Brits cut the budget 25%

[highland145]

Honestly I think that kind of a system is fairer than in the US where programs like WIC, Foodstams and AFDC are only available to the irresponsible who have kids that they can't afford.

And very difficult to get for the people that are just having a rough spot because they may have a car or bank account.

 

[ElFenix]

Either way, spending is relative. Look at the debt to GDP ratio for most European countries. They don't quite spend like we do.

before the crap hit the fan we had a lower debt-gdp ratio than most of europe.

 

[zephyrprime]

Austerity programs as they are crafted by the european nations will not work because they reduce liquidity in the financial system. The best thing to do in situations like the current one would be austerity programs coupled with liquidity increases. Unfortunately, with the current financial system we have, this cannot be done because we have no way of escaping a liquidity trap during strong deflationary periods.

The european nations are all enacting austerity programs which are foolish given the experiences of the great depression. These programs will starve the economy of liquidity making things worse. GDP and tax revenues will decrease.

 

[Jaskalas]

US has nothing like that. Comparing US to UK's level is not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

The stimulus package alone would be $2,000 per person if we had 350 MILLION people to give it to. We easily spend money, we just don't spend it on programs like those.

 

[ayabe]

OK let's cut the budget but let's be real about it, meaning that military spending, entitlements, and education are on the table, no exemptions for anyone.

**crickets***

 

[Jaskalas]

OK let's cut the budget but let's be real about it, meaning that military spending, entitlements, and education are on the table, no exemptions for anyone.

**crickets***

Greece was all crickets. We know how that turns out. Who is going to bail us out?

 

[highland145]

OK let's cut the budget but let's be real about it, meaning that military spending, entitlements, and education are on the table, no exemptions for anyone.

**crickets***

I stepped on the cricket. Everything should be on the table.

 

[Jaskalas]

I stepped on the cricket. Everything should be on the table.

Bring our military home, and place them on the border. It's cheaper than having them overseas.

Okay, it's your turn.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Greece was all crickets. We know how that turns out. Who is going to bail us out?

Greece was all corruption. Hardly a valid comparison.

 

[GroundedSailor]

income tax exemptions.




it's a 2.5 percentage point increase, or a 20 percent increase.

/grammar nazi

Sorry, didn't read your initial post properly. Not trying to be any kind of Nazi.

Can you explain your comment about tax exemption?

 

[nick1985]

OK let's cut the budget but let's be real about it, meaning that military spending, entitlements, and education are on the table, no exemptions for anyone.

**crickets***

I'm for that

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I wonder how long before our government realizes that this is necessary for the US? Or will that be the next administration's problem?

They're just passing the buck until another President with an -R next to his name is in office. then they can say It's Bush's fault or it's the Republicans fault.

 

[monkeh624]

Probably would, but that is not what is happening in the UK. The VAT is going from 17.5% to 20%. I believe it was already at 20% before the crisis, and it got lowered.

Before the bail-out of the banks, VAT was 17.5% in the UK. After the bail-out, they reduced it to 15% for about a year or so for the 'stimulus' package.
Then it got put back up to 17.5% and now its being increased to 20% (although this doesn't come into effect until Jan 2011).

 

[highland145]

Bring our military home, and place them on the border. It's cheaper than having them overseas.

Okay, it's your turn.

Suits the hell out of me. Secure the borders, let the middle easterners get back to killing each other, like they have for thousands of years.

And cut the hell out of govt spending. Across the board, to be fair. Balanced budget amendment. If there is a tax increase, there needs to be a guaranteed offset somewhere else so that congress doesn't have more $$ to spend and no way for them to get it, unlike what happened to the social security pool.

 

[Jaskalas]

They're just passing the buck until another President with an -R next to his name is in office. then they can say It's Bush's fault or it's the Republicans fault.

Bush grew spending. He DID pass the buck.

 

[ElFenix]

Sorry, didn't read your initial post properly. Not trying to be any kind of Nazi.

