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Breaking News: House approves overhaul of U.S. Intelligence

Gusty987

Golden Member
Text

House approves intelligence bill
Senate scheduled to vote on reform bill Wednesday

Tuesday, December 7, 2004 Posted: 7:38 PM EST (0038 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The House of Representatives voted Tuesday to approve the intelligence reorganization bill that had been held in committee for weeks.

The bill is likely to reach the Senate on Wednesday. President Bush has said he will sign it.

The legislation, drawn from recommendations made by a independent commission that reviewed intelligence failures that led up to the September 11, 2001, attacks, would overhaul the U.S. intelligence community. It would put most assets and budgets under the newly created post of national intelligence director. (More details)

The bill stalled November 20 when House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter and House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner persuaded House Speaker Dennis Hastert not to bring it to the House floor for a vote.

Many Democrats and Republicans were angered because they said they had the votes to pass the bill -- without the two congressmen and their supporters.

Hastert, R-Illinois, held back, and House-Senate conferees went to work to find language that would ease Hunter's concerns.

A top House GOP leadership aide predicted Tuesday that 20 to 40 conservatives will vote against the bill. If the number tops 50, it will be "troubling," he said.

Nevertheless, he said, GOP leaders will press ahead on the vote.

"They're not going to turn back at this point," the aide said.

Rep. Zach Wamp, R-Tennessee, said Hastert likely will win a "slim majority of the majority," referring to the speaker's stated goal of gaining the support of most Republicans.

President Bush pushed for the bill in his radio address Saturday and in a letter to Congress on Monday, and Vice President Dick Cheney joined in the weekend talks.

Hunter had said he feared the new bill would give too much power to the national intelligence director, preventing battlefield commanders from having timely access to necessary satellite intelligence.

He gave his support to the measure when new language in the bill directed the president to issue guidelines for the intelligence director "in a manner that respects and does not abrogate the statutory responsibilities of the heads of the departments."

"Those few words help to satisfy concerns that were raised by Congressman Duncan Hunter and the others who were concerned that in some way the bill would lessen the authority of the secretary of defense over battlefield intelligence," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, one of the bill's co-sponsors in the Senate.

"Personally, I believe strongly nothing in the original bill in any way hindered military operations or readiness, but by making this small change, we were able to provide some additional comfort to Congressman Hunter and get him on board."

Speaking at a news conference, Collins said she appreciated the help from the administration.

"The president and the vice president's interventions with House members were absolutely key in moving this bill forward," she said, "and I'm very grateful for the president's strong leadership in this regard."

Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Connecticut, said that the bill honors the memory of those killed in the 9/11 attacks and vastly improves the intelligence system.

"We do substantial work in improving our border security, our transportation security, information sharing, standardized driver's licenses, which will help eliminate fraud from the identification process," Lieberman said.
Immigration questions set for next year

Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, wants provisions in the bill that would deny illegal aliens the right to have a driver's license. He often cites the fact that the 19 hijackers on September 11 had more than 60 licenses between them as a reason for the provision.

"I think the compromise is incomplete," Sensenbrenner said. "But they do have the signatures to bring the bill to the floor, and it will pass.

"I think this is a no-brainer issue. But I lay blame for the fact that this isn't in the bill specifically on Sen. Susan Collins of Maine and Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, who are bound not to have meaningful license reform in this bill."

Rep. David Dreier, R-California, said those provisions would be added to the first "must-pass" bill next year -- likely the Iraq war supplement. The immigration issues also include political asylum changes and completion of a fence on the Mexico-California border.

Dreier said it was unclear as to when the new House would discuss the Iraq bill.
 
There is very likely a need for a central, top-level clearing house for intelligence like the Brits have (the name eludes me).
Hunter had said he feared the new bill would give too much power to the national intelligence director, preventing battlefield commanders from having timely access to necessary satellite intelligence.

He gave his support to the measure when new language in the bill directed the president to issue guidelines for the intelligence director "in a manner that respects and does not abrogate the statutory responsibilities of the heads of the departments."
Sounds like politics rather than common sense to this layman. The various heads of the U.S.'s intelligence departments guard their assets very carefully and think little of every other agency's security. Having this directorship forced on them will probably be a good thing.

As to having a set of checks and balances so that we don't have another Contras affair, let me cut that off right here by saying that's been put in place shortly after the aforementioned scandal. This is strictly an information clearing house dealie.
 
:thumbsdown:

Without strict immigration measures this bill lacks teeth. Yes, I'm sure it is good intentioned legislation but lacks the underlying structure to do much more than be another bill that sounds like it does something(I call it "feel good legislation") instead of actually doing something.

We thank you for taking a stand for Security.

/dons flamesuit.

CsG
 
Un-vacation charrison

Un-BAN UltraQuiet

why were those two banned/vacationed


BTW: I really don't think this legislation does anything meaningful..just as don't think the DOHS does anything meaningful. When something bad happens people feel better when something is done even if that thing is ultimately meaningless.
 
