Brian & Anand Hate SD Card's in Phones

[lopri]

I'd rather reviewers just review what's there and leave it up to the reader to decide if that's a negative or not.
It's got so I just skim reviews just looking for any glaring problems and then just look at the specs.

The trend is the opposite way. Reviews have become more and more opinionated, and naked discussions on corporate "margins," "profits," "market shares," etc., are a common sight these days.

 

[s44]

I'm not trying to question if you should or shouldn't demand an SD card slot on your phones, that's your business. What I want to know is why you all feel the need to bring your entire music collection around with you on a daily basis, and why you have entire movies on your phones? I want to sympathize with you guys but I just don't understand your motivations or usage models.

I have unlimited LTE... but *lot* of my phone use is on the subway. Brian lives in AZ, Anand in (I think) NC. No underground commutes.

I think that's another reason Google has moved away from SD cards. "Confusion" aside, too many people were buying absolutely shoddy cards and wondering why their entire phone's performance was going down the drain.

At this point, I'm pretty sure Google just doesn't want to pay Microsoft the exFAT license.

 

[mnewsham]

I have unlimited LTE... but *lot* of my phone use is on the subway. Brian lives in AZ, Anand in (I think) NC. No underground commutes.

In washignton DC Verizon has cell coverage in subway tunnels, but I know most cities don't so I can see that being an issue for plenty of people.

 

[WelshBloke]

At this point, I'm pretty sure Google just doesn't want to pay Microsoft the exFAT license.

Can't they just use an ext file system and leave it up to OEMs to license fat/exFAT if they want?

 

[Aikouka]

There's a response to this thread on Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7543/...e-storage-removable-batteries-and-smartphones

EDIT:

Well that twitter thread seems heavy on circle jerkery and light on discussion.
I don't use twitter, is it normally like that?

It really depends. It can be rather difficult to put out a good comment in 140 characters (including any usernames), but I've had a few discussions on it with various folk. However, it is good to keep in mind that typically you "follow" someone if you tend to agree with them... or if they're a chick with a lot of hot pics. :$

 

[mnewsham]

There's a response to this thread on Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7543/...e-storage-removable-batteries-and-smartphones

well you can't say they aren't quick to respond...

 

[s44]

The bulk of the market seems to prefer the former

There's nothing inherently wrong with the use of microSD as an external storage option, but by and large that ship has sailed

I love how they seem to have come to this conclusion by counting manufacturers rather than devices.

 

[ControlD]

Dustin's comment on the article is right on the money.

 

[ControlD]

What is this "operator revolution" Anand is speaking of? If anything it seems like we are seeing just the opposite, at least in the US market. The big players have consolidated their positions quite well and are now exercising those positions to the fullest.

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't really get this bit either

Google's official stance on this appears to be that multiple storage volumes that are user managed is confusing to the end user.[\QUOTE]

You don't actually need to see the file system to save your photos and videos at all. And you don't need to dick around with it for music and film rips either. Just dump them into your media folder on your card and the Android media scanner will do its thing.

 

[dawheat]

I love how they seem to have come to this conclusion by counting manufacturers rather than devices.

I know - would it be incorrect to say most brand name Android phones (also including the first 5 no name Chinese OEMs) sold today have a microSD slot? I'd imagine Samsung alone tilts raw numbers in their favor.

 

[mnewsham]

I know - would it be incorrect to say most brand name Android phones (also including the first 5 no name Chinese OEMs) sold today have a microSD slot? I'd imagine Samsung alone tilts raw numbers in their favor.

most phones sold probably have SD cards, however most higher end phones these days do not(save samsung), since these guys spend 90% of their time testing and playing with high end flagship devices it seems to be a continuing trend for that segment.

 

[WelshBloke]

most phones sold probably have SD cards, however most higher end phones these days do not(save samsung), since these guys spend 90% of their time testing and playing with high end flagship devices it seems to be a continuing trend for that segment.

You can't really say most high end phones except for samsungs, Samsung high end phones probably make up about 80% of that market (number pulled from my ass).

