Breaking news... Bin Laden offers truce...

[Hayabusa Rider]

I have yet to decide if half the people here are mad, stupid or both.

There are no inferences that can be drawn here, but people seem to forget that the US isn't the only place in the world. Other people are listening.


Maybe he has internet access and is watching all the dumbass comments here. Be a good laugh for him.

 

[phillyTIM]

funny how they won't be raising the national security level, but they did it in an instant back just before election '04.

i guess there just aren't any political gains to be gotten by bush to justify raising the level.

it just shows how interesting it is that bush will politicize events according to his own needs.

 

[MonkeyK]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Pabster
Hilarious watching the usual suspects try and cast this off. Obfuscate, Obfuscate, Obfuscate.

The extreme left might wish us to throw our hands in the air, get out the white flags, and run. Fortunately, they aren't in power.

Obfuscate how? I don't see anyone obfuscating.

What specifically do you think is the significance of this "truce" offer? It seems to me it's essentially the same-old, same-old. UBL is just reminding us he's still alive (assuming it's him on the tape, which is far from clear).

By offering a truce, he is saying "I am the man". While to some degree it is alreay the case, by making this statement he is putting his face to symbolize all current efforts that we are fighting.
Other than that it signifies nothing.

 

[SMOKE20]

Originally posted by: phillyTIM
funny how they won't be raising the national security level, but they did it in an instant back just before election '04.

i guess there just aren't any political gains to be gotten by bush to justify raising the level.

it just shows how interesting it is that bush will politicize events according to his own needs.

First, I assume you are aware of the cost heightened security levels cost cities and towns.

Second, just as was stated back when they tried heightening the levels on new threats......people throw a fit if nothing happens........much like many do if they don't raise it and something does. Catch 22?

I may be biased though too as my sister is employed by H/S branch KC as are a lot of staunch Democrats like her and they find it funny that everything is made a Dem./Rep. thing as the dicision has strong support and backing by both parties.

 

[Lemon law]

A few things to consider--------(1) This tape seems to be made prior to the recent attack in Pakistan
that may have killed some related to Al-Quida. (2) This truce stuff is not new. (3) If it is a warning that an attack in America is coming----its going to be important to see how this is spun--------because the fact that this all offence no defense war on terror planning by Bush is dangerous to national security. (4) If an Al-Quida truce does ever become a reality---what is the military industrial complex going to use to justify continued super high military spending?

 

[AragornTK]

I think perhaps he was a puppet all along and he realizes that his strings have been cut? he tried just laying on the stage for awhile, but nobody bought it, now he realizes the only way out is to let himself be dragged off stage... he will of course, become an incarcerated martyr if he is siezed and that will only fuel the radicals more

 

[SMOKE20]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
A few things to consider--------(1) This tape seems to be made prior to the recent attack in Pakistan
that may have killed some related to Al-Quida. (2) This truce stuff is not new. (3) If it is a warning that an attack in America is coming----its going to be important to see how this is spun--------because the fact that this all offence no defense war on terror planning by Bush is dangerous to national security. (4) If an Al-Quida truce does ever become a reality---what is the military industrial complex going to use to justify continued super high military spending?

The will never be/can never be a "truce" with terrorists by the US government no matter whom is the party in power. Along with Reps., Dems., Kerry, Dean, even Pelosi said in statements following the tape that the US will never negotiate with terrorists. This is nothing new and is not a partisan decsion....it is US policy and also the policy of most other nations.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
A few things to consider--------(1) This tape seems to be made prior to the recent attack in Pakistan
that may have killed some related to Al-Quida. (2) This truce stuff is not new. (3) If it is a warning that an attack in America is coming----its going to be important to see how this is spun--------because the fact that this all offence no defense war on terror planning by Bush is dangerous to national security. (4) If an Al-Quida truce does ever become a reality---what is the military industrial complex going to use to justify continued super high military spending?

And super high military production and earning! We can no longer compete in the consumer prduction areas thanks to outsourceing having given away most of our technilogical assets, but we excell in military and industrial production. OBL may be smart enough ti figure out that if he ceases the demands on our military industrial complex, that he will slow our economy and that will ultimately defeat us. He knows by now that he can't do it in combat. It's divide and conqur (libs make that work!) or defeat the economy. The only way he can defeat the economy is by slowing it down. That is a pretty gigantic streatch, but having read the rest of the thread, falls into the limits observed.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20

Originally posted by: Lemon law
A few things to consider--------(1) This tape seems to be made prior to the recent attack in Pakistan
that may have killed some related to Al-Quida. (2) This truce stuff is not new. (3) If it is a warning that an attack in America is coming----its going to be important to see how this is spun--------because the fact that this all offence no defense war on terror planning by Bush is dangerous to national security. (4) If an Al-Quida truce does ever become a reality---what is the military industrial complex going to use to justify continued super high military spending?