Can you explain your comment about tax exemption?

no i was being a grammar nazi for pointing out that a 2.5 percentage point increase could very well be a 20 percent increase.


as for exemptions, i think someone else covered it, but look at line 6 (and box 6d, specifically), and line 42 on a 1040. you get $3650 off your taxable income. not the same as an allowance, but similar. at top rates that's about $20 a week, give or take.

and yes, it's not exactly the same thing, but it is similar.

frankly i think if we're going to do this sort of welfare that system does make sense. it's kinda like the prebate system the fairtax would use. everyone gets it regardless. there's a lot more money running through the system but a lot less overhead.

 

[highland145]

Bush grew spending. He DID pass the buck.

Yes but not like the bucks that will be passed now.

I'm not giving B spending a pass. Didn't like or agree with it. The current spending is scary.

 

[ayabe]

I stepped on the cricket. Everything should be on the table.

Everyone says that but when push comes to shove no one wants to give up anything.

The Baggers don't want to cut entitlements, except for the poors.

The hawks don't want to cut military spending because Raytheon and Boeing need their subsidies.

The libs don't want to cut education/entitlements.

The corporatists don't want to close all the tax loopholes...

 

[drebo]

Education spending should not be cut. If anything, we should spend more on it. Education is by far the most important thing we can do with our government money.

That said, the education system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's corrupt and bloated. Trim the fat and let the dollars we spend go further. There's no reason a high school of 2000 kids needs 5 fulltime secretaries in the attendance office alone. The administrator:student ratio is WAY higher than the teacher:student ratio in California, and that's pretty fucked up.

 

[highland145]

Everyone says that but when push comes to shove no one wants to give up anything.

The Baggers don't want to cut entitlements, except for the poors.

The hawks don't want to cut military spending because Raytheon and Boeing need their subsidies.

The libs don't want to cut education/entitlements.

The corporatists don't want to close all the tax loopholes...

I agree with you but at some point the bus goes off the cliff and everyone loses. My guess is that is what is going to happen because of your point.

 

[highland145]

Education spending should not be cut. If anything, we should spend more on it. Education is by far the most important thing we can do with our government money.

That said, the education system as a whole needs to be reformed. It's corrupt and bloated. Trim the fat and let the dollars we spend go further. There's no reason a high school of 2000 kids needs 5 fulltime secretaries in the attendance office alone. The administrator:student ratio is WAY higher than the teacher:student ratio in California, and that's pretty fucked up.

Do the second and you won't have to do the first. S.C. education system,even after the recent cuts, gets $8500/kid and the education sucks. I pay 60% of that for my son to be in a school with 15 kids/class and they rank in the 95% on national testing.

youtube 20/20 stupid in America. Enlightening.

 

[Perknose]

Actually it's only a 2.5% increase in VAT. The total VAT has gone up to 20%.
.

it's a 2.5 percentage point increase, or a 20 percent increase.

/grammar nazi

A 20% increase over the current 17.5% would be 3.5%, not 2.5%.

/math nazi?

 

[GroundedSailor]

as for exemptions, i think someone else covered it, but look at line 6 (and box 6d, specifically), and line 42 on a 1040. you get $3650 off your taxable income. not the same as an allowance, but similar. at top rates that's about $20 a week, give or take.

and yes, it's not exactly the same thing, but it is similar.

frankly i think if we're going to do this sort of welfare that system does make sense. it's kinda like the prebate system the fairtax would use. everyone gets it regardless. there's a lot more money running through the system but a lot less overhead.

OK, US has child credit on 1040, so does UK.

UK has child benefit - which is the weekly allowance - US has none.

In UK the Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit are 2 different things.

 

[IGBT]

I wonder how bad the "conservatives" posting here would squeal if we had a 20% tax increase. Extremely loudly, I expect.

that's easy to deal with. Lay off and downsize to pay for the taxes. And no new jobs.

 

[ElFenix]

A 20% increase over the current 17.5% would be 3.5%, not 2.5%.

/math nazi?

i never bothered to look at the numbers, just pointing out that percent increase and percentage point increase are two different things
:sneaky:

OK, US has child credit on 1040, so does UK.

UK has child benefit - which is the weekly allowance - US has none.

In UK the Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit are 2 different things.

like i said, no the same but similar