Breaking: New Theater Shooting In Lafayette, LA

[Blackjack200]

Believe it or not, I get what your saying and in principle don't have an issue with it. The problem is that any solution offered by the 'gun people' will be completely unacceptable to the anti-gun crowd as the only solution to many in the anti-gun crowd is 'no guns for the private sector -period'.

I honestly don't know of any way to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill or people that have a high probability of going off. Any method put in place would be a ripe target for abuse.

So your solution is to just tolerate these shootings. Great.

Look how our rights are bit by bit being eroded due to the Patriot Act and all the other measure to allegedly protect us from terrorism. And don't go blaming just the stupid party for this; your precious dems are every bit as culpable.

The difference is the patriot act doesn't keep us safe, it's just an excuse for state surveillance. I never supported the patriot act and fault Democrats just as much as Republicans.

 

[cabri]

Funny, other civilized countries don't seem to have this problem.
It's not so disturbing for some guy to have personal problems with a relationship, or a marriage, or an employer, or the political environment.
What is disturbing is too often now that a gun is the answer, AND if a gun is the answer that must also involve innocent life.
I have this eerie feeling this type of violence is to become the every day norm for America.
I guess we just have to hope and pray the odds are in our favor, that we or our loved ones are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You can't even go to school, to church, or to a movie without first weighing the odds you'll survive.

What about the lady in Saudi Arabia that stabbed her employer to death.

It happens all over the world, no matter what the weapon.

In the US, it is more publicized/sensationalism

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, also that lady that walked into a movie theatre and stabbed two people to death. Don't forget that one either.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Or the two teens who stabbed/chopped 5 people to death and severely injured another in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Wonder why that hasn't been posted in here?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/five-dead-broken-arrow-oklahoma-two-teens-detained-n396961

Five Found Dead in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma; Two Teen Relatives Detained

Detectives believe "several types of weapons were used," Calhoun said, including a small hatchet and knives.

 

[Blackjack200]

Or the two teens who stabbed/chopped 5 people to death and severely injured another in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. Wonder why that hasn't been posted in here?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/five-dead-broken-arrow-oklahoma-two-teens-detained-n396961

I don't know, why don't you start a thread about the attack, the surviving 13 old that called 911 and defintely would not have been killed if guns had been used instead of knives, the fact that knives are just as deadly as guns, and that controlling guns is stupid because people will just crash airplanes instead.

Sounds like a great time.

 

[FerrelGeek]

So your solution is to just tolerate these shootings. Great.

Um, no, I didn't say that. I'm saying that there could be a solution but that I seriously doubt that said solution would be acceptable and could very likely be abused.

The difference is the patriot act doesn't keep us safe, it's just an excuse for state surveillance. I never supported the patriot act and fault Democrats just as much as Republicans.

And no gun control solutions will keep us safe either as people bent on mass murder will find ways to do it. There are plenty of examples of non gun-related mass killings; some of them have been linked to in past threads on here.

Edit - Didn't read other posts before replying to yours. Others have already pointed out examples of non gun mass killings.

 

[Blackjack200]

Um, no, I didn't say that. I'm saying that there could be a solution but that I seriously doubt that said solution would be acceptable and could very likely be abused.

So are you saying you don't have a solution, or that any potential solution is probably worse than what we have now? I don't understand what you're saying.

And no gun control solutions will keep us safe either as people bent on mass murder will find ways to do it. There are plenty of examples of non gun-related mass killings; some of them have been linked to in past threads on here.

Edit - Didn't read other posts before replying to yours. Others have already pointed out examples of non gun mass killings.

Really? Seems to work pretty well in Europe.

 

[Genx87]

So are you saying you don't have a solution, or that any potential solution is probably worse than what we have now? I don't understand what you're saying.



Really? Seems to work pretty well in Europe.

There isnt a solution that will end mass killings. We need to first start the conversation by having a realistic framework. Now, are there ways to reduce mass killings or killings in general? I think so. But they also need to be weighed against liberties of people not breaking the law.

Europe had one of the largest mass killings in the history of mass killings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

Europe also has a long history of not having personal weapons or severe restrictions placed on said weapons. Europe has also abused that cultural difference to only allow the state to have weapons of war to kill millions via genocide. So I don't think Europe is a great example of why we shouldn't have guns.

 

[Subyman]

You guys ever get tired of harping on the same gun control strings over and over? We've heard all the arguments for and against. Nothing will change.

 

[TheSlamma]

You guys ever get tired of harping on the same gun control strings over and over? We've heard all the arguments for and against. Nothing will change.

