Briggs and Stratton V.S. Kohler

[alkemyst]

Alky this I would like to hear...? We may not agree (but remember thats ok too)

I think the reason that Eli is saying a better engine should perform better under all conditions is the same as mine... Which is the durability of the Kawasaki small engines for a simple fact its better in both track record and design (just saw his post and was close )... Its like comparing old school to newer tech... Not that I dont like Briggs or Kohler but even years ago John Deere used Kawasaki engines in their mowers but stopped mainly due to cost but there are a ton of those older units still going strong while their counter parts (Briggs & Kohler) have been replaced or rebuilt in a lot of cases more than once... I know I used to work for John Deere and worked on those mowers besides the big stuff... Infact we changed so man Kohler V-twins because of lifter collapse that we had to store the warranty claim engines in their own seperate building... Also the Intek Briggs V-twins had alot of issues with the governor shafts coming loose and the governor would fly apart inside and the engine would run away and fly apart most of the time... To tell the truth I have yet to see an issue with a Kawasaki other than just normal wear and tear and possibly a starter or other minor issue... Honda quality is the same or possibly a tad better...?

Damn might be the reason I went with a Kawasaki on my new ZTR mower...?

With certain brands in the mix it can be an easier arguement....

However, in general with engines like this you have rpm range, fuel consumption, noise / vibration, etc.

Hence without a real application how can anyone say otherwise...for all we know this guy is looking to just pressure wash a wood fence.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Is it really a Kohler Command and not the Courage?

If it's the Courage, run away....about the same crappy quality as the B&S I/C and/or Intek.

If it's really the Command, it's in the same league as the B&S Vanguard.....both the Command and Vanguard are commercial engines, not the low budget, low end residential quality engines like the Intek, I/C from B&S and the Courage from Kohler.

Your understanding of B&S engine lines is misinformed.

- I/C was the "Industrial/Commercial" line (hence the name). Far from being "low-budget", the I/C line of engines were some of the highest-quality small engines on the market.

- The "Vanguard" name was applied to BOTH commercial and residential models; if the "Vanguard" logo is red, it's residential, if yellow, then commercial. The "Vanguard" name was previously used for the top-tier models in residential lines. When B&S rebranded their residential line recently, they removed the "Vanguard" name from their high-end residential models and used the "Vanguard" name to replace the older "I/C" designation for their commercial engines. Older residential models will have "Vanguard" engines with the residential red and black logo; new commercial "Vanguard" engines will have the commercial yellow and black logo. (Either that, or there was a lot of bleed-over of the Vanguard engines onto residential power equipment before the "I/C" line became the "Vanguard" line, but I'll swear I remember red Vanguard-branded engines floating around before the lines got rebranded.)

- The "Intek" name was applied to mid-range residential engines that were pretty OK for light-duty use.

- The "PowerBuilt" name was applied to entry-level residential engines which tended to be junk.

ZV

 

[Eli]

It kinda seems like Alky is just arguing for the sake of arguing.. I've been around small engines all my life.

98% of all small gasoline engines have a 3600RPM redline. If you meant torque curve or power then fair enough, but again 99% of the time they're very broad and flat with peak torque being the same across the whole useable RPM range. The OP did note the peak power difference between the engines, and we still recommended the Kohler over the Briggs. Fuel consumption is a good one, but overall durability easily trumps it. Same with noise and vibration.

Within the confines of your specific application, a better engine is a better engine and the application doesn't matter. IE: It doesn't matter how robust a certain 10HP engine is if you need at least 14HP.

The concept isn't really that difficult to understand. We're not talking about cars and their engines with their myriad of variables and performance points. In the world of small engines, the engine that will last the longest is king. Most small engines are actually considered "stationary" engines, even though the devices they power may not be all that stationary. They're all designed to be run at more or less a constant RPM when doing work. So whichever engine will last the longest is the one best suited for the task.

 

[Bartman39]

there is a lot to what is the best engine for an application. You saying the above is really ignorant to the argument....especially without knowing what the application is.

