Buddy needs a new PC - existing S939 dual-core rig with 4x 512MB DDR1

[VirtualLarry]

I bought some parts (CPU + DDR1 RAM) a few (ok, more than few, I think) years ago on here from another member. (Thanks!)

I already had a decent ASRock Socket939 mobo, so I dropped the parts in, and built a PC with them, and then gave that PC to a friend of mine that needed one, and didn't have much money. (He was supposed to buy me a pizza, I'm fuzzy on whether he did or not, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.) I gave him a legit Win7 Home license for his PC too, that was my primary expense.

He used that PC, that was basically obsolete when I built it, for the last 4 years. (S939 represent!), except, I visited him today, and he said that the PC I had built him, well, they had the power go out 4 months ago, and when he turned it back on, it went "zap!", and didn't work, nor turn on ever again.

I figure, probably AT LEAST PSU requires replacement. Mobo didn't have all-solid caps, so it's probably going on a good 12+ years old, so it's probably dying / dead, not to mention whatever HDD is in there, probably needs replacement too.

So I figure, other than data-recovery using a Linux disk, and a HDD dock (if it's even a SATA HDD, it might not be, gah), the PC is mostly a lost cause. I mean, best case, I replace the PSU, and bring the whole thing back to life. Possible.

But also possible, would be giving my friend one of my "giveaway" PCs. a quad-core FM1 APU, A55 mobo, small OS SSD, DVD-RW, and licensed Windows 10. Yeah, 2x2GB DDR3 too.

But that's 2011 tech. Which would be new-to-him, and probably work well at 1080P for web browsing, and maybe some light gaming and YouTuibe. So that's an option.

But I also remembered, I've got this SFF Acer Haswell i3-4130 (?) rig, with a 3.6Ghz Haswell dual-core w/HT, which I hooked up for testing, and am using right now. (Doing Windows 10 1703 to 1709 upgrade download in background on WU.)

It's got integrated (mPCI-E) wifi, GigE ethernet, HDMI, VGA, some USB2.0 ports, and a single PCI-E x16 LP slot, which I could drop in this GT620, or maybe GT710 card I've got. (Would that even offer much improvement, in non-gaming tasks?)

I've got 8GB of DDR3-1600 in there.

Also, I think that I'm running in 4K30 right now, which is a nice bonus. (Haswell i3 and up iGPUs could do 4K30 over HDMI 1.4, Pentium was limited to 1080P, including the overclockable G3258.)

It came stock with a DVD-RW, and I replaced the HDD with an SSD.

That's a third option.

The fourth and fifth option, is building new.

A few days ago, I ordered a pair of G4560 CPUs off of Newegg on ebay, for ~$62 ea., which I consider to be a decent deal, given that they were $100 for months from third-party scalpers.

I also ordered some H110 boards, supposedly new, for ~$45 shipped.

So, I've got SSDs (120GB), and just need some DDR4 RAM. (Ordered Corsair 2x4GB DDR4-2667).

Have PSUs and cases.

I also have a Gigabyte B350 Gaming 3 mATX board, and a Biostar A320 mATX board. Both of which would also work with the RAM. Just need a Ryzen APU to drop in.

Although, there may be slightly more complexity there, as people are reporting that the VGA output is not supported (officially, at least) on Ryzen APUs. And I wanted to give him a new VGA monitor to go with the rig.

So, fifth option is a Ryzen APU build. Which would be the newest technology.

Given that he generally runs his PCs until they die, and he's getting on in his years slightly already, should I strive to give him the newest tech?

Or is new-to-him but older 2011 tech still good enough. (If he doesn't know anything better?)

I know, I know, some of you will say, "buy refurb", which is what that Acer SFF PC originally was.

I wonder how well a Haswell i3 would perform on 4K YouTube, if he ever gets a 4K monitor. Probably not well. But I think that possibly there's enough clearance to drop in a single-slot LP GT1030 card too. I just didn't want to spend the expense at the time.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Haswell i3 will certainly play it back, if that's all you're doing. I'm quite happy with 4k video on my IVB sig rig. (It works. Don't overthink it.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Your sig shows your i5-3570K has a GTX970 installed. Surely, that's doing the H/W decoding of 4K YouTube VP9? Because I've tried it (in software mode) on other PCs, and it's... a slideshow, without H/W accel. And my understanding was that 4K / 8K VP9 decoding was only added in Skylake or Kaby Lake.

