British Cop killed in Anti-Terror raid..Do they carry guns?

[Grey]

I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

British policeman killed

 

[Howard]

WTF? Do British policemen not look out for their own safety?

 

[DigDug]

Always muslims, it seems.

 

[Anubis]

Do they carry guns

no regular british poliece dont carry guns. only the special swat peopel get them

 

[Grey]

That is crazy, so if they run into unexpected violence the have to just take it or run away and call the special police?

 

[tcsenter]

I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

This underscores that a knife is a deadly weapon, and not a particularly easy weapon to defeat, either.

Any good knife-fighting and edged weapon instructor worth his salt will tell you straight off, if you have to face someone armed with a knife, and you are empty handed, prepare to be slashed, st@bbed, or cut. Someone with minimal blade skills can slash and st@b ten police officers before they will be able to overcome him. An absolute rank amateur can slash and st@b two or three before being subdued.

Every time there is a protest or outrage because a police officer shot a deranged knife-weilding suspect instead of just walking up and taking the knife away, as though we all live on the Silver Screen, I always want those protestors to first show everyone how its done on an actual deranged knife-weilder, since they apparently believe its so easy.

 

[WileCoyote]

is getting st@bbed similar to getting stabbed? is it just as painful to feel as it is to read?

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Sorry to see another good man gave his life fighting the good fight.

That said, the police need to carry firearms and should have fired upon the suspect as soon as he weilded the knife.
Instead of a dead cop (bad thing) we would have had a dead scumbag (good thing).

 

[tcsenter]

is getting st@bbed similar to getting stabbed? is it just as painful to feel as it is to read?

Well try posting a message with the word "st@b" in it, except with an "a" in place of the "@", its a prohibited word. I just figured "stabbed" was prohibited, too. I mean who would of thunk that "st@b" is a prohibited word but "stabbed" is not? Defies logic.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

This underscores that a knife is a deadly weapon, and not a particularly easy weapon to defeat, either.

Any good knife-fighting and edged weapon instructor worth his salt will tell you straight off, if you have to face someone armed with a knife, and you are empty handed, prepare to be slashed, st@bbed, or cut. Someone with minimal blade skills can slash and st@b ten police officers before they will be able to overcome him. An absolute rank amateur can slash and st@b two or three before being subdued.

Every time there is a protest or outrage because a police officer shot a deranged knife-weilding suspect instead of just walking up and taking the knife away, as though we all live on the Silver Screen, I always want those protestors to first show everyone how its done on an actual deranged knife-weilder, since they apparently believe its so easy.

Oh thats not near as bad as stephen segal disarming a guy who is pointing a gun at him. how long does it take to pull a trigger

 

[BaDaBooM]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

This underscores that a knife is a deadly weapon, and not a particularly easy weapon to defeat, either.

Any good knife-fighting and edged weapon instructor worth his salt will tell you straight off, if you have to face someone armed with a knife, and you are empty handed, prepare to be slashed, st@bbed, or cut. Someone with minimal blade skills can slash and st@b ten police officers before they will be able to overcome him. An absolute rank amateur can slash and st@b two or three before being subdued.

Every time there is a protest or outrage because a police officer shot a deranged knife-weilding suspect instead of just walking up and taking the knife away, as though we all live on the Silver Screen, I always want those protestors to first show everyone how its done on an actual deranged knife-weilder, since they apparently believe its so easy.

Oh thats not near as bad as stephen segal disarming a guy who is pointing a gun at him. how long does it take to pull a trigger

Not to say movies aren't bullsh1t, but it is possible... not likely but if you are quick you can do it. I've been involved in martial arts and training seminars and seen some good demonstrations and known the people personally. I saw one where a guy had a gun (fake) pointed at the middle of a guys back. The idea was for him to say, "Bang!" as soon as "the victim" moved. Actually it was pretty funny cuz at first the guy didn't wait until the guy moved and just said bang right after they told him to. But then he understood and then he was disarmed before he even had a chance to utter a sound. Again this is only if you are very quick and they are dumb enough to get that close to you. Really it makes sense, because it takes more time for a person to see and then react than someone else to just act. The old saying, "the hand is quicker than the eye" applies. However you are taking a huge gamble if you try.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: BaDaBooM

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: tcsenter

I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

This underscores that a knife is a deadly weapon, and not a particularly easy weapon to defeat, either.