But dude.. <insert links and stats>

 

[jackstar7]

You guys ever get tired of harping on the same gun control strings over and over? We've heard all the arguments for and against. Nothing will change.

I'd rather see people continue to be moved to some form of action rather than just sullenly accepting of these acts of violence.

Apathy is an enemy of all.

 

[senseamp]

There isnt a solution that will end mass killings. We need to first start the conversation by having a realistic framework. Now, are there ways to reduce mass killings or killings in general? I think so. But they also need to be weighed against liberties of people not breaking the law.

Europe had one of the largest mass killings in the history of mass killings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

Europe also has a long history of not having personal weapons or severe restrictions placed on said weapons. Europe has also abused that cultural difference to only allow the state to have weapons of war to kill millions via genocide. So I don't think Europe is a great example of why we shouldn't have guns.

With the Breivik shooting included, what are the statistics as far as probability of being killed by a gun in Europe vs the US?
My understanding is that Breivik's 77 victims are a few days worth of US gun deaths.

 

[Genx87]

With the Breivik shooting included, what are the statistics as far as probability of being killed by a gun in Europe vs the US?
My understanding is that Breivik's 77 victims are a few days worth of US gun deaths.

Who cares? Our cultures are different. We have a gun culture that has been ingrained into society since the founding of the country. My point to bring Breivik into this discussion is mass killings do still happen around the world, specifically in Europe. And no laws have truly stopped them.

My second point is Europe's history of guns out of, or severely restricted in the hands of the civilian population has lead to millions killed by the state in genocide. So using Europe as an example to take away our guns is pretty bad.

 

[dank69]

I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

http://news.yahoo.com/john-russell-...movie-theater-shooting-suspect-134806223.html

...

Houser listed "God's Business" as one of his skills.

He appeared on "Calvin Floyd Live," previously called “Rise and Shine,” on WLTZ NBC 38 in more than 60 episodes, according to the LinkedIn page.

“Invited political controversy on every one of them, and loved every minute of it,” he said.

The show’s host, Floyd, told Yahoo News that he invited Houser on his show many times to discuss his radical views because it was entertaining and caused tremendous buzz.

“He was a guest because he was good TV entertainment, not because it was a respected opinion that he had to say. But he was very entertaining all the time,” Floyd said in a phone interview with Yahoo news. “He had Tea Party-radical Republican views on everything. I’d have a Democratic spokesperson on [for the opposing perspective]. He generated a lot of phone calls.”

Houser was a member of Tea Party Nation, according to the group’s website.

The Hatewatch Blog, which is run by the Intelligence Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center, uncovered that Houser posted about his fondness for Hitler, neo-Nazis and lone wolves on several online forums.

"Do not mistake yourselves for one minute, the enemy sees all posted on this website," he wrote on a site dedicated to the New York chapter of Greece's far-right Golden Dawn, which espouses fascist and neo-Nazi ideologies.

"I do not want to discourage the last hope for the best, but you must realize the power of the lone wolf, is the power that can come forth in ALL situations.Look within yourselves," he continued.

Heidi Beirich, who leads the Intelligence Project, told Yahoo News that the Greek government is investigating Golden Dawn and considering shutting it down.

“We don’t know what his motivation was for the theater," Beirich said in an interview with Yahoo News. "He obviously loved Hitler and wanted to know about white power groups, but what led him to do that shooting is unclear."

Elsewhere, on the U.S. Message Board, a political discussion forum, he wrote, "Hitler accomplished far more than any other through 'pragmatically forming.'"

Authorities identified the young women he murdered as Macy Breaux, 21, and Jillian Johnson, 33, and said another person is in critical condition.
...

 

[ivwshane]

Ah another "patriot"!

It's just one bad apple though.






/s

 

[CitizenKain]

I am shocked. Shocked I tell you.

http://news.yahoo.com/john-russell-...movie-theater-shooting-suspect-134806223.html

Ok, has anyone seen spidey recently.

 

[ivwshane]

Ok, has anyone seen spidey recently.

Shit, that could fit the MO of any number of posters who post here.

 

[dank69]

Ok, has anyone seen spidey recently.

Witnesses report hearing the suspect shouting "No more! Nobama! November!" and "No blacks! No Muslims! No gays!" and finally "I'm about to curb-stomp me some liberals!"

 

[Blackjack200]

You guys ever get tired of harping on the same gun control strings over and over? We've heard all the arguments for and against. Nothing will change.

I don't know who this is directed at, but from my perspective the gun control side has offered their solution (in the form of strict gun control) and been rebuked for it.

If we're not going to try our idea, then it's on the other side to present a solution or take the position that no solution is workable or superior to the current situation, so nothing should be changed.

