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Breaking News--IRAN arrests Al Queda, terrorists!

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<< Remember that Iraq hated Iran but after the Perisan gulf war, instead of giving up their planes to the allies, they flew them over to Iranian airfields and gave the keys to their air force? >>



Who flew what where?



<< Remember that? >>



If you mean that did Iran hand over Iraq airplanes to allied... Were they required to?



<< There's a saying in the Middle East that goes like this: "Me against my brother. Me and my brothers against my cousin. Me, my brothers, and my cousins against everybody." >>



This isn't Iran vs. USA, it's Iran vs. Taleban. After the Taleban executed some iranian diplomats, things almost turned in to war. Iran hates the Taleban, I fail to see how they could work with them under any circumstances.
 
Coincidence or not, this is a great development. The Iran today is not the Iran of the 80's. Bush was kind of off his rocker when he made the "axis of evil" comment. Hopefully now he will see otherwise. I'm not trying to criticize Bush either btw.

Regardless of whether Bush's comment incited this action, what we need now is for Bush and Colin Powell to see what other arangements can be made with Iran for removing terrorists from their nation. This could be progress in the relationship between us and Iran, as well as progress against terrorism.
 


<<

<< << That would certainly explain why Iranian Special Forces are in western Afghanistan stirring up trouble. >>
Link?
>>



It's in the most recent issue of Time. Here's the first paragraph:

February 04, 2002

Tehran's Game


Iranian meddling in neighboring Afghanistan raises new concerns about an old troublemaker
BY ROMESH RATNESAR
>>



I stand corrected 🙂. Thanks for the info.
 


<< Who flew what where? >>


Nemesis77- how old are you, I'm just curious. The Iraquis, instead of letting their planes stay on the ground to be destroyed, flew them to Iran and basically just turned them over to the Iranians. I don't ever remember hearing what happened t them since.
 
There is an internal debate being waged in Washington: the Powell's vs the Rumsfeld's. Bush, for the time being, has sided with the Rumsfeld's, as evidenced by his famous "axis of evil" speech in which he linked Iran with Iraq. Powell was incensed, and most Europeans shocked.

The US stance on coalitions has shifted: The core U.S. position is that anyone supporting al Qaeda in any way is our enemy, and if the allies won't join us, we'll do it ourselves. The coalition's position is that the degree of support is of considerable importance, fighting al Qaeda is only one of the goals, and if you plan to fight anyone who helps al Qaeda, you can do it alone.

Thus the "axis of evil" speech. Washington is making gestures that it is willing and capable to go at it alone. Iran, finding itself with suddenly less room to maneuver, is going to try to get on Washington's good side, and hopefully push more focus on Iraq. If so, these Iranian arrests may be the first of more to come.

Pentbomb
 


<< Regardless of whether Bush's comment incited this action, what we need now is for Bush and Colin Powell to see what other arangements can be made with Iran for removing terrorists from their nation. This could be progress in the relationship between us and Iran, as well as progress against terrorism. >>



EXACTLY!
 


<<

<< Who flew what where? >>


Nemesis77- how old are you, I'm just curious. The Iraquis, instead of letting their planes stay on the ground to be destroyed, flew them to Iran and basically just turned them over to the Iranians. I don't ever remember hearing what happened t them since.
>>



I know all about that. And that is wrong... Why? Iran wasn't at war with Iraq. After those planes landed they were confiscated by Iran.

Reason I asked my question was because... Well, you made it sound like that Iraq was required to give up their planes to Allied (coalition they were at war with). Well, they had no such obligation. Instead, they flew their planes to Iran, who then confiscated those planes. I see no problem there. Iran did what they had to do, they confiscated the planes.

that's Why I was confused by your post. You said that Iraq flew their planes to Iran after the war. They did not, those planes flew there during the war.

Same thing happened in WW2. German cruiser Schanhorst (or was it Gneisenau? I always mix those two up) faced superior enemy. They had two choices: either go to Argentina, and be internated for the duration of the war, or face the enemy and be destroyed. They chose to face the enemy. Iraqis did not.
 
