Breaking: bombing suspect to be tried as civilian.

[Anarchist420]

Link.

I'd have been happier if the U.S. govt stayed out of it and left it to the State of Massachusetts, but at least he should be getting due process.

This doesn't mean that the right thing will be done (which would be restitution to the victims' families), but I'm still somewhat pleasantly surprised.

 

[Texashiker]

I'd have been happier if the U.S. govt stayed out of it and left it to the State of Massachusetts, but at least he should be getting due process.

Massachusetts does not have the death penalty.

Which means the liberals are going to leave the dirty work to the feds.

 

[fskimospy]

Massachusetts does not have the death penalty.

Which means the liberals are going to leave the dirty work to the feds.

'The liberals' being who exactly?

 

[surfsatwerk]

'The liberals' being who exactly?

The ENTIRE state of Massachusetts.

 

[Texashiker]

'The liberals' being who exactly?

The ENTIRE state of Massachusetts.

Yep, pretty much.

The state is opposed to the death penalty, until a bomber kills and maims, then the feds have to step in to extract real justice.

The only true penalty in the bomber case has to be death. But the liberals are not up to the job. Send the suspect to Texas, we know how to take care of criminals.

 

[fskimospy]

Yep, pretty much.

The state is opposed to the death penalty, until a bomber kills and maims, then the feds have to step in to extract real justice.

That doesn't make any sense. The feds were the ones with the choice here, not Massachusetts. Sure Massachusetts could have chosen to charge him with state level crimes as well, but that hardly would matter as to the outcome and we all know it.

So how exactly did 'the liberals' leave the dirty work to the feds on something that wasn't their choice to begin with?

EDIT: Oh and no, the only 'true' penalty does not have to be death.

 

[Texashiker]

That doesn't make any sense. The feds were the ones with the choice here, not Massachusetts. Sure Massachusetts could have chosen to charge him with state level crimes as well, but that hardly would matter as to the outcome and we all know it.

So how exactly did 'the liberals' leave the dirty work to the feds on something that wasn't their choice to begin with?

See my ninja edit about the only true penalty.

 

[fskimospy]

See my ninja edit about the only true penalty.

Irrelevant. It wasn't Massachusetts' choice as to whether or not the feds tried him. I'm still waiting to see how Massachusetts was leaving any 'dirty work' up to the feds when they had no choice in the matter either way.

I feel like you didn't think this all the way through.

 

[Texashiker]

Irrelevant. It wasn't Massachusetts' choice as to whether or not the feds tried him. I'm still waiting to see how Massachusetts was leaving any 'dirty work' up to the feds when they had no choice in the matter either way.

I feel like you didn't think this all the way through.

The feds have the final say so in the matter.

But then again, Massachusetts does not support the death penality which will be the only true form of justice. Massachusetts did not think it all the way through by abolishing the death penalty.

Liberals states are handicapping themselves when it comes to these radical dealers of death.

If it was left to Massachusetts, the state would send the person to prison, where they would continue to spread hatred for the rest of their lives.

 

[fskimospy]

The feds have the final say so in the matter.

But then again, Massachusetts does not support the death penality which will be the only true form of justice. Massachusetts did not think it all the way through by abolishing the death penalty.

Liberals states are handicapping themselves when it comes to these radical dealers of death.

If it was left to Massachusetts, the state would send the person to prison, where they would continue to spread hatred for the rest of their lives.

I'm sure they did think it all the way through. You realize that the US is the last remaining developed country with the death penalty in any capacity, right?

You have just unilaterally declared the death penalty the only 'true' justice and then attacked Massachusetts for not having it. Maybe they don't view the death penalty as true justice, I know that I don't. It's an unfortunate, expensive, barbarous relic from when the US was a less mature nation.

In addition, there are quite a lot of high profile terrorists who are in fact rotting in prison as we speak. How many of them do you hear spewing hatred these days? Not too many, I'd wager.

 

[Texashiker]

I'm sure they did think it all the way through. You realize that the US is the last remaining developed country with the death penalty in any capacity, right?

And?

As far as I am concerned Texas is not executing them fast enough. We need to get some kind of assembly line going on.

In addition, there are quite a lot of high profile terrorists who are in fact rotting in prison as we speak. How many of them do you hear spewing hatred these days? Not too many, I'd wager.

Not everyone in prison spends the rest of their life there. Some of them "do" get out from time to time.

The state of Massachusetts would send someone to prison where their anger is a seed for those that are going to get out of prison.

Hatred and anger is like an infectious disease. As long as criminals are alive to spread that disease, then society will have to deal with it.

Just as we use medicine to kill infections, so should we use the death penalty to stop the spread of criminal behavior.

 

[Anarchist420]

Massachusetts does not have the death penalty. Which means the liberals are going to leave the dirty work to the feds.

Dude, the crime was against the BOSTON marathon. If the U.S. govt is not going to charge him with Treason, then it has no rightful jurisdiction over this matter. Not even the Constitution, as centralist as it is, says that "terrorism" is a federally punishable crime.

I'm not trying to be an asshole or rude to you or anything, but it's voters with your rather emotional mindset that keep the public spending high.

 

[Anarchist420]

It wasn't Massachusetts' choice as to whether or not the feds tried him

+1.

 

[Fern]

I'm not sure what difference it would make to charge him in civilian court versus military, I just wish they had waited long enough to get a handle on the brothers' level of participation, if any, with terrorist groups and then make the best decision

Too much info leaking out now about possible sleeper cells, the bombs being more complicated than many have been suggesting and questions of financial support etc.

But I strongly suspect that the Obama admin was going to charge him in civilian court no matter what became known.

Fern

 

[thraashman]

Yep, pretty much.

The state is opposed to the death penalty, until a bomber kills and maims, then the feds have to step in to extract real justice.

The only true penalty in the bomber case has to be death. But the liberals are not up to the job. Send the suspect to Texas, we know how to take care of criminals.

That actually doesn't make sense. So many fundamentalist Muslim bombers are suicide bombers anyway so clearly they don't fear death. Death isn't a punishment to them or the others that think like them. So not only is it NOT the "only true penalty", to a lot of them it's not even a penalty. You want to give him a real penalty, life in jail, no parole, solitary confinement for the duration. A lifetime of utter loneliness is a damn big penalty that will get to any man.

 

[Phokus]

And?

As far as I am concerned Texas is not executing them fast enough. We need to get some kind of assembly line going on.

You could always move to Saudi Arabia if you want to quench your blood lust so badly. I hear they love executions and do them quite often, quite swiftly.

 

[Texashiker]

A lifetime of utter loneliness is a damn big penalty that will get to any man.

I honestly hope that is what he gets.

 

[LunarRay]

The feds have the final say so in the matter.

But then again, Massachusetts does not support the death penalty which will be the only true form of justice. Massachusetts did not think it all the way through by abolishing the death penalty.

Liberals states are handicapping themselves when it comes to these radical dealers of death.

If it was left to Massachusetts, the state would send the person to prison, where they would continue to spread hatred for the rest of their lives.

The Feds have the ONLY say so on Federal Law... and Massachusetts has the only say so on its State Law...

Each jurisdiction has their own penalties for the associated proved crimes.

Death penalty is an issue that has both moral and financial aspects as well as punitive and others. What the folks in the various States that abandoned the Death Penalty as a viable tool have found is informative to the rest of the nation. If eye for an eye bible belt retribution is mandated by some God like authority I'd wager the rest of the civilized world will become agnostic before adopting Death as a punishment.

 

[fskimospy]

And?

As far as I am concerned Texas is not executing them fast enough. We need to get some kind of assembly line going on.

That's fine. Under Texas' current system it is extremely likely that the state has already executed at least one innocent man, probably more, not to mention the number of death convictions voided while they were on death row that would presumably have gone through your 'assembly line'.

If you don't mind murdering innocent people then I'm sure you don't mind speeding up the death penalty.

Not everyone in prison spends the rest of their life there. Some of them "do" get out from time to time.

The state of Massachusetts would send someone to prison where their anger is a seed for those that are going to get out of prison.

Hatred and anger is like an infectious disease. As long as criminals are alive to spread that disease, then society will have to deal with it.

Just as we use medicine to kill infections, so should we use the death penalty to stop the spread of criminal behavior.

You don't actually think this guy is ever getting out of prison, do you? As for others, are you claiming that he will spread some sort of radical terrorist ideology through prison that will manifest in other prisoners released from whatever institution he's incarcerated in? What are you basing this on? Are you aware of his likely conditions of confinement?

But yeah, the death penalty has really worked to stop the spread of criminal behavior. That's why the crime rates are so much lower in countries that have it vs. countries that don't.

Oh wait.

 

[Texashiker]

Death penalty is an issue that has both moral and financial aspects as well as punitive and others. What the folks in the various States that abandoned the Death Penalty as a viable tool have found is informative to the rest of the nation. Unless eye for an eye bible belt retribution is mandated by some God like authority I'd wager the rest of the civilized world would become agnostic before adopting Death as a punishment.

That is one reason why we are going to lose this war with religion. We are trying to use logic with people who only understand violence.

Radical islam only understands violence.

 

[LunarRay]

The bomber fellow will spend the rest of his life in Super Max at Colorado with the rest of the folks who prefer a life filled with nothing....

 

[Texashiker]

The bomber fellow will spend the rest of his life in Super Max at Colorado with the rest of the folks who prefer a life filled with nothing....

Some terrorist from Iran who spent most of his life in a mud hut would probably enough a bed, 3 meals a day, medical care, AC/heat, hot shower, clean blanket,,,,.

Our justice system is not setup to deal with people like the boston bombing suspect, or even future bombers. Here in the USA we do not have a justice system, we have a warehouse where criminals are kept.

There is no justice, there is no rehabilitation, there is only warehousing.

Lets say the bombing suspect is found guilty and put to death. What then? We are dealing with a group of people who idolize death.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
I'd have been happier if the U.S. govt stayed out of it and left it to the State of Massachusetts, but at least he should be getting due process.
-snip-

The question is 'which due process'.

What Are The Grounds For Denaturalization?

Most revocation of citizenship cases in the United States are based on three grounds:

3. Membership In Subversive Organizations

As the above example shows, the U.S. government has invoked denaturalization against immigrants due to their affiliations with Nazi, communist, terrorist, or other similar groups.

Membership in such organizations is deemed a violation of the oath of allegiance to the United States. In particular, if a naturalized citizen joins a subversive organization within five years after becoming a U.S. citizen, the government can cancel his or her citizenship.

http://www.bataraimmigrationlaw.com/denaturalization-revocation-citizenship.html

He only received citizenship a matter of months ago (either Sept or Dec of last year, depending upon the source). Is it possible he went ahead with citizenship, even though he hated the USA, in anticipation of better treatment?

Fern

 

[nextJin]

????

The vast majority of the crimes are Federal crimes, Fed > State. They didnt have a choice in the matter, sure they can throw their own charges on top of what is already there but it will literally have no effect at all other than waste the states time.

 

[sportage]

So the theme is going to be "the brother put him up to it"?
Reminds me of the scene in the film Schindler's List where the Nazi is asking a lineup of prisoners "who took the chicken", and the boy points at one of the dead prisoners saying "he did it".
Im guessing it will be life in prison, cable tv, library, internet, three squares a day, full medical, gym, college, and birthday cards from mom and dad. Probably several tv spots on the best news shows from time to time. And then, his own reality tv show, "I killed Americans and all I got for it was this lousy tea shirt".