Alky... Honestly what do you mean...? I work in the construction world and see day to day what is in use and what the guys say about it too... From severe duty to a kids gocart everyone wants a Honda or Kawasaki powered unit... Now if your meaning the China knockoffs then they are just copy that is below just about anything...

Give me more specific apps and we can go from there...

Oh and BTW about a year ago I bought a 13HP Honda pressure washer for the company I used to work for... 4000psi @4.0gpm it would kick @zz (cut paint off a truck and cut hyd hoses if not careful) There are pressure washers from 5hp to 30hp+ and up...(all about gallons per min and what pressure of delivery)

 

[Evadman]

realistically, if you change the oil either of those engines will long outlive the rest of the mower. Buy whichever one has thicker steel in the frame and deck.

This man speaks the truth. Both B&S and Kohler are good engines, and are unlikely to ever give you a problem if you perform the maintenance on them. Skimp on the maintenance, and you will kill either one of them.

 

[Eli]

Oh and BTW about a year ago I bought a 13HP Honda pressure washer for the company I used to work for... 4000psi @4.0gpm it would kick @zz (cut paint off a truck and cut hyd hoses if not careful) There are pressure washers from 5hp to 30hp+ and up...(all about gallons per min and what pressure of delivery)

Yeah, I kinda figured.. But the OP did mention "Craftsman", so I figured it was residential duty stuff.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I really like the older Kohler Command Pro motors. Just sold an 11 year old machine, with probably 3-4000 hours, and the motor (Pro 13HP) still started first pull, ran strong, quiet, and all that good stuff.

Most new things lately have come with Kawasaki twins, which are maybe a little quieter and likely more fuel efficient, but I haven't got one over 4 years old / 1200 hours, so I can't comment on real long-term reliability.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Is it really a Kohler Command and not the Courage?

If it's the Courage, run away....about the same crappy quality as the B&S I/C and/or Intek.

If it's really the Command, it's in the same league as the B&S Vanguard.....both the Command and Vanguard are commercial engines, not the low budget, low end residential quality engines like the Intek, I/C from B&S and the Courage from Kohler.

Bah, I have the Courage (XT-6) on my Ariens average-cheapie push mower that you can buy at any home depot. I'm not going to claim it's great, but it's worked fine for the last couple of years. It over-revs a bit, and it almost never starts on the first pull (but always on the 2nd, always - even after the winter). I think that latter problem has to do with how short the pull is. Probably the shortest I've ever seen.

Anyway, I had to mow through some pretty significant growth that was wet/clumpy last weekend, and it only stalled once, in the very thickest patch. My old B&S mower would have died a hundred deaths in that mess. It's decent for a low end residential mower. It is a little thirsty, though I also like the oversized gas cap and tank that's easy to fill and to see if full.

 

[revvbasher]

It kinda seems like Alky is just arguing for the sake of arguing.. I've been around small engines all my life.

98% of all small gasoline engines have a 3600RPM redline. If you meant torque curve or power then fair enough, but again 99% of the time they're very broad and flat with peak torque being the same across the whole useable RPM range. The OP did note the peak power difference between the engines, and we still recommended the Kohler over the Briggs. Fuel consumption is a good one, but overall durability easily trumps it. Same with noise and vibration.

Within the confines of your specific application, a better engine is a better engine and the application doesn't matter. IE: It doesn't matter how robust a certain 10HP engine is if you need at least 14HP.

The concept isn't really that difficult to understand. We're not talking about cars and their engines with their myriad of variables and performance points. In the world of small engines, the engine that will last the longest is king. Most small engines are actually considered "stationary" engines, even though the devices they power may not be all that stationary. They're all designed to be run at more or less a constant RPM when doing work. So whichever engine will last the longest is the one best suited for the task.

I'm sorry to say this Eli but your dead wrong about briggs and stratton engines redlining at 3600 rpm. The reason why is because once i overrevved a 17.5 hp lawntractor by basically while the lawn tractor is at FAST position which it runs at 3600 RPM i was able to go to the throttle linkage by the motor and really run it a full throttle which i know was past 3600 RPM because is sure did get loud quick.

I see you started a new thread about this but will say you need to let the dead stay dead and in peace... (necro thread)

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Bartman39