Any good knife-fighting and edged weapon instructor worth his salt will tell you straight off, if you have to face someone armed with a knife, and you are empty handed, prepare to be slashed, st@bbed, or cut. Someone with minimal blade skills can slash and st@b ten police officers before they will be able to overcome him. An absolute rank amateur can slash and st@b two or three before being subdued.

Every time there is a protest or outrage because a police officer shot a deranged knife-weilding suspect instead of just walking up and taking the knife away, as though we all live on the Silver Screen, I always want those protestors to first show everyone how its done on an actual deranged knife-weilder, since they apparently believe its so easy.

Oh thats not near as bad as stephen segal disarming a guy who is pointing a gun at him. how long does it take to pull a trigger

Not to say movies aren't bullsh1t, but it is possible... not likely but if you are quick you can do it. I've been involved in martial arts and training seminars and seen some good demonstrations and known the people personally. I saw one where a guy had a gun (fake) pointed at the middle of a guys back. The idea was for him to say, "Bang!" as soon as "the victim" moved. Actually it was pretty funny cuz at first the guy didn't wait until the guy moved and just said bang right after they told him to. But then he understood and then he was disarmed before he even had a chance to utter a sound. Again this is only if you are very quick and they are dumb enough to get that close to you. Really it makes sense, because it takes more time for a person to see and then react than someone else to just act. The old saying, "the hand is quicker than the eye" applies. However you are taking a huge gamble if you try.

Very interesting. I certainly would'nt volunteer for an actual test no matter what training I had... He should have tried it with a pellet gun or paint ball. Oh well.

 

[Dari]

it is absolutely stupid for real policemen to not carry a glock. I thought that the cops in britain that didn't carry weapons were those that posed for tourists. Dumbest thing out of England, ever. Hopefully the rest of Europe is brighter.

 

[UNCjigga]

WTF? Don't the British cops at least have their own knives?? Remember Croc Dundee, "that's not a knife, THIS is a knife!" Wait...he was Aussie...

 

[justint]

Originally posted by: Grey
I was reading this article and it said 5 cops got stabbed before subduing the suspect! Damn if this was the US that mo-fo would have been able to piss 40 different ways just waving the knife.

British policeman killed

This raid was conducted by a tactical team from the Metropolitan police who were armed and wearing raid gear who made the initial entry. They has supposedly secured the subjects. This incident happened during the search of the premises. Some officers from special branch who were armed but in plainclothes and not wearing protective vests were there gathering information. They were attacked when the subject who was still on the premises managed to get a kitchen knife. One special branch officer was killed and several others were wounded in the struggle. You have to realize that this was not an ordinary raid. Special branch officers and the tactical team were probably given explicit orders to take these men alive as an ongoing terrorist threat involving a lethal agent is involved. The presence or abscence of guns had nothing to do with it. It was a matter of a poorly controlled subject, a very confined space, and chaos.

 

[NokiaDude]

No guns, they carry beat sticks!!!

 

[tcsenter]

Very interesting. I certainly would'nt volunteer for an actual test no matter what training I had... He should have tried it with a pellet gun or paint ball. Oh well.

There are a couple guys, I can't remember their names, but about 20 years ago they set-out to 'test' then-current school of thought and technique commonly being taught in the martial arts community as to how to deal with a firearm. They took real handguns and used custom rounds with a soft wax load and reduced charge. Now this load won't kill you, but it will break the skin, put an eye out, knock a tooth out, or give you a very painful welt where ever they hit, even through a sweatshirt or light jacket.

Then they donned safety gear, wore two thicknesses of clothes, protective goggles, and tested all the allegedly 'proven' and 'effective' techniques being taught by various dojos across the country. Their conclusion was, if you try ANY of that sh-t being taught by classical martial arts dojos and instructors, it will get you killed.

They then set about devising more effective and proven techniques. They shot each other something like 2000 times in the process of weeding out what worked and what didn't work by trial and error, and came up with a disarmament philosophy that is taught to law enforcement and military personnel.

I wish I could remember their names....

 

[BaDaBooM]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Very interesting. I certainly would'nt volunteer for an actual test no matter what training I had... He should have tried it with a pellet gun or paint ball. Oh well.

