Budget 3D Rendering Build - Suggestion

[viknesh]

Proposed Build (Budget around 55k INR)

Intel 6th Gen (Skylake) i5 6400 @2.7Ghz
Asus H170 Pro Gaming Motherboard
(2x8) 16 GB Crucial DDR4 RAM
Zebronics 450W PSU
Nvidia GTX 750ti (Zotac, Gigabyte, MSI or Asus)?
HP Compaq LE2200x 21.5" 1080P Monitor.

Software Used - Photoshop 24x7, 3ds Max when photoshop is not in use.

Que 1 - Will my new build is good enough for my works? Can you suggest better build if any?

Que 2 - Will 3ds Max / VRay use GPU for Rendering? - I will be modeling Architectural Interiors and Exteriors. But NO animation or Rigging stuff.

Que 3 - Is it good to invest in a DDR4 Motherboard at this point of time?

Que 4 - If GPU is not much needed for my works can you propose a new build / GPU that will be best for my budget?

Que 5 - Current build is any good for an update?

I will be buying from my local dealer. You can visit Snapdeal, Flipkart or Amazon.in for Indian price.

Current build (if needed)

Intel Pentium Dual Core E5700 @3GHz
Asus P5G41T M LX Motherboard
(2+4) 6 GB DDR3 RAM
Zebronics 450W PSU
No dedicated GPU.

Awaiting your expert opinions. Thank you.

Edit 1: I don't do Overclock.

 

[Ken g6]

I have a few suggestions.

1. Wait on the discrete graphics card, until you see how the integrated graphics performs. Intel graphics got way better a couple of generations after your current build, and has continued to improve ever since.

2. With that money saved, look at an IPS monitor. This Dell looks decent.

3. You didn't mention any drives. Do you have an SSD? If not, get one. It'll make a huge difference, not with the hard render or filter work, but all the little operations.

4. There's quite a big difference between an i5 6400 and an i5 6500. Buy the 6500 if you can.

Que 3 - Is it good to invest in a DDR4 Motherboard at this point of time?

Good question. It might be good if you can afford it; but if re-using the RAM from your current build would save you a lot, that might be good too. It's too bad your RAM isn't 2x4GB dual-channel - if it was I'd say to keep it.

 

[Mike64]

Maybe I'm just being thick, but before I start typing the rest of my longer reply, let me ask this: when you say you'll be using "Photoshop 24x7", do you mean "using Photoshop constantly", or are you referring to some particular version or implementation of Photoshop that I'm unaware of and can't find out anything about with Google? If you mean the former, which version of Photoshop will you be using?

 

[viknesh]

Maybe I'm just being thick, but before I start typing the rest of my longer reply, let me ask this: when you say you'll be using "Photoshop 24x7", do you mean "using Photoshop constantly", or are you referring to some particular version or implementation of Photoshop that I'm unaware of and can't find out anything about with Google? If you mean the former, which version of Photoshop will you be using?

I just meant that I will be running Photoshop everyday. The version I will be using is Photoshop CC 2015 and 3ds Max 2016.

 

[seamadan]

I have a few suggestions.

1. Wait on the discrete graphics card, until you see how the integrated graphics performs. Intel graphics got way better a couple of generations after your current build, and has continued to improve ever since.

Ken gave some great advice, but waiting on the GPU is one thing I'd quibble with. As far as I know Photoshop (and most other rendering programs) can use the GPU to accelerate rendering these days, so if you're doing genuinely intensive renders a decently powerful GPU could really speed things up. The 750ti should be good for that.

 

[Cerb]

Intel 6th Gen (Skylake) i5 6400 @2.7Ghz

Can you afford an i7, if you skip the video card for the moment? If so, I would do that.

Zebronics 450W PSU

Who makes it? I would not be getting a PSU from some odd brand unless I could verify it was a rebadge of a PSU from a major maker of known good quality.

Que 3 - Is it good to invest in a DDR4 Motherboard at this point of time?

Do you intend to go to 64GB at some point?

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-vs-Skylake-S-i7-4790K-vs-i7-6700K-641/

Minor improvement, but LGA1150 stops at 32GB, while LGA1151 will go to 64GB.

 

[viknesh]

Wait on the discrete graphics card

skip the video card for the moment?

if you're doing genuinely intensive renders a decently powerful GPU could really speed things up

Is there any particular advantage to go with an i7 than an i5 and GPU combined? I am a bit confused now to choose one over the other since seamadan suggested to buy a GPU.

Currently, both Photoshop and 3ds Max are not GPU heavy, but they are beginning to use GPU for some tasks. Especially according to Adobe, Photoshop now uses GPU for Artboards which I intend to use most. Also, 3ds Max uses GPU for viewport renderings. And I believe future versions will have more features to use GPU to some extent.

I am not much biased to buy a GPU. But I doubt if the i7 Integrated GPU can handle these things. If the integrated graphics can work good for now, I can buy an updated video card if and when these software get more gpu intensive.

