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*BSD vs. Linux

X

xyyz

Diamond Member

I'm looking at OpenBSD... instead of Linux right now... and I wanted to know if it's a good idea to go with OpenBSD instead of Progeny Linux.

From what i've read OpenBSD seems to be more stable and mature, but I dunno exactly how this will affect me.

I want to run a mail server, news server and maybe a webserver on a cel633 w/512mb.

How different is OpenBSD compared to a linux distribtions, such as Progeny Linux?
 
I personally have OpenBSD running on a number of systems, OpenBSD has a much more sparse feel, they install almost no extras, so you dont have the "bloat" of most Linux distributions (You know the type, who needs 2 dozen text editors? Couldnt they just install emacs and vi and let everyone else download their prefered editor?). It seems very secure to me, I have not had a compromised machine yet. Its very stable, the only time I have had problems is when I oc my machine so high that the processor starts screwing up. Such a system would be great for OpenBSD, I have heard of people hosting sites which get 40gb of hits a month off of K6-2s with OpenBSD. Good luck.
 
I have not had any problems with hardware compatibility, the lists of what is known to work and what is known not to work are availible here, here is the list of working platforms. Undoubtedly there are many items which are not listed, however, it seems to have pretty comprehensive hardware support.
 
I used openBSD on my cable modem firewall/router for about a year... I liked it...it was rock solid, and very easy to use... only had to download a floppy and it installed itself from the internet automatically...that was cool..

But in the end I went back to Redhat Linux because of some things I needed that were not available...

1) I use my sound card to automatically record some radio shows on a regular basis and there are no programs available for OpenBSD that can do "timed" recordings... you can only manually record audio and have to stop it manually...that would not work for my needs...

2) I had a ethernet card go out in my box, and it took me WEEKS to find one that would work... NONE of the cards at BestBuy, CompUSA, or Circuit City would work... used to be the cheapie cards available at these places were all NE2000 based, but now they are all cheap propetary cards like the netgear and stuff are all based on newer, cheaper chips than the old ones... These DO NOT work in OPENBSD... so I found network hardware to be a problem.

3) I am getting into web developemnt, so I wanted to run APACHE, with MySQL, and PHP on my server, and these are just not supported... sure you can run APACHE, but all the things you can run with APAHCE are not available for OpenBSD...thats just a fact.

4) As of version 2.4 of Linux, the firewalling code in LINUX is MUCH more sophisticated and secure than that in OpenBSD... Linux now has what is called "Statefull" firewalling, which is way more advanced than the normal firewalling code that 2.2 of Linux and OpenBSD now has... so theroeticly Linux is a MORE ADVANCED and secure firewall now...this was another reason I went back to Linux... with the new code I was able to migrate from a "default allow" firewall to a "default deny" firewall... if you know what that means..its much more secure.

So...while I found it excellent over all...Linux just wins hands downs to me unless you are going to be doing ONLY ROUTING and/or FIREWALLING.... if you EVER want to do anything else with that box you will be disappointed.


 
I'm currently working on setting up a firewall/router/webserver type machine of my own. It's only going to be a K6-2 366 w/ 32mb of ram, but it should do for my limited uses (it's mainly just going to be a firewall to my main machine). I'm probably going to go with Linux just for the wider array of available software (most can be compiled on *BSD too but the majority is designed with Linux in mind so not all of it will compile "out of the box&quot😉 and the hardware support. Linux also seems to have a brighter future than the *BSD stuff so I figure the more experience with the Linux side of things the more skills I'll have for job interviews.
 


<< 1) I use my sound card to automatically record some radio shows on a regular basis and there are no programs available for OpenBSD that can do &quot;timed&quot; recordings... you can only manually record audio and have to stop it manually...that would not work for my needs... >>



Ok why are you doing these things on a firewall? Not the best of ideas.



<< 2) I had a ethernet card go out in my box, and it took me WEEKS to find one that would work... NONE of the cards at BestBuy, CompUSA, or Circuit City would work... used to be the cheapie cards available at these places were all NE2000 based, but now they are all cheap propetary cards like the netgear and stuff are all based on newer, cheaper chips than the old ones... These DO NOT work in OPENBSD... so I found network hardware to be a problem. >>



Linksys cards work perfectly. They are cheap, work well, and are available in MOST stores.



<< 3) I am getting into web developemnt, so I wanted to run APACHE, with MySQL, and PHP on my server, and these are just not supported... sure you can run APACHE, but all the things you can run with APAHCE are not available for OpenBSD...thats just a fact. >>



OpenBSD supports Apache (installed by default), MySQL, and PHP. Check the ports. They are all there.



<< 4) As of version 2.4 of Linux, the firewalling code in LINUX is MUCH more sophisticated and secure than that in OpenBSD... Linux now has what is called &quot;Statefull&quot; firewalling, which is way more advanced than the normal firewalling code that 2.2 of Linux and OpenBSD now has... so theroeticly Linux is a MORE ADVANCED and secure firewall now...this was another reason I went back to Linux... with the new code I was able to migrate from a &quot;default allow&quot; firewall to a &quot;default deny&quot; firewall... if you know what that means..its much more secure. >>



Where did you get this information? Until 2.9 -current, OpenBSD was using IPFILTER as a firewall. IPF has been stateful before IPTables/2.4 kernel. IPChains was not stateful as you said, and FINALLY linux has a stateful firewall, but OpenBSD has had stateful packet filtering for quite a while. As far as linux being more secure, I am glad they are going back over their code, there is some sloppy work there...



