BREAKING: Parts of healthcare law ruled unconstitutional

[ElFenix]

the same way they make you buy auto insurance.

the states aren't necessarily limited by the US constitution. see 10th amendment.

...and hospitals can hang big signs on their doors that say no insurance, no bother coming in.

You can be as unhealthy as you want driving off those public roads without insurance. Get hurt and have to use a public road to come to a hospital, you'd better have insurance, both auto and health.

Are you opponents of health care OK with no longer mandating hospitals care for people who have no insurance?

EMTALA isn't a mandate, it's optional. practically every hospital has opted for it as there's a big stick attached (no medicare funding if you don't accept EMTALA). but it's still optional.

 

[feralkid]

Are you opponents of health care OK with no longer mandating hospitals care for people who have no insurance?

Absolutely! Each and every one of them from here to eternity or until their own insurance runs out, whichever comes first.

 

[spidey07]

Don't think in the present. Think ahead. It's one of the precursors to success.

Yep, as written in the judges decision if mandate is actually upheld then it allows the federal government to essentially dictate every single aspect of a citizens life. It's a very scary world if the mandate isn't stricken down.

If the federal government actually wins and says economic inaction falls under the commerce clause and that damn Wikard v. Filburn case this nation is lost.

 

[theeedude]

Good article in WP today that summarizes how I feel about individual mandate:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/13/AR2010121306759.html

The individual mandate was created by conservatives who realized that it was the only way to get universal coverage into the private market. Otherwise, insurers turn away the sick, public anger rises, and, eventually, you get some kind of government-run, single-payer system, much as they did in Europe, and much as we have with Medicare.

If Republicans succeed in taking it off the table, they may sign the death warrant for private insurers in America: Eventually, rising cost pressures will force more aggressive reforms than even Obama has proposed, and if conservative judges have made the private market unfixable by removing the most effective way to deal with adverse selection problems, the only alternative will be the very constitutional, but decidedly non-conservative, single-payer path.

So yeah, go ahead and get individual mandate ruled unconstitutional

 

[sactoking]

Repealing the pre-existing condition mandate won't happen in a vacuum. In other words, Congress will never just get the pre-existing condition mandate pulled off the table.

However, if the individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional that makes the pre-existing mandate especially heinous. In that regard there are only 3 choices:
1) Re-institute an individual mandate in a legal fashion
2) Repeal the pre-existing condition mandate
3) Do nothing and let the system implode

#1 or #2 will occur well before #3. I don't care whether you're liberal or conservative going down the path to #3 is not what you want. A complete and utter system implosion will be catastrophic for the population, hospitals, doctors, the population...

 

[bfdd]

Good article in WP today that summarizes how I feel about individual mandate:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/13/AR2010121306759.html



So yeah, go ahead and get individual mandate ruled unconstitutional

Yes because all of us who want this overturned are conservative republicans.

 

[theeedude]

Repealing the pre-existing condition mandate won't happen in a vacuum. In other words, Congress will never just get the pre-existing condition mandate pulled off the table.

However, if the individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional that makes the pre-existing mandate especially heinous. In that regard there are only 3 choices:
1) Re-institute an individual mandate in a legal fashion
2) Repeal the pre-existing condition mandate
3) Do nothing and let the system implode

#1 or #2 will occur well before #3. I don't care whether you're liberal or conservative going down the path to #3 is not what you want. A complete and utter system implosion will be catastrophic for the population, hospitals, doctors, the population...

Reps will block #1
Dems will block #2
If individual mandate is ruled unconstitutional, say hello to #3, followed by reform 2.0, where individual mandate won't be on the table, and thus only single payer solutions will be viable.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

thus only single payer solutions will be viable.

Only in your dreams

 

[feralkid]

Only in your dreams

Incisive analysis!

 

[charrison]

...and hospitals can hang big signs on their doors that say no insurance, no bother coming in.

You can be as unhealthy as you want driving off those public roads without insurance. Get hurt and have to use a public road to come to a hospital, you'd better have insurance, both auto and health.

Are you opponents of health care OK with no longer mandating hospitals care for people who have no insurance?

The only problem I have with hospitals treating those without insurance is the moral hazard it creates. Why should anyone carry even inexpensive catastrophic coverage, if they know they will be cared for.

 

[mooseracing]

Why should anyone carry even inexpensive catastrophic coverage, if they know they will be cared for.

It is the same type of problem with car insurance. Why carry anything if you are paying for PLPD. We all are going to get screwed either way if you are in an accident with major damage.

 

[Fern]

Well there is no severability clause in the bill, so that seems up for debate.

Yeah, and I'm hearing the judge in the current case down in FL is supposed to rule specifically on that. If (s)he rules the opposite of this other judge, I suppose that's something else the SCOTUS will have to take up when they eventually get to it.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

SCOTUS is going to settle this one way or another.
If it's a partisan 5:4 decision, GOP will own the healthcare mess, and individual mandate will be permanently off the table as a solution. I guess it's theoretically possible they'll come up with a working private sector solution not involving individual mandate, but the odds are not in their favor. If you look at healthcare systems around the world, they are split into government funded ones, private sector ones with individual mandate, or some mix of the above.

 

[manimal]

well to play devils advocate why not just allow people to just opt out all together....so if they get sick they get turned away at hospitals.....if they crash their car they are left to die...


will remove a fair bit of the expense of Emergency Rooms...


the rest of us can have single payer....


lets call it medicare...

 

[bfdd]

well to play devils advocate why not just allow people to just opt out all together....so if they get sick they get turned away at hospitals.....if they crash their car they are left to die...


will remove a fair bit of the expense of Emergency Rooms...


the rest of us can have single payer....


lets call it medicare...

by opt out you mean not have to pay taxes for it right? like completely opt out?

 

[manimal]

by opt out you mean not have to pay taxes for it right? like completely opt out?

yup call it your personal saving account. Do what you want with it like invest in the stock market or blow it all on hookers...

 

[rockyct]

by opt out you mean not have to pay taxes for it right? like completely opt out?

No, like the parents who opt out of sending their kids to the public school down the street.

 

[bfdd]

No, like the parents who opt out of sending their kids to the public school down the street.

yup call it your personal saving account. Do what you want with it like invest in the stock market or blow it all on hookers...

So which is it?

 

[manimal]

So which is it?

let the people decide!!!


via who gets the most people at rally...

 

[Bird222]

The door will be opened for complete control of the people by their masters. The Road to Serfdom will not be just a book. We'll be living it.

Don't you think with the current concentration of wealth trend we are already on that road?