Dave,

Iran said thank you very much for these modern russian fighters and promptly locked them up somewhere.

Like busmaster said, I don't believe in coincidences. These arrests are the direct result of being called an axis of evil. Not a single arrest until after the speech, then within a week or two 150 people go down? Coincidence? I think not. Iran saw what we did to Iraq, they saw what we did in afgahnistan and they are worried about their own butts.
 


<< I know all about that. And that is wrong... Why? Iran wasn't at war with Iraq. After those planes landed they were confiscated by Iran >>


How exactly am I wrong?

 


<< Coincidence or not, this is a great development. The Iran today is not the Iran of the 80's. Bush was kind of off his rocker when he made the "axis of evil" comment. Hopefully now he will see otherwise. I'm not trying to criticize Bush either btw.

Regardless of whether Bush's comment incited this action, what we need now is for Bush and Colin Powell to see what other arangements can be made with Iran for removing terrorists from their nation. This could be progress in the relationship between us and Iran, as well as progress against terrorism.
>>



Most of us believe that's the reason Bush made his comment. Not to warn of an impending war but rather, to make Iran clean up its act
 


<<

<< I know all about that. And that is wrong... Why? Iran wasn't at war with Iraq. After those planes landed they were confiscated by Iran >>


How exactly am I wrong?
>>



Sorry, my post was rather confusing 😱. What I meant was that why was it wrong when Iran confiscated those Iraqi planes? You made it sound like it proves that Iran is evil, while in fact they did the only thing they could (and should) do.
 
I think they had their own agenda, but I think that Bushes statement may have made them decide to move up their timeline
 


<< I know all about that. And that is wrong... Why? Iran wasn't at war with Iraq. After those planes landed they were confiscated by Iran >>


Well, Iran isn't at war with the Taliban right now either.

That was *more* significant because a few years prior they had been killing each other like there was no tomorrow (for 10 years, no less)
 
<<iran would have made any and all of these arrests with or without the opinion of western interests.>>

Uh huh. Then why did they just now arrest them when they've been in Iran for quite some time? Not like Iran just found out the terrorists were there and arrested them on the spot. We've known for some time that some of the enemy fled to Iran, so obviously the Iranians knew.

 


<< Sorry, my post was rather confusing 😱. What I meant was that why was it wrong when Iran confiscated those Iraqi planes? You made it sound like it proves that Iran is evil, while in fact they did the only thing they could (and should) do. >>


I said no such thing...You said that Iran hated the Taliban so there's no way Iran could be supporting any terrorist stuff in Afghanistan.

I was giving the Iraq-Iran plane example to show that in the Middle East, it is very possible that they would rather help their neighbor screw an outside force rather than fight each other.
 


<<

<< I know all about that. And that is wrong... Why? Iran wasn't at war with Iraq. After those planes landed they were confiscated by Iran >>


Well, Iran isn't at war with the Taliban right now either.

That was *more* significant because a few years prior they had been killing each other like there was no tomorrow (for 10 years, no less)
>>



Yes, and what does that have to do with that? What does international treaties say about killing people who are on their way to surrender? When Iran saw several Mig-29's cross their border during the air-campaign, trying to get away from Allied planes, they propably thought "Excellent! New planes for our air-force, delivered right in to our doorstep!". Why should they shoot them down? They were going to get new planes (and Iraq would lose them)!
 


<< I was giving the Iraq-Iran plane example to show that in the Middle East, it is very possible that they would rather help their neighbor screw an outside force rather than fight each other. >>



How exactly did that help Iraq? They lost their best fighters, while their enemy of many years got several modern fighters for their air-force!

Iran did the right thing and they did the smart thing. Hey, Iraq (or individual pilots) were about give them several Mig-29's, delivered to their doorstep, who are they to say "no" 😉?
 


