British/European Work Ethic

[Connoisseur]

Cliffs at bottom

Background: I work at my company's NY office but was sent to the London branch of my company 3 weeks ago to train our UK consultants in the use of a software suite. I was also there to lead a couple of large projects. It's a lot of hard work as we're currently understaffed for these projects and i've spent many long long nights here so far getting everything up to speed.

Issue: The majority of the native UK'ers are lazy as hell. Most of the people who work for me do the bare necessary amount of work to get the job done. It's a constant struggle to get them to stay even an extra hour to do the work properly or get a little extra info out to please the clients. In NY, being a consultant in our field means that occasionally a project will require us to stay long hours. Here it seems like, regardless of project deadlines, no one is willing to put extra effort.

Now I would like nothing more than having a steady 9-5 from day to day but I understand that it just isn't feasible (all the time) given the industry i'm in. It seems that no one here shares that viewpoint. On top of this, i was told that corporations in the UK are required to have a specific hiring workflow wherein they give new employees a set probationary period after which they're officially signed up. If the company wants to fire an employee after this period, it's an extremely difficult process. While i think this method has some benefits, I think it also has drawbacks based on the fact that the employees are basically "locked into" their job after the 3 month period and it seems to encourage laziness. Meanwhile, i'm struggling to meet client expectations and have to regularly work into the wee hours of the night to compensate for all the others.

In addition, it seems client service isn't exactly the most valued trait for many companies around here. I think my boss (american guy sent to run the UK office for a couple of years) put it perfectly: "In the US, companies exist to make a profit and please clients. In the UK, companies exist to employ people."

While I have the greatest experience with people in my company, i've been told (by native Londoners), that this is a cultural thing rather than specific to any small group of people. I'd like some input. Is this true of the UK and/or Europeans?

Cliffs:
1) Was assigned to london office for a few weeks to run projects and train consultants
2) UK Consultants not willing to stay late or put extra effort to get job done right
3) UK Consultants are also locked into positions after a probationary period
3) I have to struggle to get projects done and have to work late myself
4) Do most Europeans have this nonchalant work ethic?
5)... fail?

 

[silverpig]

While you sit in the office alone at night pecking away at your keyboard, the guy you call lazy just finished banging his wife and is now telling her about this keener guy from the US who seems to have no life outside of work

 

[sandorski]

Not Laziness, just different priorities. Europeans Work to Live, not Live to Work. If they are doing the minimum, but getting the job done, who cares?

 

[biggestmuff]

Maybe they're too busy working on their morris dancing or personal hygiene.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: silverpig
While you sit in the office alone at night pecking away at your keyboard, the guy you call lazy just finished banging his wife and is now telling her about this keener guy from the US who seems to have no life outside of work

I would hope for something like that.
As Sandorski put it, it's work to live, not live to work.


I have no intention of being a workaholic. I'd be closer to being called "ergophobic."
I'd like a job where I can put in my 8hrs a day, 5 days a week, and that's it. The rest of the time, I don't even want to have to think about the job.
I do intend to be fully productive during those 8hrs, and not kill time on certain things like ATOT or Ikariam. But once the 8hrs is up, I'd very much like to be out of there, doing something I actually enjoy doing.

 

[Mo0o]

Hmm I wonder if that's true among the top banking and consulting firms in Europe. Seems like it'd be hard to keep up w/ the US work ethic, especialy in fields where timing is important. But I can see how it's just a priorities thing where they dont really care about delivering a quality product or being the best at what they do (whether that be individual, team, company wide etc) but just want to put in the 9-5 (or maybe 10-4), collect the check, then go do other things.

 

[Colt45]

Some people value the fact that people fought for an 8 hour work day.

 

[Whitecloak]

I have worked with clients in different counties and generally I have found that

Japanese > Chinese = US > Europeans.

 

[Allanv]

Most places do not pay overtime so the mentality is I will only work the hours I am paid for nothing else.

 

[dighn]

From what you describe, they are not lazy. They just don't let work consume their life.

 

[CasioTech]

while you get cancer and work your ass of out of greed, people in the UK will actually enjoy their lives and die a happy death instead of a miserable one.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Yeah, they don't have the same work ethic and god bless them for it. A 40 hour work week actually exists there.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Not Laziness, just different priorities. Europeans Work to Live, not Live to Work. If they are doing the minimum, but getting the job done, who cares?

