Then why stop at a Q6600 and 8800GT? You want to play nicer games,do you not? QX9770 and 9800GX2 SLI says hi
But then his computer would become so nice that there won't be any game nice enough to play on it. He will have to run 3dmark all day.
He can always wait for Crysis 2,or just run Crysis @ 2560x1600 :QOriginally posted by: CP5670
But then his computer would become so nice that there won't be any game nice enough to play on it. He will have to run 3dmark all day.
Dumac
Diamond Member
- Dec 31, 2005
- 9,391
- 1
- 0
Wow, I feel bad for you.
Anyway, games have been constantly getting dumbed down to appeal to a larger audience.
Examples:
System Shock -----> Bioshock
Morrowind -----> Oblivion
NWN -----> NWN2
Gothic II -----> Gothic III
(arguably) SSBM -----> SSBB
Older MMOs -----> Newer MMOS
Hell, I'll even go as far as to say that not-so-mental-reaching games such as Counterstrike and Halo are even simpler and more brainless in their modern counterparts.
Also, there is the noticeable lack of games of certain "more complex genre's" *cough space flight sims cough*
Still, there are, as many other members said, games that require thought, especially some of the newer strategy games. Thing do seem to be on a constant trail to perfect simplicity, however.
The complexity and the feeling of "work" are two very separate things. You can be playing, for example FSX and be having fun, at the same time its not work. I bring up Flashpoint often, I loved it. Its mechanics are outdated now, and Arma sucks bad... but the game surely isn't work, but it keeps a complex atmosphere while keeping the player feeling satisfied and entertained. Complex games/brain utilization does not equal bordem if the game is made correctly.... but if course, people like to "spawn shoot die, spawn shoot die" over and over and over and over again. No tactics, brainless... Thats the pure definition of insanity...
Sad that thats what sells....
Sad that thats what sells....
Zenoth
Diamond Member
- Jan 29, 2005
- 5,202
- 216
- 106
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
Hoookay, this'll probably start a flame-off, but for those who take pure 100% liking to brainless shooters like: Counter Strike, Unreal Tournament, Team Fortress, Crysis, BF2, Call of Duty, the list goes on and on. The only defense on Crysis is that it doesn't have to be played as brainlessly as the rest. And no, the modifications don't count, sure Project Reality, Obsidian Edge, etc are great but they are not the game in its own right.
It's like a bag of dough nuts + a hooker every Friday night. It's satisfying, its fast, its (sometimes) cheap
Where are games like WW2 Online, Operation Flashpoint, Combat Flight Simulator just to name a few. Where you actually have to use your brain in order to out-think your opponent. Silent Hunter is nice but PVP is horrific, and older games like Sim City 4 are brain intensive but again, no PVP worthy to speak about.
It's like at brainstorming meetings at a developers studio, "Oh, since most people don't have brains and/or choose not to use them, lets make a brainless game so we can maximize the profit. As long as we have graphics! Oooh boy graphics graphics GRAPHICS!". Graphics get old no matter how good developers make them. We're getting close to the threshold on graphic computing anyways, now we need severe mechanics and game play enhancements... *Sigh* I'd be happy with graphics from 1999', but with severe mechanical upgrades compensating for nearly everything else that is lacking today.
Edit: Ok, I get that people play games for a quick fix to "get away" from reality, but the satisfaction of outsmarting/out flanking/out maneuvering someone is just as satisfying in my view.
Basically you're trying to reason personal tastes.
Do you realize how irrelevant that is?
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
- 81
Smart games require smart opposition.
This means either smart AI, or smart human players in multiplayer.
The former is difficult to program under the best of circumstances, and game programming is not even close to the best of circumstances. And Smart AI is difficult to advertise even if achieved, so budgeting it is a huge risk.
The latter requires the player the find a group of smart human players, coordinate with them, and find time where they are all available. That's just plain work.
It should be no suprise that "smart" games are rare. Developers and players are going to disagree on who bears the burden of smartness, so they won't get made or bought.
This means either smart AI, or smart human players in multiplayer.
The former is difficult to program under the best of circumstances, and game programming is not even close to the best of circumstances. And Smart AI is difficult to advertise even if achieved, so budgeting it is a huge risk.