Of course, my friend doesn't have a 4K screen, but just thinking 3+ years away, he might get one someday. And still have the same PC, if it doesn't break down.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Your sig shows your i5-3570K has a GTX970 installed. Surely, that's doing the H/W decoding of 4K YouTube VP9? Because I've tried it (in software mode) on other PCs, and it's... a slideshow, without H/W accel. And my understanding was that 4K / 8K VP9 decoding was only added in Skylake or Kaby Lake.

Of course, my friend doesn't have a 4K screen, but just thinking 3+ years away, he might get one someday. And still have the same PC, if it doesn't break down.

I have absolutely no idea what's doing the decoding. It's a 5yo midrange build with a 3yo midrange GPU and it works. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was this article back when: https://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/intels-haswell-an-htpc-perspective - worst-case with Haswell is you have some crabby monitor and have to drop in a GT 640 or better.

I think you're overthinking this. Play a video on the prebuilt - if it works, do a clean Windows install, drop the prebuilt on his doorstep, and call it a day. You have other things to worry about. He can put the 939 rig in the recycling bin.

Unless you like worrying about this stuff, but...

 

[XavierMace]

I really don't see why YouTube 4K is even in the picture. He's running a S939 system. I don't think he's going to be shopping for 4K monitors any time soon. Plus I could make the argument of how much 4K YouTube content is there and how much of that is actually quality 4K. Give him one of your give away systems that nobody wants to buy. If he complains, he can get his own computer as you've already given him two. If you really like him, give him the Haswell build. It feels like this is another attempt at making a problem so you can find a solution that involves buying more parts.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Believe me, even Core2Quad will look brand new tech for him. My vote is with your FM1 system because even if it's super cheap, none of techies want that thing anymore, but it still has plenty of power compared to the ancient S939. And if you're doubting about its IGP capability, you can donate one of your GT730 that will happily run 4k60 video content.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It feels like this is another attempt at making a problem so you can find a solution that involves buying more parts.

You got it! Already ordered 8GB kit of DDR4-2667 Corsair, and a 240GB SSD. Already have a B350 micro-ATX board, just ready to drop in a 2200G.

Then again, I think that I'd rather give him the FM1 rig, and keep the 2200G for myself.

Edit: Ok, I switched from the Haswell i3-4160 to the FM1 A6-3600. Seems actually snappier, to me. Just because the iGPU is better, even though it has half the RAM. It also has double the real cores.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think you're overthinking this. Play a video on the prebuilt - if it works, do a clean Windows install

The Windows install is pretty clean already, just need to save my bookmarks to my NAS and then delete them off of the system, and clean the browser history.

I tried playing some YouTube videos, that traditionally, have been channels that use 4K videos, but they never auto-switched out of 480P. How disappointing. I did, however, have my video window set full-screen, at 4K. So "Stats for nerds" was showing the viewports. Actual display was at 4K UHD, but the current and ideal video resolution was still 480P, and wasn't increasing.

Whereas, I think last time I checked the FM1 rig, it would at least do 1080P YouTube, but I don't know if that was 1080P VP9, or HEVC.

 

[XavierMace]

I tried playing some YouTube videos, that traditionally, have been channels that use 4K videos, but they never auto-switched out of 480P. How disappointing. I did, however, have my video window set full-screen, at 4K. So "Stats for nerds" was showing the viewports. Actual display was at 4K UHD, but the current and ideal video resolution was still 480P, and wasn't increasing.

Didn't you have to drop your fast internet recently? The slowest speed I've seen people report 4K working on is 12Mbps and that's with nothing else going on. If you've got other rigs updating and what not, that adds up in a hurry. But again, I think the ability of this box to do 4K is moot.

Can we get a "STOP" button for you on the forums?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Can we get a "STOP" button for you on the forums?

If I didn't post these inane build threads about my friends, who would you make fun of then?

 

[daveybrat]

From the old system he currently has i really suggest you build him one of those G4560 machines. The onboard graphics and 4 threaded high IPC goodness should last him a while. Let's finally get him up to speed with today's tech!

 

[XavierMace]

If I didn't post these inane build threads about my friends, who would you make fun of then?

TridenT, obviously.

But seriously, give him the FM1 rig and call it good.

 

[cbn]

(Haswell i3 and up iGPUs could do 4K30 over HDMI 1.4, Pentium was limited to 1080P, including the overclockable G3258.)

