
136

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,146
13,088
136
That puts them at around 11% of the HOR. You think that's enough to implement the national spending cuts needed to balance the budget?

It's enough to prevent tax increases on the Rich & reductions in military spending to achieve balance.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,134
112
106
I read through this a few times. The article mainly describes a meeting in the early 90's to fund anti-tax groups that was later found to align with tobacco companies interests. Then it puts Rich Fink's list of what would be needed to take over a political party. Finally it says "As luck—or careful, strategic planning—would have it, just such a highly leveraged network with these very pillars was in place as the Tea Party movement appeared" It quickly lists off some programs and says the Koch brothers donated to universities.

Maybe I need to read the book, but this article certainly doesn't convince me that the Koch brothers created or even purposefully funded the Tea Party. It supports a dubious connection at best, and while possible certainly doesn't convince me.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,217
8,062
136
I read through this a few times. The article mainly describes a meeting in the early 90's to fund anti-tax groups that was later found to align with tobacco companies interests. Then it puts Rich Fink's list of what would be needed to take over a political party. Finally it says "As luck—or careful, strategic planning—would have it, just such a highly leveraged network with these very pillars was in place as the Tea Party movement appeared" It quickly lists off some programs and says the Koch brothers donated to universities.

Maybe I need to read the book, but this article certainly doesn't convince me that the Koch brothers created or even purposefully funded the Tea Party. It supports a dubious connection at best, and while possible certainly doesn't convince me.
I get the feeling nothing convinces you unless you already agree with it.

Keep voting third party, the Republicans will thank you for it.

Oh and "both sides"!


/eye roll
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,134
112
106
It's enough to prevent tax increases on the Rich & reductions in military spending to achieve balance.
I get the feeling nothing convinces you unless you already agree with it.

Keep voting third party, the Republicans will thank you for it.

Oh and "both sides"!


/eye roll
Eh, I'm pretty open minded. Did that article honestly convince you that the Koch brothers created the Tea Party when the only direct connection it mentioned was them donating to specific universities? Or did you find more information elsewhere?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,690
133
106
I expect even more tax cuts and spending increases from the republicans... till they lose full control this won't stop.
 
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Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,255
698
126
I expect even more tax cuts and spending increases from the republicans... till they lose full control this won't stop.
Why, of course....


http://fortune.com/2018/09/28/house-3-8-trillion-tax-cut-passes/

The Turtle said that the GOP would come up with the money for the wall too!

Anyone who supports the current GOP and complains about deficits (especially FALLING ones of the Obama years) needs their ass kicked up to their shoulders.
 
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Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,690
133
106
Why, of course....


http://fortune.com/2018/09/28/house-3-8-trillion-tax-cut-passes/

The Turtle said that the GOP would come up with the money for the wall too!

Anyone who supports the current GOP and complains about deficits (especially FALLING ones of the Obama years) needs their ass kicked up to their shoulders.
Easy, pass another tax cut on top of this other one they just passed. That will bring in more money and pay for the wall obviously!!!
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,217
8,062
136
Eh, I'm pretty open minded. Did that article honestly convince you that the Koch brothers created the Tea Party when the only direct connection it mentioned was them donating to specific universities? Or did you find more information elsewhere?
Yeah, I read the article and was capable of following along and understanding what was written. You apparently were unable to do that.

I get it though, you were a tea partier who was used and manipulated, it sucks. You thought you were fighting for a cause you believed in and it turned out you were a participant in something much less noble and maybe antithetical to what you believe. I'd probably be in denial too. The problem with denial is that it leads you to continue making the same mistake. Its why you parrot yet another Republican talking point, "both sides", you ignore reality and throw your hands up not because there really isn't a place for conservatives but rather because you are, once again, being manipulated and used.

Like I said though, keep voting third party, the Republican party thanks you. After all, if they can't get your vote and they can't suppress your vote then the next best thing is to make your vote useless.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,029
4,772
126
Uh, do you have any information about where your first paragraph came from or is that just your opinion?

I can't say you're wrong in the second paragraph. Your description is quite apt. I would simply say that the people who have been elected have proved themselves not to be fiscal conservatives.
i can understand how difficult it is to find this information, it's clearly buried in obscure academic journals

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tea+party+astroturf
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,306
3,511
136
Easy, pass another tax cut on top of this other one they just passed. That will bring in more money and pay for the wall obviously!!!
Yep, cause the less taxes taken in mean more revenue right? Silly me. It's that damn Laffer curve math.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,146
13,088
136
I read through this a few times. The article mainly describes a meeting in the early 90's to fund anti-tax groups that was later found to align with tobacco companies interests. Then it puts Rich Fink's list of what would be needed to take over a political party. Finally it says "As luck—or careful, strategic planning—would have it, just such a highly leveraged network with these very pillars was in place as the Tea Party movement appeared" It quickly lists off some programs and says the Koch brothers donated to universities.

Maybe I need to read the book, but this article certainly doesn't convince me that the Koch brothers created or even purposefully funded the Tea Party. It supports a dubious connection at best, and while possible certainly doesn't convince me.
You're becoming deliberately obtuse. Google <Tea Party Koch> for all the information you require.

You're also being dishonest. Anybody with a lick of sense realizes that you don't cut taxes to balance the budget. It's doublespeak. The Freedom Caucus voted for the cuts. Google < freedom caucus tax cuts> to find them spewing the same "tax cuts pay for themselves" bullshit as Mnuchin & the rest of the GOP.

The GOP lies. That's merely the truth. It's been top down class warfare since Reagan. If you want something different than that, well, Dems are the answer because voting third party might as well be a vote for the GOP.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,255
698
126
Easy, pass another tax cut on top of this other one they just passed. That will bring in more money and pay for the wall obviously!!!
Yep, cause the less taxes taken in mean more revenue right? Silly me. It's that damn Laffer curve math.
Yes, that's why the Laffer Curve has now been renamed the "Laugher" curve. As rates approach zero (or even negative), revenue goes to infinity.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,939
3,079
126
Hmmm..... thread is mostly free of the moron Trump supporters around here. They must be out stocking up on cat food. lol.
 

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