The will never be/can never be a "truce" with terrorists by the US government no matter whom is the party in power. Along with Reps., Dems., Kerry, Dean, even Pelosi said in statements following the tape that the US will never negotiate with terrorists. This is nothing new and is not a partisan decsion....it is US policy and also the policy of most other nations.

Exactly, smoke20------it sure explains the Reagan administration negotiating with the Iranians in arms for hostiges------there is chest beating public rethoric---and there is reality.

Besides---how do you define a terrorist?---the good old majahadeen freedon fighters we supported when we tweaking the nose of the Russian bear in during the cold war have now somewhat morfed into AL-Quida-----the Russians called them terrorists then-----and we called them freedom fighters then.

Lots going on behind the scenes we don't know about.

 

[Witchfire]

First of all, let me say I am FAR from being any kind of Bush supporter. As far as I'm concerned, he's guilty of almost as many crimes as Bin Laden, he just has better spin doctors.

I see a lot of pseudo-intellectual rambling here, but not a lot of simple (not-so)common sense.

How can anyone remotely believe in/see a possibility of/even imagine a truce with an enemy whose cultural basis has unquestionably called for war upon any whose ideals do not mirror their own, and whose religious rhetoric convinces their masses that for killing any of us, their reward will be eternal paradise?

Forget the offer of 'truce', ignore the bullsh*t, Finish the job we started. He caused the horrifying deaths of all those people on 9/11, and no truce will change that.

Giving any kind of serious thought to this 'offer' is a waste of time, and detracts from any REAL news and issues worthy of action.

[/rant]

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Witchfire
First of all, let me say I am FAR from being any kind of Bush supporter. As far as I'm concerned, he's guilty of almost as many crimes as Bin Laden, he just has better spin doctors.

I see a lot of pseudo-intellectual rambling here, but not a lot of simple (not-so)common sense.

How can anyone remotely believe in/see a possibility of/even imagine a truce with an enemy whose cultural basis has unquestionably called for war upon any whose ideals do not mirror their own, and whose religious rhetoric convinces their masses that for killing any of us, their reward will be eternal paradise?

Forget the offer of 'truce', ignore the bullsh*t, Finish the job we started. He caused the horrifying deaths of all those people on 9/11, and no truce will change that.

Giving any kind of serious thought to this 'offer' is a waste of time, and detracts from any REAL news and issues worthy of action.

[/rant]

What job have we started against terrorism? Creating a haven and breeding ground for terrorists?

 

[fierydemise]

I have no doubt an attack is coming, but I don't think its going to be a deadly one. I don't think anyone would deny that OBL's network isn't what it was before 9/11 so he can't coordinate something as complex and intricate as 9/11. He'll go with something simple that is designed to send a message, show he isn't down and out. My gut says that it'll be a strike on a port, it'll kill a few people but it'll shatter American confidence and destroying moral is most important in the long term.

 

[Witchfire]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
[
What job have we started against terrorism? Creating a haven and breeding ground for terrorists?

And you would maybe prefer we just stopped hunting his ass & tried the "Live & Let Live" approach?

Maybe try to sit down with him & work out our differences in a civil manner???

wtf-ever...

 

[flavio]

Full text

It is well known strategy of Bin Laden's to try to exploit the media and manipulate public opinion while using shrewd timing to further his goals.

You can't assume he's being honest and straight-forward and take this at face value. He spends years plotting and scheming so I'm sure this was very well thought out. Got to wonder what his intentions are and what did he stand to gain by releasing this.

Do you think he really expected this to get him a truce? Not likely and I doubt he even wanted one. If he really wanted a truce the entire message most likely wouldn't be filled mostly with insults, threats, and goading. Maybe it's meant to make him appear reasonable to possible allies. Maybe it's meant to make the US look bad as in "I offered them peace but they only want war".
You got to wonder what his agenda is when he talks about Iraq quite a bit with statements like these...

Based on what has been said, this shows the errors of Bush's statement - the one that slipped from him - which is at the heart of polls calling for withdrawing the troops. It is better that we (Americans) don't fight

Do you think he expects all the Americans to say "You know honey that Bin Laden is right, we should get out of Iraq right away!"? I don't think so. I'm sure he is fully aware that it's likely to make us do the opposite of what he appears to want.

...add to that bin Laden's Lieutenant al-Zawahiri's video from last month in which he plain out eggs us on:

today I congratulate everyone for the victory in Iraq. You remember, my dear Muslim brethren, what I told you more than a year ago, that the U.S. troops will pull out of Iraq. It was only a matter of time.

