British Cop killed in Anti-Terror raid..Do they carry guns?

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: psianime
I don't think the suspect would be able to blink before he's shot from 10 different angles for being a thret if this happend here in the states.

-psianime

Like it was said, they had strict orders to keep the suspects alive. There was/is a risk of big terrorist-attack taking place so they had to be kept alive.

 

[tcsenter]

Define classical martial arts.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to answer this. By classical martial arts, I was referring to the stuff that was being published in magazines like Black Belt and Martial Arts magazine during the time.

IIRC, one of the reasons they were met with such hostility, is because the 'techniques' they were testing were representative of those that were being featured in popular martial arts magazines and when they denounced those techniques, basically calling them failures, they also named the names of their proponents and principle advocates, who happened to be well-respected in the martial arts community. That's always one way to make a lot of friends and supporters. haha!

These guys were hard core. They would actually "surprise" each other, pretending to be a mugger or a robber. lol!

Its one thing to be in a dojo, when your blood is already pumping, when you are in work-out attire, your state of alertness at a high, and not only are you 'ready' for something to happen, but in most cases you know what is about to happen.

Its quite another to be coming home from the grocery store and have a gun shoved in your face. They recognized this is the inherent flaw in any martial arts discipline; it is controlled, scripted, you are prepared, aware of what is about to happen; i.e. it isn't reality. So they decided to bring an element of reality into their work. Crazy bastards.

 

[authenticate]

It goes without saying that the classic mistake made by the tactical team was in not handcuffing the suspects. They were there because they wanted to arrest someone for questioning. They found three men which should have been enough reason to 'cuff them. An hour later the struggle started by which time the non-tactical team had entered the supposedly 'secured building'. An investigation should lead to someone being disciplined.

 

[BaDaBooM]

No actually with respect to firearm disarmament very little has changed in the past 20 years. These two guys were on the cutting edge then, and the mainstream martial arts community largely dismissed their revolutionary work because neither of these guys is a "martial arts" guy. They have no black belts, they have no "dan", no "sifu", no "style", which is everything in martial arts.

I don't know what places that they went to, but the ones I have trained with are nothing like that. A true martial artist knows that the only thing a belt is good for is to hold your pants up. Actually I wasn't referring to the techniques changing but I was referring to the sharing and spreading of techniques between the military and martial arts. The military teaches some techniques that came from martial arts and likewise, at least at our schools, some military techniques have been adopted into martial arts.

There are some things you cannot 'simulate', by making a bang noise, or using a cap gun. A cap gun is not a real gun, not the same trigger pull. Pain is the most effective teaching tool, so if you can prove your disarmament technique works by avoiding a wax bullet to the face or the neck, its a success. That is the where the rubber meets the road, as they say, and these guys have done it over and over, exploring every possible permutation of scenario; robberies, muggings, abduction scenarios, tactical situations, etc.

This is a null and void argument about my experience as I was trying to say that I never had a chance to pull the trigger.... so doesn't matter what kind of gun or trigger pressure it requires, since it was too quick for me to even send the nerve signal to my finger to pull it (and I don't have slow reflexes).

Its one thing to be in a dojo, when your blood is already pumping, when you are in work-out attire, your state of alertness at a high, and not only are you 'ready' for something to happen, but in most cases you know what is about to happen.

You are right that there is nothing like reality but even their situation is not real as they know it won't kill them. Also they may be ready, but so was I. So I was also extra alert to pull the trigger faster than an actual attacker as he wouldn't know that the guy is going to try to disarm him.

I'm just saying that there are martial arts techniques that are absolutely effective as I have experienced them personally. However there is no such thing as a magical move that anybody can do to disarm someone... you MUST be an elite martial artist to effectively use them.... and then it is still not guaranteed. I don't dispute those guys as having an effective teaching mechanism, but you don't have to go to those lengths. Reminds me of a guy who put razor blades on his num-chucks (spelling?).... effective, but kinda stupid. Really one of the objects of martial arts is to train your body to do the techniques without having to really think about it and if you have done that successfully then you can translate the training in the dojo into real world situations.