See, I've thought of this argument but here it is... there are PLENTY of jobs in the US that are straight 9-5 deals. But in our industry (litigation support if anyone cares), clients frequently have tight deadlines and demand a little more for what they're paying. In the US, if people want 9-5, they can easily go out and find those jobs. They just can't have the expectation of getting payed very well compared to others in the corporate world or moving up in the ranks quickly. Here it seems, there's an expectation to get paid well and STILL have the 9-5 hours.

In addition to the hourly requirement, there's a general malaise towards picking up any new skills or assisting others in projects that they weren't originally qualified for. For instance, in the US, most of my fellow workers are happy to help with other projects or pick up some new skills if under-utilized. Here, people just want to do the specific task for which they're hired and are unwilling to pick up any new skills to assist others.

As I mentioned, I'm absolutely a fan of regular hours and getting out while there's still sunlight. But, in this industry, you can't have that expectation all the time. "Work to live" is a great mantra but if you want that sort of lifestyle, go into another field.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
while you get cancer and work your ass of out of greed, people in the UK will actually enjoy their lives and die a happy death instead of a miserable one.

Right... and they're paying taxes through the nose. The fact that these people manage to save money is frankly a miracle.

I do work long hours sometimes and it does get stressful. But that's the industry that i'm in and it's my choice. To be completely honest, I get bored as hell sitting at home watching TV or playing video games if I get out early. I fully enjoy my life as it is considering I work in NY and it caters to the late night lifestyle . I'm also fortunate enough to have great co-workers and good friends whom I hang out with on a regular basis. Please don't assume i'm miserable just because i'm okay with working late to get the job done right.

::Edit:: and why would I get cancer? I don't smoke, I USUALLY eat healthy and work out regularly. I also try to get at least 6 hours of rest a night.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur

Originally posted by: sandorski
Not Laziness, just different priorities. Europeans Work to Live, not Live to Work. If they are doing the minimum, but getting the job done, who cares?

See, I've thought of this argument but here it is... there are PLENTY of jobs in the US that are straight 9-5 deals. But in our industry (litigation support if anyone cares), clients frequently have tight deadlines and demand a little more for what they're paying. In the US, if people want 9-5, they can easily go out and find those jobs. They just can't have the expectation of getting payed very well compared to others in the corporate world or moving up in the ranks quickly. Here it seems, there's an expectation to get paid well and STILL have the 9-5 hours.

In addition to the hourly requirement, there's a general malaise towards picking up any new skills or assisting others in projects that they weren't originally qualified for. For instance, in the US, most of my fellow workers are happy to help with other projects or pick up some new skills if under-utilized. Here, people just want to do the specific task for which they're hired and are unwilling to pick up any new skills to assist others.

As I mentioned, I'm absolutely a fan of regular hours and getting out while there's still sunlight. But, in this industry, you can't have that expectation all the time. "Work to live" is a great mantra but if you want that sort of lifestyle, go into another field.

Apparently it's working out well for your UK staffers regardless, you have customers and they have a job.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur
Right... and they're paying taxes through the nose. The fact that these people manage to save money is frankly a miracle.

taxes and not working overtime are unrelated.

if you want to work 12hr days, stay stateside.

 

[yours truly]

i work in the UK, and even though i give 110% whist working, as soon as my shift is over im gone.

but, aside from the UK and germany, the rest of europe's work ethic is very laid back

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur

Originally posted by: sandorski
Not Laziness, just different priorities. Europeans Work to Live, not Live to Work. If they are doing the minimum, but getting the job done, who cares?

See, I've thought of this argument but here it is... there are PLENTY of jobs in the US that are straight 9-5 deals. But in our industry (litigation support if anyone cares), clients frequently have tight deadlines and demand a little more for what they're paying. In the US, if people want 9-5, they can easily go out and find those jobs. They just can't have the expectation of getting payed very well compared to others in the corporate world or moving up in the ranks quickly. Here it seems, there's an expectation to get paid well and STILL have the 9-5 hours.

In addition to the hourly requirement, there's a general malaise towards picking up any new skills or assisting others in projects that they weren't originally qualified for. For instance, in the US, most of my fellow workers are happy to help with other projects or pick up some new skills if under-utilized. Here, people just want to do the specific task for which they're hired and are unwilling to pick up any new skills to assist others.

As I mentioned, I'm absolutely a fan of regular hours and getting out while there's still sunlight. But, in this industry, you can't have that expectation all the time. "Work to live" is a great mantra but if you want that sort of lifestyle, go into another field.

