brelo verdict being announced now (not guilty)

[brianmanahan]

video on WKYC: http://www.wkyc.com/videos/news/local/2013/11/05/3311833/?ft

 

[brianmanahan]

just found not guilty on all accounts of manslaughter and felonious assault. said that under the definition of the law, brelo's use of force was reasonable. and that it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt that his shots killed either russell or williams.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm not familiar with this case OP, and you've given zero details besides a link to a verdict.

1: Who is Cleveland Police Officer Michael Brelo?
2: Brelo Verdict: Core issues to be considered

So... there's a police chase that ends with police shooting two people to death.

• Why did police start shooting?
  

  Despite the fact that he was surrounded by police, he drove across a traffic island a few feet from police Officer Diaz, and then continued down the driveway until he crashed into the back of zone car 238 and a few feet from Officer Brelo's car.
  
  Police experts said that Russell had used his car as a deadly weapon which then allowed the officers to respond with deadly force because they could reasonably state they were in fear for their lives or the lives of their fellow officers.

 

[brianmanahan]

here is the description from the wiki:

An officer witnessed a vehicle drive by at a high rate of speed and reported that a gun was shot in his direction. That officer began pursuit and called for backup. Multiple officers in at least 30 patrol cars pursued a vehicle driven by Russell, and in which Williams was a passenger. After 22 miles of fleeing, their vehicle was blocked in the rear of a school. Russell then rammed a patrol car and drove towards an officer on foot. At that point 13 officers fired 137 rounds striking Russell 23 times and Williams 24 times. No gun was recovered from the vehicle. A minister who knew Russell later reported that Russell's car had a history of frequent backfires. On May 30, 2014, officer Michael Brelo was indicted on two counts of manslaughter in connection with the shooting. Five police supervisors were also indicted for dereliction of duty.

 

[brianmanahan]

aside from the death, the issue with brelo is that he jumped on the hood of the car after it had been stopped and started shooting down through the windshield.

 

[mizzou]

Plenty worse things in the world to be outraged about than two guys who ran from the cops being killed after they tried to kill police with their car.

I'm sure jumping on the hood of a car is kind of outrageous and a little GTA/COD like however.

 

[Jaskalas]

aside from the death, the issue with brelo is that he jumped on the hood of the car after it had been stopped and started shooting down through the windshield.

Brelo Verdict: Core issues to be considered

But forensic pathologist Dr. Susan Roe, M.D., said that the prosecution claim was not accurate. She told the court that she has performed more than 6,000 autopsies and testified to Judge O'Donnell that "it is my opinion that the occupants of the Chevy Malibu, Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams, were already deceased when fired upon by Officer Brelo."

It's their legal right to shoot to kill, but this guy got overzealous with it. Does it make sense to prosecute? Quote: In all, 13 police officers fired 137 shots. Did those last 30+ shots make a difference after they were already turned into swiss cheese by the first 100 shots?

Is what he did wrong?

 

[cabri]

And again, the Feds are jumping into the issue now that the situation has not gone the politically desired way.

 

[Jaskalas]

If they pursue Brelo then the Feds would be purposefully violating double jeopardy.

 

[cabri]

Just like other incidents, they find something other than the actual crimminal charges to use.

Civil rights is a good excuse

 

[Brainonska511]

If they pursue Brelo then the Feds would be purposefully violating double jeopardy.

And how does the Federal government bringing charges for violating civil rights mean violating double jeopardy with respect to state manslaughter charges that the man was acquitted of?

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Man, 137 rounds fired? Are cops that scared they just hose down people now?

And this cop did a Rambo and jumped up on the car to shoot 15 more times?

And of course they are all innocent. I wonder why most people don't trust cops now....cops are so afraid of everyone, they can kill anyone they want and just claim "fear of their lives, and DA's and judges let them off".

2nd Amendment allows us to have firearms. Therefore everyone a cop deals with might have a firearm, thus cops are always in fear of their lives and can kill anyone they want without repercussions.

Must be nice to be a cop and be allowed to kill people and get away with it.

 

[Darwin333]

aside from the death, the issue with brelo is that he jumped on the hood of the car after it had been stopped and started shooting down through the windshield.

Now that is kind of fucked up. It's kinda hard to argue that you feared for your life because he was using his vehicle as a deadly weapon when you jump on the hood of said vehicle being used as a deadly weapon.

 

[Jaskalas]

And how does the Federal government bringing charges for violating civil rights mean violating double jeopardy with respect to state manslaughter charges that the man was acquitted of?