<< So...while I found it excellent over all...Linux just wins hands downs to me unless you are going to be doing ONLY ROUTING and/or FIREWALLING.... if you EVER want to do anything else with that box you will be disappointed. >>



I use OpenBSD as a desktop machine quite easily, but this is just personal prefrence 😉
 

Sorry, there was a bit of confusion on my part... I am looking to install FreeBSD not OpenBSD.

I went out and bought the FreeBSD 4.2 Power Pack the other day... I figured, i'd get a book to read up on it... and for the price I paid, I got a good deal. I got what they say is the best FreeBSD text as well as 10 CDs. I'm probably still gonna buy Progeny Linux... before I make my final decision on what to run on my server.

There was an article on an older version of FreeBSD vs. Linux 2.4. Byte Magazine Article

Which said, other than the fact the lastest Linux has newer hardware support, FreeBSD seems to be superior to the penguined one.

Even in terms of security... they say that FreeBSD is much more customizable.

The fact that the world's busiest FTP site runs on a ppro-200 w/ 1gig of ram and FreeBSD says something about the OS.
 
I read that article the other day. Real intersting. Also isnt't there something about the new Apple OS being derived from BSD?
 
ipf should work with FreeBSD too 😉

FreeBSD is the power behind yahoo! and used to be the power behind hotmail (they finish switching to win2k?) and has one of the best tcp/ip stacks out there. OpenBSD runs the busiest ftp/http site in au off an amd k6-2. And cdrom.com has a single processor xeon I believe and has set records for # of gigabytes (terabytes?) transfered in one day. I have my FreeBSD 4.3 disks sitting right here... Just need a machine to install it on...
 
It depends. First of all, I really wouldn't recommend OpenBSD unless if you've used FreeBSD first, or have a lot of Unix experience - it's a little harder to set up than FreeBSD, IMHO. But I see you said you meant FreeBSD anyway, which is a good thing.

I run Slackware (latest 7.1) for a Counter-Strike server, and it's been very easy to install, setup, and maintain. I also just recently burned from an ISO the latest FreeBSD (I think 4.3) and I like a few things about it. First of all I like the whole /ports aspect. Text files for all of the programs you could ever want to grap the information via FTP and download the latest release, as well as all of the components necessary; according to a friend of mine who will be using this install, anyway. It also has SSH installed and is much more server oriented.

If you truly need the server OS that Free is, then go for it. However, for everyday server operations, with the option of everything that linux has as its base, I'd recommend Slackware or RedHat.
 

I got OpenBSD runnnig on my machine... that's where i'm posting this message...

All I can say is... I LOVE IT!

It's awesome... maybe because I am more ethusiastic about it than Linux...

I installed Apache last night and it ran without a single problem.

I guess there's no real reason for me to buy Progeny Linux now.
 
Well, I wouldn't buy progeny anyways. Download Debian (what Progeny is based off of) and that would work just as good for a server.
 
why run an arcane operating system like BSD or linux? when microsoft ships windows with loads innovative features with easy to configure GUI wizards. its great for 95% of users.

ohh wait, we are those 5%. and we want a powerful and reliable operating system. one thats fun to learn and satisfying to use. something that makes us think and learn and think just a little &quot;out of the box&quot;.

man, this thread has convinced me to play with BSD. i love linux but the last time i tried to isntall freebsd it totally screwed my system up. time for me to learn 🙂
 
fivepesos: Don't scare me like that. After reading the first line of your post I was griting the teeth and preparing a response 🙂. Didn't notice the embedded sarcasm.
 
I couldn't agree more fivepesos :0) Although I want to try BSD cuz I prefer the BSD license over the GPL.

In that vain of the M$ sarcasm has there ever been a thought to having a seperate *nix forum? I hate having to sort through oodles of M$ questions just to find the ones I'm actually interested, and since not everyone includes the OS they're using in the topic, ofttimes you have to click on a topic only to realize its not what you thought....

Anyway, now for something completely off topic: Aren't you supposed to be dead Mister Morden?
 
sry to scare you all, ive managed to pull myself away from my windows roots. until i have to game that is. well i got the freebsd iso and im off to burn and install on my box. check my rigs, its my dualboot box. im also gonna erase everything and install XP, and try some Linux From Scratch. as well as freebsd, wish me luck?
 


<< It depends. First of all, I really wouldn't recommend OpenBSD unless if you've used FreeBSD first, or have a lot of Unix experience - it's a little harder to set up than FreeBSD, IMHO. But I see you said you meant FreeBSD anyway, which is a good thing. >>



Actually I found OpenBSD to be easier than FreeBSD and linux.



<< I run Slackware (latest 7.1) for a Counter-Strike server, and it's been very easy to install, setup, and maintain. I also just recently burned from an ISO the latest FreeBSD (I think 4.3) and I like a few things about it. First of all I like the whole /ports aspect. Text files for all of the programs you could ever want to grap the information via FTP and download the latest release, as well as all of the components necessary; according to a friend of mine who will be using this install, anyway. It also has SSH installed and is much more server oriented. >>



The ports are wonderful. They have been added to NetBSD and OpenBSD. OpenSSH is installed by default on OpenBSD and hopefully FreeBSD. OpenSSH is the product of choice there.



<< If you truly need the server OS that Free is, then go for it. However, for everyday server operations, with the option of everything that linux has as its base, I'd recommend Slackware or RedHat. >>



Slackware was the only linux distro I liked. Another note about The BSDs is the linux compatibility. On OpenBSD I can compile most of the programs written for linux (except the ones by the programmers who code ONLY for linux) and run a good deal of linux binaries through linux emulation, sometimes faster than a linux machine can.
 
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