Do you intend to go to 64GB at some point?

I will be using this rig for some 4 to 5 yrs. For now 32gb is more than enough for me. But I thought of buying an updated DDR4 which might be useful at some point of time.

I would not be getting a PSU from some odd brand unless I could verify it

Yes. I now got an idea why a good PSU matters and I am now thinking of buying a Gold or Platinum rated 400 - 450W PSU. Suggestions are welcome.

 

[viknesh]

Or what about something like Xeon Processors? I never used them or know about them. But I read on some other threads that its good for Graphics and Rendering. Not much interested in buying it but just want your thoughts on it.

 

[Ken g6]

Or what about something like Xeon Processors? I never used them or know about them. But I read on some other threads that its good for Graphics and Rendering. Not much interested in buying it but just want your thoughts on it.

Xeons either have equal power to an i7 (if the clock speeds were the same, and the Xeons are frequently slower) or more cores than an i7, but at a much slower clock speed. They also often lack an integrated GPU. If you wanted to get one and a discrete GPU, I'd suggest the Xeon E3 1231 V5. (Which hasn't been released yet.)

I am not much biased to buy a GPU. But I doubt if the i7 Integrated GPU can handle these things. If the integrated graphics can work good for now, I can buy an updated video card if and when these software get more gpu intensive.

OK, let's look at some benchmarks. These are for gaming, so your work could either see a smaller improvement on faster cards or a bottleneck which would cause no improvement on faster cards. Except for 3ds Max iRay, which probably follows these pretty closely.

It so happens Adobe gives an example of HD 5000 graphics with its Artbox page.

- Intel HD 530 is somewhat faster than HD 5000. HD 530 is what Skylake comes with.
- The 750 Ti is at least twice as fast as HD 530.
- A GTX 970 is three times as fast as a 750 Ti.

Yes. I now got an idea why a good PSU matters and I am now thinking of buying a Gold or Platinum rated 400 - 450W PSU. Suggestions are welcome.

Gold or Platinum doesn't matter; though at least Bronze would be good. Look at PSUs from Seasonic, or Antec or Corsair since you're on a budget.

I'd say budget first for the CPU, RAM, monitor, SSD, and PSU; then consider a discrete graphics card.

 

[Cerb]

Currently, both Photoshop and 3ds Max are not GPU heavy, but they are beginning to use GPU for some tasks. Especially according to Adobe, Photoshop now uses GPU for Artboards which I intend to use most. Also, 3ds Max uses GPU for viewport renderings. And I believe future versions will have more features to use GPU to some extent.

While anemic compared to a $100 video card, the integrated GPU will get some use. If you look at Photoshop benchmarks that don't include a high-end GPU, you'll notice Skyake getting a good bit better scores than Haswell, while only a little bit with a high-end GPU included. That's partly the IGP getting used.

I will be using this rig for some 4 to 5 yrs. For now 32gb is more than enough for me. But I thought of buying an updated DDR4 which might be useful at some point of time.

DDR4 brings very little except bandwidth for IGP at a low price, and for Intel, 4x16GB capability.

Yes. I now got an idea why a good PSU matters and I am now thinking of buying a Gold or Platinum rated 400 - 450W PSU. Suggestions are welcome.

You want something of known good quality. 80+ Bronze, Gold, or Platinum is neither here nor there. IE, a PSU made by Seasnoic or Superflower would be great, Enhance or Delta pretty good, and so on.

Or what about something like Xeon Processors? I never used them or know about them. But I read on some other threads that its good for Graphics and Rendering. Not much interested in buying it but just want your thoughts on it.

Xeon E3s are the same chips i5s or i7s in that socket. Running at the same speed, with the same features, they'll perform the same. Some models are cheap ways to get Hyperthreading, at slightly reduced clock speeds, with no ability to overclock. But, they aren't better for having a Xeon name on them. With the fastest models of i7 also sporting much higher clock speeds, which affect every CPU-bound task equally, the i7-4790K or 6700(K) are better, if you can afford them.

 

[viknesh]

I came out with these builds with your suggestions. Your thoughts on it?

Build 1: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XDFtGX
Build 2: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8yRJrH

 

[Mike64]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I got busy, then my apartment building lost its electricity last night (very unusual and extremely annoying!), so I couldn't get on the Web except with my tablet...

I don't have anywhere near the general PC expertise the other posters have, so I can't/won't really make detailed comments on current CPUs, which I haven't followed closely. I do play around with 3D rendering as a hobby to some extent, but don't use the software you'll be using. Indeed, the renderer I use almost exclusively is the open source Luxrender which is based on OpenCL, with which NVIDIA drivers don't "play nice" at all (they work, but they're not efficient), whereas your software is CUDA-based, which is exclusively NVIDIA's domain...