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Un-vacation charrison

Un-BAN UltraQuiet

why were those two banned/vacationed


BTW: I really don't think this legislation does anything meaningful..just as don't think the DOHS does anything meaningful. When something bad happens people feel better when something is done even if that thing is ultimately meaningless.

Any inquiry will have to be via email as discussing these things here can be frowned upon.

****

Exactly - it's "feel good" legislation with no teeth - just more bureaucracy.

CsG
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
WOW, for as much bashing as Bush got for "ignoring" this situation, you guys sure are quiet.

CsG

It's funny, Bush is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. It seems there is no pleasing some people.

But, I don't agree with this bill at all. I do agree with Neal Boortz though,

Basically it does to intelligence gathering what the Department of Homeland Security did for national defense. It would put the budgets and assets of 15 different agencies under a new position of "National Intelligence Director." But how is simply reshuffling the bureaucracy going to really make this country safer? It probably won't. What has to be changed are the laws, and the enforcement of those laws.
 
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
WOW, for as much bashing as Bush got for "ignoring" this situation, you guys sure are quiet.

CsG

It's funny, Bush is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. It seems there is no pleasing some people.

But, I don't agree with this bill at all. I do agree with Neal Boortz though,

Basically it does to intelligence gathering what the Department of Homeland Security did for national defense. It would put the budgets and assets of 15 different agencies under a new position of "National Intelligence Director." But how is simply reshuffling the bureaucracy going to really make this country safer? It probably won't. What has to be changed are the laws, and the enforcement of those laws.

Exactly. Does Boortz have anything more indepth comments about this?

CsG
 
This got rushed so Bush can have this damn open border with Mexico that he so desperatly wants. The border needs to be closed, no amnesty granted and illegals need to be kicked out. Without this, we should not bother with the war on Terror!

 
Thing with kicking out the illegals is that we'd loose a hell of a lot of our low level labor force... I don't like the fact that those illegals took over LA and near every other part of the southwest US but on the same token they're also the US's low level labor force... and honestly what kind of American would take one of their jobs?
 
Originally posted by: DanDaManJC
Thing with kicking out the illegals is that we'd loose a hell of a lot of our low level labor force... I don't like the fact that those illegals took over LA and near every other part of the southwest US but on the same token they're also the US's low level labor force... and honestly what kind of American would take one of their jobs?


How many people do we have sitting in jails just working out? I say get them to do some and also get the people who sit around and collect welfare!
 
Originally posted by: tnitsuj
Un-vacation charrison

Un-BAN UltraQuiet

why were those two banned/vacationed


BTW: I really don't think this legislation does anything meaningful..just as don't think the DOHS does anything meaningful. When something bad happens people feel better when something is done even if that thing is ultimately meaningless.

I've never been a big believer in the power of just reorganizing things, you can shuffle the cards all you like, but in the end they are the same cards. Having a central authority sounds good on paper, but this legislation (I think) fails to bring things together in a useful way. I have this image of the National Intelligence Director just swamped with reams of paper he can't do much with. Of course I'm also a big believer in the lack of power of management. I have worked in a number of situations, and whatever was wrong, more management never seemed to be the answer.

By the way, the Department of Homeland Security is usually called DHS by government people, at least the ones I've heard. Just thought you might like to know 😉
 
Originally posted by: MoFunk
This got rushed so Bush can have this damn open border with Mexico that he so desperatly wants. The border needs to be closed, no amnesty granted and illegals need to be kicked out. Without this, we should not bother with the war on Terror!

How many of the 9/11 hijackers were illegals? I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly certain that number was somewhere close to 0.
 
I heard on the radio today that 44,000 Arabs cross the US Mexico boarder illegally every year, and while the measure that passed today is supposed to increase boarder patrol gaurds by 10,000 over the next five years, according to the same bill, if the illegal alien makes it 30 feet into US territory, there is nothing the boarder gaurd can do!!!


 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: MoFunk
This got rushed so Bush can have this damn open border with Mexico that he so desperatly wants. The border needs to be closed, no amnesty granted and illegals need to be kicked out. Without this, we should not bother with the war on Terror!

How many of the 9/11 hijackers were illegals? I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly certain that number was somewhere close to 0.


I think the majority of them had EXPIRED temporary visas, AND many had MULTIPLE drivers liscenses from MULTIPLE states, and you want to make it EASIER to give drivers lisceses to poeple who ARE NOT citizens?

 
Originally posted by: petrek
I heard on the radio today that 44,000 Arabs cross the US Mexico boarder illegally every year, and while the measure that passed today is supposed to increase boarder patrol gaurds by 10,000 over the next five years, according to the same bill, if the illegal alien makes it 30 feet into US territory, there is nothing the boarder gaurd can do!!!

BINGO
 
How many of the 9/11 hijackers were illegals? I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly certain that number was somewhere close to 0.

Actually I believe they may have been all illegal. They all had multiple identities and multiple state driver licenses with different names. The point of dealing with the immigration issue is we need to clamp down not only on the border. But the ability of people to get valid state and govt issued identification cards. Once that happens they become an entity that rarely brings up red flags.

 
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