Seems it may be they want to make sure we stay in Iraq.

Timing...at a point where the majority of Americans have realized that the Iraq war was a nistake and Bush has taken a lot of criticism for the administrations attempts to encourage a connection between those responsible for 9/11 and Iraq why would bin-Laden suddenly associate himself with Iraq to the extent where somehow he will be involded in the rebuilding....huh?

How would bin-Laden gain or lose deoending on whether or not we continued occupying Iraq? So far the US keeping it's primary focus on Iraq likely greatly contributeds to Osama being able to avoid being caught. Maybe he wants to keep it that way.


There's sort of a symbiotic relationship between bin-laden and Bush. The ?war on terror? is a cover for the use of military to achieve US global strategic objectives which will only create more recruits for the Islamic fundamentalist extremist movements. New acts of terror against American targets, meanwhile, will be utilized to justify further US aggression all over the globe. The seeming disinterest of the Bush administration in capturing bin Laden is in good measure explained by the useful political purpose that his terrorism serves.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
The will never be/can never be a "truce" with terrorists by the US government no matter whom is the party in power. Along with Reps., Dems., Kerry, Dean, even Pelosi said in statements following the tape that the US will never negotiate with terrorists. This is nothing new and is not a partisan decsion....it is US policy and also the policy of most other nations.

Democrats are all over the map on the issue, just like the candidates in their party.

And tell Jimmy Carter about it. Just the other day he was making excuses for Hamas and said (I'm paraphrasing but I believe this statement is verbatim) - "Sometimes we need to negotiate with terrorists."

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: flavio
Full text

It is well known strategy of Bin Laden's to try to exploit the media and manipulate public opinion while using shrewd timing to further his goals.

You can't assume he's being honest and straight-forward and take this at face value. He spends years plotting and scheming so I'm sure this was very well thought out. Got to wonder what his intentions are and what did he stand to gain by releasing this.

Do you think he really expected this to get him a truce? Not likely and I doubt he even wanted one. If he really wanted a truce the entire message most likely wouldn't be filled mostly with insults, threats, and goading. Maybe it's meant to make him appear reasonable to possible allies. Maybe it's meant to make the US look bad as in "I offered them peace but they only want war".
You got to wonder what his agenda is when he talks about Iraq quite a bit with statements like these...

Based on what has been said, this shows the errors of Bush's statement - the one that slipped from him - which is at the heart of polls calling for withdrawing the troops. It is better that we (Americans) don't fight

Do you think he expects all the Americans to say "You know honey that Bin Laden is right, we should get out of Iraq right away!"? I don't think so. I'm sure he is fully aware that it's likely to make us do the opposite of what he appears to want.

...add to that bin Laden's Lieutenant al-Zawahiri's video from last month in which he plain out eggs us on:

today I congratulate everyone for the victory in Iraq. You remember, my dear Muslim brethren, what I told you more than a year ago, that the U.S. troops will pull out of Iraq. It was only a matter of time.

Seems it may be they want to make sure we stay in Iraq.

Timing...at a point where the majority of Americans have realized that the Iraq war was a nistake and Bush has taken a lot of criticism for the administrations attempts to encourage a connection between those responsible for 9/11 and Iraq why would bin-Laden suddenly associate himself with Iraq to the extent where somehow he will be involded in the rebuilding....huh?

How would bin-Laden gain or lose deoending on whether or not we continued occupying Iraq? So far the US keeping it's primary focus on Iraq likely greatly contributeds to Osama being able to avoid being caught. Maybe he wants to keep it that way.


There's sort of a symbiotic relationship between bin-laden and Bush. The ?war on terror? is a cover for the use of military to achieve US global strategic objectives which will only create more recruits for the Islamic fundamentalist extremist movements. New acts of terror against American targets, meanwhile, will be utilized to justify further US aggression all over the globe. The seeming disinterest of the Bush administration in capturing bin Laden is in good measure explained by the useful political purpose that his terrorism serves.

Excellent analysis, IMHO. Bush and bin Laden need each other and help each other's agendas. I don't think it's just coincidence that we hear from al Qaeda whenever there's a major scandal or political problem hitting the White House.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: flavioExcellent analysis, IMHO. Bush and bin Laden need each other and help each other's agendas. I don't think it's just coincidence that we hear from al Qaeda whenever there's a major scandal or political problem hitting the White House.

Both may benefit from each other (feeding of the hatred); but I sincerly doubt that each controls the other.