Although you needn't consider them "required," do check out the software publishers' websites for their GPU recommendations, at least to get a sense for the sort of hardware the software is specifically tweaked for (or vice versa.) They do tend to recommend and/or certify the professional-series cards, which are much more expensive than hobbyist/gamer cards with respect to comparable hardware, but do have better drivers, tweaked specifically for rendering performance. Their customer support for the pro cards is also (said to be) much better than for the hobbyist cards. I also came across this web forum, which seems to have a number of threads of potential interest to you: CGarchitect - Hardware and Technical Discussions.

In general, as regards CPUs and rendering, I agree with the previous comments that the more threads, the better, so hyperthreading capability would definitely be a worthwhile investment. I think probably more worthwhile than spending comparable additional money on a hobbyist GPU, at least at this stage of the game. It's obviously easier to add/replace graphics cards later than to change CPUs...

One thing I would seriously consider is getting an at least somewhat stronger power supply. If nothing else, it's a relatively inexpensive investment in overall system longevity without having to replace the PSU down the line, and will also allow for easier upgrading to a more powerful GPU in the future. (And as it so happens, Newegg has the Corsair 500CX for even less than the 430W model right now. It's not modular, but it is only $25 after promo code and rebate. It also has 2 PCIE power plugs vs the 430W's 1.)

I also agree that you really do want to go with an SSD unless you're seriously strapped for cash. It'll help a lot with Photoshop, and while I don't think it'll do a great deal for rendering performance per se, the overall improvement in system responsiveness is enormous. I've been using a by-now-rather-outdated SSD for several years, and really can't imagine using a mechanical HD as a system drive ever again...

As for an IPS monitor: it'd definitely be nice, but won't do anything for your actual productivity, so may not be the best use of limited funds at the start. It's also an easy future upgrade, with no concerns about system compatibility. On the other hand, there's actually a post in the Hot Deals forum about a relatively new 23" Asus IPS monitor Newegg is currently selling for $130 with free shipping, so you might want to take a look at that.

 

[Burpo]

I came out with these builds with your suggestions. Your thoughts on it?

Build 1: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XDFtGX
Build 2: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8yRJrH

I'd go with Build 2, but you have to add a cooler to that..

 

[Seba]

If you go with DDR3, then why not stick to Haswell?

 

[viknesh]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Hi @mike, thank you for remembering and taking your time to reply the question.

I think probably more worthwhile than spending comparable additional money on a hobbyist GPU, at least at this stage of the game. It's obviously easier to add/replace graphics cards later than to change CPUs...

This is what I am thinking to do. Going with this build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvqWhM and buy an SSD and GPU in near future.

(And as it so happens, Newegg has the Corsair 500CX for even less than the 430W model right now.

I am from India and Newegg's shipping cost will be even more than the price of the psu. So that wont be possible.

it'd definitely be nice, but won't do anything for your actual productivity, so may not be the best use of limited funds at the start.

I definitely will buy an IPS monitor. But not now. I am pretty much happy with the current monitor. After some months I will buy a new one and use the current one for my old computer.

I'd go with Build 2, but you have to add a cooler to that..

Yeah. Any suggestions? I have no idea about the coolers. I never used one. Also I updated the build now. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvqWhM

If you go with DDR3, then why not stick to Haswell?

Yes, you are right. I am going with DDR4. Updated the build. http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nDN2yc

 

[Mike64]

Going with this build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hvqWhM and buy an SSD and GPU in near future.

I do think the i7 6700's hyperthreading capability will stand in you in good stead for your intended usage. And when you are able to add a GPU, you'll just have that much more computing power. Using GPU acceleration isn't an exclusive proposition, the software will continue to use the CPU as well.

I am from India and Newegg's shipping cost will be even more than the price of the psu. So that wont be possible.

Ah. Yes, an additional 7000+ miles would add just a bit to the shipping cost, not to mention possible import duties... But even still, if you can find a somewhat more powerful PSU for not too much more money, a relatively small additional expense now might well save you the price of a new one and the trouble of replacing it down the road, if you end up adding one (or more) GPU(s) that need more power than the 430W will be able to supply. SSDs don't draw much power, but presumably you'll want to keep the HD installed as a data drive, so the former (plus the necessary CPU cooler) will be a slight additional drain on the PSU as well.

I don't think waiting on the SSD will cause any real heartache, and hopefully you'll be able to get one somewhat larger than 120GB when the time comes (Photoshop working and temporary files, for example, can take up a lot of room.) When you are able to add it, putting those on the SSD will noticeably speed up photo editing, but in the meantime, the extra computing power will already be making it faster than what you're used to now. And since 3D rendering speed is primarily a function of computing power, not disk access time, using a mechanical HD for the time being shouldn't present a significant bottleneck there.

As for the display, an IPS panel would be nice, but even later on, if you have to compromise, a larger, good-quality TFT panel for the same price as a smaller IPS monitor might make more sense. An IPS monitor would be nicer "to look at" and would certainly be helpful for photo editing, but for computer-aided architecture, I would think having more viewable area would take precedence from a practical/functional standpoint.