Just counting it by the amount of different handset is a strange way of looking at market trends.

 

[mnewsham]

You can't really say most high end phones except for samsungs, Samsung high end phones probably make up about 80% of that market (number pulled from my ass).

Just counting it by the amount of different handset is a strange way of looking at market trends.

I think it's perfectly fair to exclude the one company that puts SD cards in all it's phones for a discussion about SD cards in android phones across ALL OEMs, and just because samsung has the majority of the market does NOT mean the majority of the market desires removable batteries and SD card slots, hell most of the people I know who own the Galaxy S3 or S4 don't even know they have an SD card slot, they just know it has memory, and fits songs.

 

[lopri]

I've just read the apologetic post co-authored by Anand and Brian, and thought it's too rich. Especially,

I'm personally more interested in seeing the price of internal storage decrease, and the performance increase. We stand to gain a lot more from advocating that manufacturers move to higher capacities at lower price points and to start taking random IO performance more seriously.

Over the years, they have praised higher quality displays, faster SOCs, battery life, tight build quality, lighter weight, etc. - usually timed with their favorite OEMs making such improvements. Yet years on, I do not remember them criticizing and raising awareness on ONE THING that differentiates prices thus actually matters to consumers' wallets - storage sizes.

In the latest iPad review, they wrote:

An interesting side effect of Apple’s pricing structure is that the cost for NAND upgrades actually gets pretty reasonable at the higher capacities. It’s the lower capacities that are the most expensive to upgrade (e.g. moving from 16GB to 32GB will cost you $6.25 per extra GB of storage, downright enterprise NAND pricing, but going from 64GB to 128GB costs you another $1.56 per extra GB).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7460/apple-ipad-air-review

This is probably meant to be a comedy. Problem is that it isn't funny. It's like telling a rape victim that surgery costs money now but if she carries to term she can give away the newborn for free.

 

[WelshBloke]

I think it's perfectly fair to exclude the one company that puts SD cards in all it's phones for a discussion about SD cards in android phones across ALL OEMs,

Eh? You can't just throw out the biggest market leader just because it doesn't agree with your point. If your trying to look at the market trends you need to look at the whole market.
How about I say that we ignore all the phone's without sdcards? That would be equally as silly (but probably more accurate when looking at the numbers).

and just because samsung has the majority of the market does NOT mean the majority of the market desires removable batteries and SD card slots, hell most of the people I know who own the Galaxy S3 or S4 don't even know they have an SD card slot, they just know it has memory, and fits songs.

It certainly shows that people aren't put off by having that option there.

 

[Trombe]

One and done with phones without a removable battery here (no pun intended). Barely over 1.5 years of ownership and now my One S can't even manage 2 hours of screen time on HSPA+. That's pathetic. No portable battery pack is going to fix that unless I'm insane enough to tether a cable into my pocket while having to deal with excess heat from the battery pack against my thigh.

Might be the same with phones without microSD from now on too. The way HTC partitioned this phone they left like 2.3GB for apps and 9.1GB for storage. Come on...really? I can't even install all my games from Humble Bundle purchases alone with that pitiful app space.

As it stands for me, swappable batteries and microSD cards are far too cost effective to go without until the entire industry changes. I just went and bought a used Optimus G Pro for like $250 and from the looks of it I think I'll be content to keep it for a good long while, most likely until T-Mobile gets some low frequency spectrum and 20nm if not 14nm SOCs become standard.

 

[thedosbox]

This is probably meant to be a comedy. Problem is that it isn't funny. It's like telling a rape victim that surgery costs money now but if she carries to term she can give away the newborn for free.

I've got no particular objection for/against SD cards, but using rape as an analogy in a debate about consumer electronics?

Really? That doesn't strike you as particularly offensive?

 

[WelshBloke]

I've got no particular objection for/against SD cards, but using rape as an analogy in a debate about consumer electronics?

Really? That doesn't strike you as particularly offensive?