<< There is an internal debate being waged in Washington: the Powell's vs the Rumsfeld's. Bush, for the time being, has sided with the Rumsfeld's, as evidenced by his famous "axis of evil" speech in which he linked Iran with Iraq. Powell was incensed, and most Europeans shocked. >>



I don't believe this for a minute. General Powell, better than anyone in this administration, understands the need for a unified chain of command especially in time of war. He would certainly not let any real disagreements become public knowledge. My belief is that this is a well planned manuever designed to let certain countries think they may have a sympathetic ear in Washington, thereby opening channels of communication. The only way you would ever get me to believe Gen. Powell has any real disagreemnts with the President would be the submission of his resignation or his admittance to it after he leaves office.
 


<<

<< Who flew what where? >>


Nemesis77- how old are you, I'm just curious. The Iraquis, instead of letting their planes stay on the ground to be destroyed, flew them to Iran and basically just turned them over to the Iranians. I don't ever remember hearing what happened t them since.
>>



I don't know how old Nemesis77 is but I respect him, and I dont use that word often. 🙂
 


<< General Powell, better than anyone in this administration, understands the need for a unified chain of command especially in time of war. >>


Becoming angry over being publicly repudiated by the president is one thing, distancing oneself from the chain of command is quite another. Powell and those who side with him, understandably, are guilty of only the former.

It may be hard to believe, but disagreements in Washington are the norm, *not* the exception. They always have been and always will be. But once a decision is made, as Bush has made in this instance, everybody leaves past disagreements where they belong: in the past. These are professionals.



<< He would certainly not let any real disagreements become public knowledge >>


Usually they don't until after the fact, if ever. But in this case, refer to Bremer's piece in the special Thanksgiving issue of TNI to see Powell's ideas versus Cheney's/Rumsfeld's.

Extrapolating this piece (along with other public documents and others not-so-public) to the present, I can easily infer the following: That on the one side, there is Secretary of State Colin Powell, who is making the case that the foundation of U.S. strategy must be the creation and sustenance of the largest possible coalition. On the other side are Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Their argument appears to be that the purpose of a coalition is to enable combat operations and that an overly broad coalition will place severe restraints on such operations. Therefore, the United States should narrow the coalition as necessary, up to and including taking entirely unilateral actions, in order to destroy al Qaeda.

Pentbomb
 


<< The mayor of Tehran is small beans and I doubt that you can take (one letter) as a sign that the radicals were not in charge anymore... >>



it was a nice gesture, and it was historic. no one in iran (radicals) tried to stop the letter being sent. that was a good sign. i was sort of like an olive branch. first time in 20 years. i guess you're not impressed.
 


<<

<<

<< Who flew what where? >>


Nemesis77- how old are you, I'm just curious. The Iraquis, instead of letting their planes stay on the ground to be destroyed, flew them to Iran and basically just turned them over to the Iranians. I don't ever remember hearing what happened t them since.
>>



I don't know how old Nemesis77 is but I respect him, and I dont use that word often. 🙂
>>



Thank you Tex. That means alot to me (seriously!). I know we have had our disagreements in the past, but I have always respected you for the fact that you stand by your opinions, even when facing several people who strongly disagree with you (me being quite often one of them *cough*).

as for my age... "77" stands for my birthyear, so I'm 24 🙂.
 
nemesis,

the real point of iraq flying its planes into iran was that just before the gulf war iran and iraq had a bloody and brutal war that lasted about 9 years. they were considered bitter enemies.

but not bitter enough for iraq to trust them with their planes when the us came a bombing.

i think it's that blood is thicker than water thing.

 


<< Thank you Tex. That means alot to me (seriously!). I know we have had our disagreements in the past, but I have always respected you for the fact that you stand by your opinions, even when facing several people who strongly disagree with you (me being quite often one of them *cough*).

as for my age... "77" stands for my birthyear, so I'm 24 🙂.
>>



Thanks for the return 😱. It means the same for me. And we better disagree in the future 😀

1977 huh...My sister was born in 77 *grabs Tazer* Stay away from her! 😀
 
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