I wonder how well a Haswell i3 would perform on 4K YouTube, if he ever gets a 4K monitor. Probably not well. But I think that possibly there's enough clearance to drop in a single-slot LP GT1030 card too. I just didn't want to spend the expense at the time.

Does that Acer have display port? Because if it does it should do 4K60 with that:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...orking-with-4k-monitors-for-browsing.2507230/

 

[cbn]

The slowest speed I've seen people report 4K working on is 12Mbps and that's with nothing else going on.

This must be with VP9 decode.

With AV1 decode* I am hoping this could drop to ~6 to ~9 Gbps.

*Hopefully Core i5 4570 ( a garden variety processor found in many desktop PC with display port 1.2) will be sufficient for 4K AV1 decode on the CPU. I think it will be.

 

[VirtualLarry]

From the old system he currently has i really suggest you build him one of those G4560 machines. The onboard graphics and 4 threaded high IPC goodness should last him a while. Let's finally get him up to speed with today's tech!

That's what I'm thinking.

The Kaby Lake Pentium G4560 dual-core w/HT, does do VP9 decode, including 4K and supposedly, I think, 8K too. (Don't have an 8K monitor to test with.)

I've tried it with 4K VP9, and it's great, although Firefox has issues with VP9 @ 4K for some reason, where it's fine at 1080P, or even 1440P most of the time.

I think that I'll go this route, and build two PCs, nearly identical or as identical as I can make them.

G4560 (got two of these)
MSI H110M-VD mobo (got two of these)
4GB DDR4 (got an 8GB Corsair kit coming my way, can split up)
120/128GB SSD (no M.2 socket on board, sadly) (have qty.)
Windows 10 Home
VGA flat-screen monitor (new, I think that they're 1080P, or maybe 900P. They are 16:9, NIB). Maybe they take DVI too. (got two of these)
DVD-RW (got two of these)

Just need case + PSU.

Got two friends that could use PCs, will inquire with them as to cases that they might like.

 

[cbn]

The Kaby Lake Pentium G4560 dual-core w/HT, does do VP9 decode, including 4K and supposedly, I think, 8K too. (Don't have an 8K monitor to test with.)

Max resolution for the G4560 iGPU is 4096x2304@60Hz and you will need display port for this:

https://ark.intel.com/products/97143/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G4560-3M-Cache-3_50-GHz

P.S. I wonder what will be better for AV1 decode on the CPU? Core i5 4570 or the new upcoming Coffee Lake 2C/4T Pentium? Also how will the G4560 stack up for AV1 decode?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Max resolution for the G4560 iGPU is 4096x2304@60Hz and you will need display port for this:

That may be true, but if you look at DXDiag or DXCaps or DXMediaViewer or whatever that program is that tests your video driver's caps bits for DXVAChecker, yeah, that's it, they show support for 4K and 8K on some of the video formats.

 

[cbn]

That may be true, but if you look at DXDiag or DXCaps or DXMediaViewer or whatever that program is that tests your video driver's caps bits for DXVAChecker, yeah, that's it, they show support for 4K and 8K on some of the video formats.

So I know there are usb 3.0 to Display Port/HDMI 2.0 adapters. (EDIT: My mistake these are more than adapters.....they are actually external graphics cards as well)

(Deleted)

 

[Torn Mind]

I wonder if that guy can even afford a 4K monitor and the internet to go with it.

The following runs for just $85
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5HA6KU6894

Anyway, he needs a UPS. Nothing fancy, and don't buy fancy crap like sine wave and LCD. What matters is the battery and getting the most battery for your buck.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wonder if that guy can even afford a 4K monitor and the internet to go with it.

The following runs for just $85
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5HA6KU6894

Anyway, he needs a UPS. Nothing fancy, and don't buy fancy crap like sine wave and LCD. What matters is the battery and getting the most battery for your buck.

I'm not convinced that he needs a UPS, just because he loses power once in like 3-4 years, and it happens to kill his ancient PSU. Seems like unnecessary added expense.

As for that PC, not bad. Not bad at all.

But come to think of it, I think that I have a Dell tower PC that I bought refurb to turn into a gaming rig, and it turned out to have an i3 in it. So let me dig that one out of storage if I can find it, and possibly hook him up with that one.

Edit: Screw it. I bought this one for him:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...pComputers-_-9SIA5HA69V3936-S3A7A&ignorebbr=1

Refurb i5-2400, 2GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, Windows 10 Home (32-bit? Wut?), for $109.99 FS.