There are a couple guys, I can't remember their names, but about 20 years ago they set-out to 'test' then-current school of thought and technique commonly being taught in the martial arts community as to how to deal with a firearm. They took real handguns and used custom rounds with a soft wax load and reduced charge. Now this load won't kill you, but it will break the skin, put an eye out, knock a tooth out, or give you a very painful welt where ever they hit, even through a sweatshirt or light jacket.

Then they donned safety gear, wore two thicknesses of clothes, protective goggles, and tested all the allegedly 'proven' and 'effective' techniques being taught by various dojos across the country. Their conclusion was, if you try ANY of that sh-t being taught by classical martial arts dojos and instructors, it will get you killed.

They then set about devising more effective and proven techniques. They shot each other something like 2000 times in the process of weeding out what worked and what didn't work by trial and error, and came up with a disarmament philosophy that is taught to law enforcement and military personnel.

I wish I could remember their names....

Define classical martial arts. I would buy this if this was done many years ago like early 1980s or earlier as martial arts have changed. (or maybe they just had crappy instructors... as I have seen those too) Martial arts and law enforcement and military training are very inter-twined now a days. Both sides influencing eachother. I have been involved with martial arts for many years and personally known the people involved and also have known those in the military. I have also been the "attacker" and tested some of these myself. The ones that were taught by my instructor worked... Doesn't matter whether they made a very realistic gun or had a cap gun. If I couldn't pull the trigger on the cap gun quick enough to even make it fire then I couldn't have shot a real gun either. The trick is that it only works if the attacker is only being reactive (firing only on your movement) cuz if they are gonna shoot you anyway then there is no fight. They also have to be very close, if they are at a distance, you have no chance. Also you have to be VERY good. This is also overlooked, as could have been the case with these men. Even if all these conditions are met, my instructor was very clear that there are still no guarantees... you are only increasing your chances.

Edit: doh, missed the 20 years ago part... maybe 20 years ago.. but that's mostly cuz there were a lot of wanna be martial art dojos out in America in the following decade or so of Bruce Lee's death.

 

[pyonir]

no regular british poliece dont carry guns. only the special swat peopel get them

Detectives carry as well. Well they are allowed to, but some don't.

 

[NFS4]

They need those head sticks from Demolition Man

 

[HannibalX]

Originally posted by: WileCoyote
is getting st@bbed similar to getting stabbed? is it just as painful to feel as it is to read?

HAHAHHA! LOL!

 

[tcsenter]

Define classical martial arts. I would buy this if this was done many years ago like early 1980s or earlier as martial arts have changed. (or maybe they just had crappy instructors... as I have seen those too) Martial arts and law enforcement and military training are very inter-twined now a days.

No actually with respect to firearm disarmament very little has changed in the past 20 years. These two guys were on the cutting edge then, and the mainstream martial arts community largely dismissed their revolutionary work because neither of these guys is a "martial arts" guy. They have no black belts, they have no "dan", no "sifu", no "style", which is everything in martial arts. It doesn't matter if you can toss second and third degree black belts around all day long, you're not going to get the chance, because if you don't have a "formal" degree of proficiency from a "recognized" style that is ordained by an "recognized" lineage of martial arts instructors, they're not even going to return your telephone calls. There is a martial arts 'establishment' no different than the medical 'establishment'.

It would be like some guy with no doctorate degree in biology or medicine trying to get his foot in the door at a medical convention. Not gonna happen.

Doesn't matter whether they made a very realistic gun or had a cap gun. If I couldn't pull the trigger on the cap gun quick enough to even make it fire then I couldn't have shot a real gun either.

There are some things you cannot 'simulate', by making a bang noise, or using a cap gun. A cap gun is not a real gun, not the same trigger pull. Pain is the most effective teaching tool, so if you can prove your disarmament technique works by avoiding a wax bullet to the face or the neck, its a success. That is the where the rubber meets the road, as they say, and these guys have done it over and over, exploring every possible permutation of scenario; robberies, muggings, abduction scenarios, tactical situations, etc.

Risk-free "scripted" demonstrations are easy, which makes them worthless.

 

[psianime]

I don't think the suspect would be able to blink before he's shot from 10 different angles for being a thret if this happend here in the states.

-psianime

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: BlipBlop
Always muslims, it seems.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: BlipBlop
Always muslims, it seems.

heh