I'd agree with you there. It is slightly bizarre that the issue is quite so heated.
Personally I don't see sdcards going away when the biggest android OEM (by far) includes them. It's a shame that I can't broaden my choices of manufacturer but Samsung are making damn fine phones ATM so it's no skin of my nose.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Part of me has wondered that if the primary reason we see a MicroSD slot on Samsung devices is because they sell MicroSD cards.

 

[blairharrington]

I just read their reply. I'm shocked my simple thread led to this. I want to thank them both for taking the time to write something.

At the same time I find the post to be in stark contrast to their words on the podcast episode I initially heard. In said podcast they were essentially laughing at the very concept of SD cards in phones. I found it really dismissive and puzzling.

Brian was also having an exchange on Twitter about this thread and was being dismissive about people wanting to carry around media on their low storage devices. I'm writing this now on an iPad or else I'd copy and paste the exchange. You can go look for yourself. For some reason I think Brian still thinks SD cards are laughable. But I'm just speculating on that front.

My takeaway from the write up was that base storage increases helps lessen the need for an SD card (agreed) and, well, the ship has already sailed on the topic. It's only a matter of time until few to no OEM's offer SD slots.

My feelings regarding SD cards in phones hasn't changed. Unless we see base models offering 32 GB and up across the board then things remain the same regarding the value of SD cards. Let's also not forget that SD cards will always be the easiest route for swapping media between your old and new phone and for shooting a ton of video and photos without needing to store them in the cloud or concern yourself with internal storage space.

 

[WelshBloke]

Part of me has wondered that if the primary reason we see a MicroSD slot on Samsung devices is because they sell MicroSD cards.

They also make the nand for the built in storage so they probably make more out of that.

...

It's an interesting topic but I think that you're making it too much of the personalities involved rather than the issues.
I don't really care if someone's going to be sarkey about my phone choice, I'm going to decide on the things that matter to me not looking for validation from a stranger on the internet.

I will say that I think reviewers on the internet have been less than helpful to OEMs like HTC by encouraging them to do what the reviewers want at the expense of what sells.

 

[blairharrington]

They also make the nand for the built in storage so they probably make more out of that.







It's an interesting topic but I think that you're making it too much of the personalities involved rather than the issues.
I don't really care if someone's going to be sarkey about my phone choice, I'm going to decide on the things that matter to me not looking for validation from a stranger on the internet.

I will say that I think reviewers on the internet have been less than helpful to OEMs like HTC by encouraging them to do what the reviewers want at the expense of what sells.

I'm sure as hell not looking for validation from anybody. I just found their attitude and feelings to the topic to be completely baffling on the podcast. I think this thread shows I'm not the only one who feels this way. I also find all this post initial thread action to be interesting.

I wish more professional reviews had been critical of the One. Droid-Life seemed to have the only review that presented what I deemed to be the issues with the phone. The One Max has an SD card slot and a power/wake button on the right edge. Perhaps the M8 will follow suit. But let's not discuss the One here.

 

[Zodiark1593]

There's been 8GB phones released without SDcards as well.
I really think that it is more of a push for the cloud than a money saving thing.

Could carriers be paying money to manufacturers to geature less internal storage so as to encourage the user to use their data for cloud storage. inb4conspiracytheory

Another use for my MicroSD cards, Playstation 1 ROMS, Doesn't need fast storage (compared to the original CDs, MicroSD is plenty fast), but eats up a ton of storage. My smartphone basically acts as my sub-computer when I can't bring my laptop, so my usage benefits greatly from a MicroSD slot.

What I would really love to see though is a flash drive or memory card that can be used on the phone, and any PC out there without any sort of secondary adapters. Since my own phone runs Gingerbread, I can still directly access all it's contents via Mass Storage, making my phone suitable as a flash drive, but as I learned the hard way, this is not so with a lot of later phones (and is the reason data recovery is a PITA on internal storage of such phones )

 

[blairharrington]

I should clarify that the podcasts episode I was referring to in my initial post is not the One Max episode but something prior. I could track down exactly what I'm referencing tomorrow. I just noticed Brian mistakenly thought it was the One Max podcast via a recent message he posted on Reddit.