Make up a bunch of charges are various levels of government and if the first one doesn't give you the results you want then just throw on additional charges until something sticks. It might be standard practice but it's railroading people in the "justice" system.

 

[Jaskalas]

Now that is kind of fucked up. It's kinda hard to argue that you feared for your life because he was using his vehicle as a deadly weapon when you jump on the hood of said vehicle being used as a deadly weapon.

The 13 officers who opened fire had already turned them to swiss cheese with the first 100+ rounds. His overzealous move may have been unprofessional, but it wasn't criminal.

 

[waggy]

Now that is kind of fucked up. It's kinda hard to argue that you feared for your life because he was using his vehicle as a deadly weapon when you jump on the hood of said vehicle being used as a deadly weapon.

I agree. not sure though that the verdict is wrong. Is it murder to shot someone again after they are dead? with 100+ bullets fired before he jumped on the hood it's hard to say he fired the killing shot.

I will say though i do not think he should be a police officer anymore.

 

[Darwin333]

The 13 officers who opened fire had already turned them to swiss cheese with the first 100+ rounds. His overzealous move may have been unprofessional, but it wasn't criminal.

Doesn't intent have something to do with it as well? He obviously didn't know they were dead at the time. Granted I'm not sure a murder rap fits if it's been proven, and evidently it has, that he didn't actually kill them. Maybe a conspiracy charge would have been more fitting.

Oddly, at least to me, it seems that all of the recent cases have been trials by judge and not jury trials. Any armchair lawyers, or perhaps a real one, have any insight into why that seems to be the trend or if there even is a trend at all?

 

[Darwin333]

I agree. not sure though that the verdict is wrong. Is it murder to shot someone again after they are dead? with 100+ bullets fired before he jumped on the hood it's hard to say he fired the killing shot.

I will say though i do not think he should be a police officer anymore.

The real question should be "is it a crime to shoot someone that you don't know is dead".

If he knew they were dead then it's at least mutilation of a corpse, illegal discharge of a weapon, public endangerment, etc... Frankly I don't see how half of the above charges don't apply either way. The absurd amount of rounds fired can at least be explained by "contagious fire" but I don't think anyone can rationally believe that caused his actions though.

 

[Genx87]

And how does the Federal government bringing charges for violating civil rights mean violating double jeopardy with respect to state manslaughter charges that the man was acquitted of?

It doesn't. That is how some of those goons that beat Rodney King got put away.

 

[Brainonska511]

It doesn't. That is how some of those goons that beat Rodney King got put away.

I know. I wanted to see what his reasoning was.

It's also how they put away some of the KKK clowns back in the day, when state juries would let klan members get away with murder.

 

[AHamick]

Is there video of the incident? 100+ shots can be easy if 13 officers are shooting at a car being driven at them or another. You shoot to stop the threat. Of that threat is a moving car you shoot until it is no longer moving at you, another or at all. If the first shot struck the driver in the head killing him instantly the car will still be moving and more incoming fire can be expected

Did Brelo end up on the hood as a reaction to being almost run over?

 

[Subyman]

Lucky no officers or civilians were killed while the cops rage-dumped their guns into the corpses.

 

[Brovane]

Man, 137 rounds fired? Are cops that scared they just hose down people now?

The LAPD managed to fire 100+ rounds at two ladies that their only crime was delivering the LA Times in a pickup truck. 😉

 

[Jaskalas]

Doesn't intent have something to do with it as well? He obviously didn't know they were dead at the time. Granted I'm not sure a murder rap fits if it's been proven, and evidently it has, that he didn't actually kill them. Maybe a conspiracy charge would have been more fitting.

Well.. a miracle _could_ have happened and they _may_ have still been alive at the time he went rambo on them... but he had already been given license to kill them, at what point did that shooting not become just as legal as the other 12 officers involved?

"They were dead and no longer a threat"
Right... so he could do no further harm...
"They might have been injured, but still alive"
Right... so they could have still used their "deadly weapon" vehicle...
​

All we can do is circle the drain of "what ifs... The real crux of it, to me, is that officers are given license to kill literally anyone inside a vehicle. I've got a problem with that when all folks want to do is flee for their lives... but if we're going to approve the other 12 officers and opening fire in the first place, I'm having difficulty condemning the last 30 or so shots fired.

 

[mizzou]

Proof beyomd a reasonable doubt is a
beautiful qnd altogether terrifying concept. I wish people took more time to really understand what that means amd how often we let people run scot free whom we are "pretty damn sure" committed a crime.