Seemed like a fair deal. Obviously, first thing I'll do is plug it in, turn it on, and validate that the Windows 10 is activated.

Then, turn off, pull the plug, and then install 2x2GB or maybe 1x8GB DDR3, and possibly a 120GB SSD, and then re-install Windows 10 64-bit fresh.

Edit: You know what? When I get it, I'm going to run it through its paces, and hopefully all of the components are as described, and it works properly, and the OS activates.

But I think that I'm going to swap out the i5-2400 from the SFF, and put it into my Dell ATX mini-tower box (that was supposed to contain a quad, but was only an i3), and then throw the i3 into the SFF, if I can.

That would then mean that I would have a quad-core CPU in the tower box, after which, I could swap in a replacement ATX PSU, and a gaming card (mid-range), and an SSD and a HDD, and make a half-decent little gaming box for someone, and then mildly soup-up the SFF box, with a 2x2GB kit of DDR3 (maybe even add to the existing 2GB installed), swap the 500GB HDD for a 120/128GB SSD, or install the OS to SSD, and keep the HDD. (Depends on how many SATA ports / bays they have in the SFF rig.)

Could be a pretty decent win / win / win thing here.

Just need a dGPU for the tower box, and I'm NOT paying $240+ for a Gaming X 1050ti 4GB card. Crazy.

I have some 1GB GDDR5 GT730 (refurb) cards I could drop in, and I have maybe a few other alternatives. (Got a 2GB GTX950 in a Ryzen 1200 rig I built, could remove it from that rig, and put in the GT730 1GB GDDR5 card instead.)

 

[whm1974]

@VirtualLarry I'm not sure what your current focus on 4K video is about, but what is wrong with sticking with 1080p for budget or low end machines? And besides I'm not sure if there is enough 4K content to bother anyway.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

@VirtualLarry I'm not sure what your current focus on 4K video is about, but what is wrong with sticking with 1080p for budget or low end machines? And besides I'm not sure if there is enough 4K content to bother anyway.

It gives him a problem to solve. Any $100 refurb/prebuilt could handle 1080p.

 

[whm1974]

It gives him a problem to solve. Any $100 refurb/prebuilt could handle 1080p.

Maybe in three to five years after I get my money's worth out of my Dell 30" 1600p display I will consider going 4K, but GPU prices will have to come back to being reasonable(I game) instead of what they are now.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'm not convinced that he needs a UPS, just because he loses power once in like 3-4 years, and it happens to kill his ancient PSU. Seems like unnecessary added expense.

As for that PC, not bad. Not bad at all.

But come to think of it, I think that I have a Dell tower PC that I bought refurb to turn into a gaming rig, and it turned out to have an i3 in it. So let me dig that one out of storage if I can find it, and possibly hook him up with that one.

Edit: Screw it. I bought this one for him:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...pComputers-_-9SIA5HA69V3936-S3A7A&ignorebbr=1

Refurb i5-2400, 2GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, Windows 10 Home (32-bit? Wut?), for $109.99 FS.

Seemed like a fair deal. Obviously, first thing I'll do is plug it in, turn it on, and validate that the Windows 10 is activated.

Then, turn off, pull the plug, and then install 2x2GB or maybe 1x8GB DDR3, and possibly a 120GB SSD, and then re-install Windows 10 64-bit fresh.

I presume the climate is not rainy or stormy where he lives, the power company is not unreliable, and the wiring of his house is not prone to brownouts? $70 is what it takes to get AVR and a UPS, the CyberPower 685AVR, which I have.

Or if you don't want the UPS, just an AVR runs for $28: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...42107118&cm_re=avr_ups-_-42-107-118-_-Product

Lol, you found some way to spend money on more computers.

ArrowDirect has their own website and are Microsoft Authorized, so their licenses are good.

 

[cbn]

@VirtualLarry I'm not sure what your current focus on 4K video is about, but what is wrong with sticking with 1080p for budget or low end machines? And besides I'm not sure if there is enough 4K content to bother anyway.

I think he might be predicting a drop in 4K monitor prices if the Intel 300 series chipsets coming this month support HDMI 2.0 as standard.

With that noted, the MSI H110M-VD motherboard he was planing to use for the G4560 build only has VGA and DVI (no display port) so he would need to add a dGPU anyway if he eventually wanted 4K monitor support.

So I think the refurb was not a bad idea. (Would be interesting to find out eventually if the Core i5 2400 in the machine is able to decode AV1 should he add a 4K (but non AV1) capable card to it)