People fought and died for a 40 hr week during the 19th century. Why shouldn't they have an expectation to get paid well and work 40 hrs? We're the suckers. Corporate slaves that put in 60 hr weeks and have a suffering family life just so we can meet some deadline for some project that will be shelved a year later.

Who cares - we don't get a dime more, only the company does.

 

[CasioTech]

stress = cancer. The US has the among the highest cancer rates of the world.

 

[CasioTech]

Originally posted by: hopeless74
i work in the UK, and even though i give 110% whist working, as soon as my shift is over im gone.

but, aside from the UK and germany, the rest of europe's work ethic is very laid back

how about those italians?

 

[yours truly]

Originally posted by: CasioTech

Originally posted by: hopeless74
i work in the UK, and even though i give 110% whist working, as soon as my shift is over im gone.

but, aside from the UK and germany, the rest of europe's work ethic is very laid back

how about those italians?

and spanish and french ;p

it seems their quality of life is much better. work is a 2nd priority.
(just my opinion)

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
stress = cancer. The US has the among the highest cancer rates of the world.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

 

[gar3555]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: Connoisseur

Originally posted by: sandorski
Not Laziness, just different priorities. Europeans Work to Live, not Live to Work. If they are doing the minimum, but getting the job done, who cares?

See, I've thought of this argument but here it is... there are PLENTY of jobs in the US that are straight 9-5 deals. But in our industry (litigation support if anyone cares), clients frequently have tight deadlines and demand a little more for what they're paying. In the US, if people want 9-5, they can easily go out and find those jobs. They just can't have the expectation of getting payed very well compared to others in the corporate world or moving up in the ranks quickly. Here it seems, there's an expectation to get paid well and STILL have the 9-5 hours.

In addition to the hourly requirement, there's a general malaise towards picking up any new skills or assisting others in projects that they weren't originally qualified for. For instance, in the US, most of my fellow workers are happy to help with other projects or pick up some new skills if under-utilized. Here, people just want to do the specific task for which they're hired and are unwilling to pick up any new skills to assist others.

As I mentioned, I'm absolutely a fan of regular hours and getting out while there's still sunlight. But, in this industry, you can't have that expectation all the time. "Work to live" is a great mantra but if you want that sort of lifestyle, go into another field.

People fought and died for a 40 hr week during the 19th century. Why shouldn't they have an expectation to get paid well and work 40 hrs? We're the suckers. Corporate slaves that put in 60 hr weeks and have a suffering family life just so we can meet some deadline for some project that will be shelved a year later.

Who cares - we don't get a dime more, only the company does.

Maybe you don't, but I get paid overtime for every hour over eight.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: CasioTech
stress = cancer. The US has the among the highest cancer rates of the world.

Cancer = Genetic abnormalities leading to uncontrolled cell division.

We also love to immerse ourselves in chemicals in the household, to the point where indoor air is often more polluted than the air outside. Ever wonder what's in an air freshener? I looked at the ingredient listing on a Glade plug-in thing. "Ingredient: Fragrance." If other industries followed that shining example, you'd pick up a box of cereal and the label would read, "Ingredient: Food."
Air fresheners, cleaning agents, etc. All kinds of substances that don't have to indicate what they're made of.

Prolonged exposure to potentially toxic chemicals can cause genetic problems, to the point of leading to cancer.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Hmm I wonder if that's true among the top banking and consulting firms in Europe. Seems like it'd be hard to keep up w/ the US work ethic, especialy in fields where timing is important. But I can see how it's just a priorities thing where they dont really care about delivering a quality product or being the best at what they do (whether that be individual, team, company wide etc) but just want to put in the 9-5 (or maybe 10-4), collect the check, then go do other things.

US work ethic? How many people do you think are on this site neffing all day at the office...and are in the US.

I work for a SAP consulting firm and I work with other consultants from all over Europe and the US. In my own experience, the European consultants are just as hard working (especially the Germans) and don't sit around surfing the internet half the day like colleagues of mine did at my last job in the US.

Currently I'm working on a Project in Norwich, UK...and they people here work very hard all day. The key users may leave close to 5pm...but they are working hard all day. The remainder of the consultants (some of us from the US, a few from the UK, and the rest Swiss/German) all work at least till 7pm...many days later.

Stop generalizing. Stop thinking hours at work = productivity...that's the shittiest way to attempt to manage employees. Start developing proper performance matrices and actually manage their performance.