Sooner or later; some one will advance the theory that Bush is behind this latest communication; I would be very interested on how Bush calls up OBL and asks for another boost.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Sooner or later; some one will advance the theory that Bush is behind this latest communication; I would be very interested on how Bush calls up OBL and asks for another boost.

Please, don't advocate for any more liberal conspiracy theories. This board is full of them already :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Excellent analysis, IMHO. Bush and bin Laden need each other and help each other's agendas. I don't think it's just coincidence that we hear from al Qaeda whenever there's a major scandal or political problem hitting the White House.

Both may benefit from each other (feeding of the hatred); but I sincerly doubt that each controls the other.

Sooner or later; some one will advance the theory that Bush is behind this latest communication; I would be very interested on how Bush calls up OBL and asks for another boost.

I don't know that they do "control" each other, though I do wonder how much of the symbiosis is intentional and how much is just dumb luck.

As far as how it could work, do you really think the U.S. government lacks the technical ability to create "bin Laden" tapes IF they wanted to? Not necessarily that they are, but that they could. I've often wondered even about bin Laden himself. How much of his notoriety is real, how much was manufactured by the Bush machine to create a boogeyman figurehead for their War ... On .... Terror!!!!!! I'm not sure where the truth lies, but I've been around long enough to always take what Uncle Sam tells me with a grain of salt.

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Excellent analysis, IMHO. Bush and bin Laden need each other and help each other's agendas. I don't think it's just coincidence that we hear from al Qaeda whenever there's a major scandal or political problem hitting the White House.

Both may benefit from each other (feeding of the hatred); but I sincerly doubt that each controls the other.

Sooner or later; some one will advance the theory that Bush is behind this latest communication; I would be very interested on how Bush calls up OBL and asks for another boost.

I don't know that they do "control" each other, though I do wonder how much of the symbiosis is intentional and how much is just dumb luck.

As far as how it could work, do you really think the U.S. government lacks the technical ability to create "bin Laden" tapes IF they wanted to? Not necessarily that they are, but that they could. I've often wondered even about bin Laden himself. How much of his notoriety is real, how much was manufactured by the Bush machine to create a boogeyman figurehead for their War ... On .... Terror!!!!!! I'm not sure where the truth lies, but I've been around long enough to always take what Uncle Sam tells me with a grain of salt.

I kind of follow the Occam's Razor approach -- I think all these conspiracy theories try to explain things by adding too much complication and are therefore unlikely to be true.

BTW, as for me trusting bin Laden's offer of a truce -- I keep reminding myself this: bin Laden was planning the 9/11 attacks during the Clinton years. I remember the Clinton administration for helping the Kosovo Muslims and trying to broker peace in the Middle East. Before that, Reagon helped the Muslims in Afghanistan. The senior Bush protected Kuwait and Saudi Arabia from Saddam in the 1st Gulf War (unfortunately, he made a big mistake of leaving troops behind in Saudi Arabia which bin Laden didn't like). Overall, I don't think we were treating Muslims that badly. But if bin Laden hated us so much during that time to plan something like 9/11, then I'm not sure I can really trust him on the truce issue.

And I'm really worried about what he is planning now. I just have this sense of dread ever since 9/11 -- I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Witchfire

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
[
What job have we started against terrorism? Creating a haven and breeding ground for terrorists?

And you would maybe prefer we just stopped hunting his ass & tried the "Live & Let Live" approach?

Maybe try to sit down with him & work out our differences in a civil manner???

wtf-ever...

He was never hiding in Iraq.. so we definitely aren't "hunting his ass" there... We instead created a perfect breeding ground for more enemies... gj!

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: StormRider
I kind of follow the Occam's Razor approach -- I think all these conspiracy theories try to explain things by adding too much complication and are therefore unlikely to be true.

Keep it simple.

He hasn't put out a message in a long time. It's very likely that this one was carefully thought out and timed.

What effect was he predicting this message would have? Try reading it again from the viewpoint of someone who has to take extreme precautions to put one of these out and hasn't tried in over a year. Was this his honest and best effort to obtain a truce? Not even close...in fact it's mentioned in passing, with no detail, and not much attempt at being persuasive. So what's the real goal here?

 

[LiquidImpulse]

finally, we can all rest knowing they're is a slight possiblity of another 9/11! yay

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: LiquidImpulse
finally, we can all rest knowing they're is a slight possiblity of another 9/11! yay

Not yet--Deathbed Cheney hasn't yet threatened us if we don't vote for the "right" candidates come November.

Those drumbeats should start around summer assuming we haven't nuked Iran by then

 

[dahunan]

I feel like this could be a propaganda tape used in Mr bush's favor... Americans know that America doesn't negotiate with terrorists.. This truce offering just helps him to tell everyone that he is doing the right thing.. etc etc.