I don't see how it can be any different.

Who cares? Our cultures are different. We have a gun culture that has been ingrained into society since the founding of the country. My point to bring Breivik into this discussion is mass killings do still happen around the world, specifically in Europe. And no laws have truly stopped them.

1. That's not widely accepted.
2. Even if it was; slavery was also ingrained into the society at the founding of the country. That's not a good measure of the worth of an idea.
3. Your Breivik argument is silly because the point of the laws is to reduce gun violence. By your logic we should remove the seatbelts from cars because sometimes people die despite wearing them, or even because they're wearing them.

My second point is Europe's history of guns out of, or severely restricted in the hands of the civilian population has lead to millions killed by the state in genocide. So using Europe as an example to take away our guns is pretty bad.

I'd like to see you link to a serious historian or policy expert that argues that gun control in a Western democracy could lead to genocide.

 

[Genx87]

1. That's not widely accepted.
2. Even if it was; slavery was also ingrained into the society at the founding of the country. That's not a good measure of the worth of an idea.
3. Your Breivik argument is silly because the point of the laws is to reduce gun violence. By your logic we should remove the seatbelts from cars because sometimes people die despite wearing them, or even because they're wearing them.

1. What do you mean it isnt widely accepted? it is written into our constitution. When liberals talk gun control they discuss our gun culture. A large % of the population owns a gun.
2. And slavery was abolished via the 13th amendment.
3. My point isnt silly. And it adds to my point we cant stop mass killings. We can only hope to reduce them. But to reduce them via law needs to be weighed against the liberties of the vast majority of the civilian population.

I'd like to see you link to a serious historian or policy expert that argues that gun control in a Western democracy could lead to genocide.

Dont need a historian to see the correlation of a culture that views weapons as the right of the state vs the population has lead to abuses by the state against the population.

Again, if you are going to use Europe as an example why citizen in the United States should be disarmed it is a poor example. Unarmed citizens in Europe have been slaughtered wholesale by their govts over the centuries. You really couldn't find a better example of why we need to retain our gun rights than Europe.

 

[senseamp]

Who cares? Our cultures are different. We have a gun culture that has been ingrained into society since the founding of the country. My point to bring Breivik into this discussion is mass killings do still happen around the world, specifically in Europe. And no laws have truly stopped them.

Who cares about what? Actual probability of getting shot as opposed to anecdotal cases and strawmen? I do.

My second point is Europe's history of guns out of, or severely restricted in the hands of the civilian population has lead to millions killed by the state in genocide. So using Europe as an example to take away our guns is pretty bad.

I am not going to get into our genocide of Native Americans vs European genocides. Genocides are bad.
How about we look at Switzerland's laws? No one is accusing them of being gun grabbers, and they have some of the lowest gun violence rates in the world. No shame in admitting they are doing the right to bear arms and well regulated militias better.

 

[Genx87]

Who cares about what? Actual probability of getting shot as opposed to anecdotal cases and strawmen? I do.

I am not going to get into our genocide of Native Americans vs European genocides. Genocides are bad.
How about we look at Switzerland's laws? No one is accusing them of being gun grabbers, and they have some of the lowest gun violence rates in the world. No shame in admitting they are doing the right to bear arms and well regulated militias better.

Are you making an argument that gun laws or lack there of have little to do with gun violence? I think we are making progress

Anyways about our genocide. Who was the actor in this genocide? Our govt. And who were they slaughtering wholesale? Mostly unarmed or vastly out powered Native Americans. And when the govt stopped killing them, they put them into concentration camps(reservations). Another great example of why the people need to be armed.

 

[jackstar7]

Anyways about our genocide. Who was the actor in this genocide? Our govt. And who were they slaughtering wholesale? Mostly unarmed or vastly out powered Native Americans. And when the govt stopped killing them, they put them into concentration camps(reservations). Another great example of why the people need to be armed.

Also, the just as likely Red Dawn scenario.

 

[Blackjack200]

Anyways about our genocide. Who was the actor in this genocide? Our govt. And who were they slaughtering wholesale? Mostly unarmed or vastly out powered Native Americans. And when the govt stopped killing them, they put them into concentration camps(reservations). Another great example of why the people need to be armed.

So to effectively protect ourselves from government we need to match their weaponry? We're as out powered as the Native Americans were. Far more actually.

I'd argue that there's more government intrusion into our lives than at any point in our history, and we are also more armed than at any point in our history. That seems completely at odds with your point.

 

[Subyman]

I'd rather see people continue to be moved to some form of action rather than just sullenly accepting of these acts of violence.

Apathy is an enemy of all.

A lot of action from this forum :roll eyes: