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Brazil Snubs Boeing in 4 Billion Dollar Jet Fighter Purchase

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Good for Brazil. And probably good for us. Since the only reason anything actually happens in this country is because Big Business wills it, we may actually see some change coming. Start affecting the pocket books of billion dollar businesses, and suddenly Washington starts to listen to people.
 
k3n said:
Pfft, the Saab Grippen's thrust to weight ratio is below 1.0, making it inferior to f-16's and Mig-29.
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JAS 39 Gripen NG (which is what the Brazilians are buying) have a higher T/W than previous C/D versions. Then you have aerodynamics and wing loading factors that affects turning. Both can sustain 9Gs in a turn, but the F-16 will lose more speed while doing so. Using T/W ratio like you do is silly.

All in all you end up with a very small, agile, reliable aircraft with good combat radius. It's not the best multi-role aircraft, but it's built on a well-established platform at a low price both in regards to the purchase and maintenance/operating costs (compared to the competition).
 
Triumph said:
Good for Brazil. And probably good for us. Since the only reason anything actually happens in this country is because Big Business wills it, we may actually see some change coming. Start affecting the pocket books of billion dollar businesses, and suddenly Washington starts to listen to people.
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Sadly, this will be the reason that the NSA may get reigned in. Not because of our individual rights being violated at a nano-second rate.
 
hey hey we can still torpedo this thing - we can have the CIA inject some 'why are we spending $4 billion anyway' into the brazillian gov :twisted:


...anyway aren't the borders of south america pretty stable? i don't imagine a bunch of new high tech fighters being all than a little older fighers against guerrillas or little insurgent groups
 
PottedMeat said:
hey hey we can still torpedo this thing - we can have the CIA inject some 'why are we spending $4 billion anyway' into the brazillian gov :twisted:


...anyway aren't the borders of south america pretty stable? i don't imagine a bunch of new high tech fighters being all than a little older fighers against guerrillas or little insurgent groups
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I'm sure they were just protecting our interests in the Ethanol market. 🙄
 
TheVrolok said:
Do people honestly believe that foreign intelligence agencies are not also spying on their neighbors and allys?
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This.
Everyone is doing it. The US just got exposed for doing it and now everything is going to be blamed on this. Just like anything wrong with the health care system will be blamed on Obamacare even though most people get their insurance through their employers.
 
davmat787 said:
Just to add some data to my post #20 above, here is some data on Embraers newest and largest series, the E-Jets. This data is for worldwide operators, I am trying to find domestic only numbers.

I have not flown one myself, but I hear great things about them.
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Republic Airlines is running some American Eagle flights with E-175s on routes I use a lot. MUCH better experience than CRJs or ERJs. Nice planes.
 
werepossum said:
The lesson here is that government agencies will seize more and more power unless reined in by a...
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...non-subservient, non-sheepish population.

A strong leader is great too, but only if they respect the population,and understand their own constitutionally-mandated limits, not just being "strong" about doing their own thing against the people's will. (Pretty much ALL of our current crop of politicians.)
 


We can't fight for Internet freedom around the world, then turn around and destroy it back home. Even if we don't see the contradiction, the rest of the world does. -- B.Schneier
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More NSA Blowback:
German Minister Floats US Company Ban
German Justice Minister Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger has raised the possibility of punishing American companies who violate future European privacy
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Statement from Brazil's President's Office
“The illegal practices of intercepting the communications and data of Brazilian citizens, businesses and government members constitute a serious assault on national sovereignty and individual rights, and are incompatible with the democratic coexistence between friendly countries.”

None of this is going to help US telecommunication, Internet, or cloud companies. Boeing's four billion dollar loss is just the start...

Uno
 
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Yes, everyone spies on everyone - but HOW, and HOW MUCH?

The US currently seems to do things because it can, with little regard to anyone outside its borders. No low profile spying about inter-state interests but rather massive global spying on everything, everywhere, in the cloud storage you use, in the servers you buy, in the mail, in everything.

The problem is that your gov (the NSA is just a part of it, after all - you cannot tell others that the hand is an entity seperate from the body, doing its own thing) developed the means BEFORE developing the correct moral code for using them.
 
Genx87 said:
I didnt think our level of dislike among the world population could get any worse after Bush. But Obama has certainly proved he is up to the challenge of pissing off the world even more.
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And all he had to do was be weak and continue and expand the Bush policies... too bad we didn't get a true successor to FDR instead of a pretender.
 
American Fighter contracts are usually excellent deals for buyers.
Even if the equipment itself makes no sense for the doctrine of the buyer. We like to keep production lines running for political purposes so we throw in an excellent package (support, equipment, spares and loans) .
HOWEVER, the strings that go along with incorporating big dollar US assets into your armed forces is kind of a pain in the ass. Who the hell wants to have some diplomat threaten that "engine contracts might not go as well as you'd like unless you make some concessions on this treaty on pickles and cotton swab imports. "

Looking at Super Hornet vs Grippen for Brazil, Grippen is a better choice.
The support cost vs the Super Hornet is lower and the capability is close enough.
Grippen has a nice avionics suite, decent range and weapons package as well as a lot of common components plus support from the manufacturer. Toss in NATO compatibility and its a good buy. Depending on payload it will even super cruise.
 
Zaap said:
...non-subservient, non-sheepish population.

A strong leader is great too, but only if they respect the population,and understand their own constitutionally-mandated limits, not just being "strong" about doing their own thing against the people's will. (Pretty much ALL of our current crop of politicians.)
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I don't think the population has much power any more.
 
Good. The US should require any company that builds military equipment for them to only supply military equipment to five eyes.

Also, if Brazil wants shitty planes, more power to them.
 
The NSA "Leaks" are a good thing. The goverment has doing stupid unconstitutional and expenive shit for too long, and it's wasting money and resources, and it's not helping anything at all.

The Behavior of the NSA, of Congrees, of the Senate, of the President, has been disgusting as of the last several decades. American dream is becoming American nightmare. The middle class is doomed, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The service economy is here to stay, and none of the policies from any politician in any political party will help restore things to a better state of being.

If we have the goverment we deserve, then we are clearly being punished for something.
 
blankslate said:
Whose policies did he continue instead of making a clean break from....


wonder why?


maybe this guy was closer to the mark than he ever imagined....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJPwM8nehkQ





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If you believe Snowden, Obama didn't didn't just continue polices, he put them into warp drive. Meta data is one thing (IIRC, years ago the SCOTUS has OK'd that), but capturing the content of phone calls and emails is something entirely different. According to Snowden the latter began in 2011 after the Obama admin changed the NSA policy.

Fern
 
Fern said:
If you believe Snowden, Obama didn't didn't just continue polices, he put them into warp drive. Meta data is one thing (IIRC, years ago the SCOTUS has OK'd that), but capturing the content of phone calls and emails is something entirely different. According to Snowden the latter began in 2011 after the Obama admin changed the NSA policy.

Fern
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Yes, but it the policies were not started in the first place how would he have been able to continue and accelerate them....

people who turned a blind eye back in 2007 when datamining was revealed by a whistleblower are assholes when it takes the expansion of the spying program to finally make them upset.
 
blankslate said:
Yes, but it the policies were not started in the first place how would he have been able to continue and accelerate them....
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This is probably the dumbest thing I've read in quite a while. Are you absolving Obama of all blame? Is his administration not responsible for its own actions? Does his administration suffer from afluenza?
 
Triumph said:
This is probably the dumbest thing I've read in quite a while. Are you absolving Obama of all blame? Is his administration not responsible for its own actions? Does his administration suffer from afluenza?
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Fuck no, we as voters are to blame....

blankslate said:
Yes, but it the policies were not started in the first place how would he have been able to continue and accelerate them....

people who turned a blind eye back in 2007 when datamining was revealed by a whistleblower are assholes when it takes the expansion of the spying program to finally make them upset.
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Maybe you should attempt to read the whole post...

We did not get upset enough back in 2007 when the whistle blower revealed AT&T cooperating with the government to allow a datamining connection to a hub in San Francisco.

We gave them an inch and a mile was taken.

We should not have given them that inch in the first place...





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