The latter requires the player the find a group of smart human players, coordinate with them, and find time where they are all available. That's just plain work.
It should be no suprise that "smart" games are rare. Developers and players are going to disagree on who bears the burden of smartness, so they won't get made or bought.
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
- 3
- 81
But it IS linear...you have objectives and you're forced to go from point A to point B...just because you can sometimes choose how to get there doesn't make it nonlinear. Heck, the scripted checkpoints on most open levels pretty much make sure you have to follow somewhat of a set path. It's a linear FPS, you just have much larger environments than the norm.
ConstipatedVigilante
Diamond Member
- Feb 22, 2006
- 7,670
- 1
- 0
Ok, you don't like twitch FPSs. Suit yourself. I've played almost 4 days' worth of CoD4 and I'm still loving it. On my second playthrough of Crysis and BF2 stays installed and played occasionally.
For a thinking shooter, you might like Red Orchestra. Not as large scale as Operation Flash Point, but more strategy than CoD4.
Edit: As for being brainless, most of my friends suck at FPSs because they can't process the information on the screen fast enough. Between deciding if the person who just popped onto the screen is a friend or a foe, whether to run or shoot, where to shoot/run, what weapon to use - it's all a learned skill. Decent FPS players will identify their target and choose what to do in a split second, whereas some of my friends just go "AAAH! IT'S A GUY! DO I SHOOT HIM!?!?"
For a thinking shooter, you might like Red Orchestra. Not as large scale as Operation Flash Point, but more strategy than CoD4.
Edit: As for being brainless, most of my friends suck at FPSs because they can't process the information on the screen fast enough. Between deciding if the person who just popped onto the screen is a friend or a foe, whether to run or shoot, where to shoot/run, what weapon to use - it's all a learned skill. Decent FPS players will identify their target and choose what to do in a split second, whereas some of my friends just go "AAAH! IT'S A GUY! DO I SHOOT HIM!?!?"
This is exactly what nonlinear means in this context. The game usually lets you decide exactly how you want to complete the levels. The majority of FPSs since then have completely put you on rails and often make you feel like you're in some kind of assault course world that exists only for you to run through it. (haven't played Crysis yet and can't comment on that)
Granted, you can do better than this, but among FPSs, I can only think of a few other games in the last four years that have actually managed it. Considering what the norm among FPSs is these days, I'll take any nonlinearity I can get.
As for the checkpoints, they didn't really matter if you were using the quicksave functionality. I often missed some of those in the outdoor levels.
ZzZGuy
Golden Member
- Nov 15, 2006
- 1,855
- 0
- 0
I'm getting board of Point A to Point B shooters and such myself.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl is the most free form FPS that i can think of. One of my hobbies in the game is to collect the best guns and ammo, then equip my allies or neutral NPC's in areas under constant attack (sometimes replacing hand guns with AK-74's). You can see the results as you advance through the game and keep areas clear as well as upgrading the local NPC's weapons, where there where roaming packs of mutated dogs and constant bandit raids there are now groups of lone stalkers sitting by a camp fire singing songs.
But it is still linear in that there is a order in which you have to complete missions and the later areas are not accessible (IIRC) until you complete certain quests.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky (SoC prequel) is looking to be much more non linear, with all out 8 way faction warfare in which you can pick a side and see them to victory (possibly with a different ending each time), or you can go it alone. Lets just hope the release date of Q1 2008 holds true.
-edit- Looking at CP5670's post has given me a more clear idea of what i want in a non linear game. What I want to to go to point D, back track C, advance to E and ignore B. I can go ABCDE but I would like to be able to keep going in whatever direction i'm headed rather then doing a 180 and completely kill the mood.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl is the most free form FPS that i can think of. One of my hobbies in the game is to collect the best guns and ammo, then equip my allies or neutral NPC's in areas under constant attack (sometimes replacing hand guns with AK-74's). You can see the results as you advance through the game and keep areas clear as well as upgrading the local NPC's weapons, where there where roaming packs of mutated dogs and constant bandit raids there are now groups of lone stalkers sitting by a camp fire singing songs.
But it is still linear in that there is a order in which you have to complete missions and the later areas are not accessible (IIRC) until you complete certain quests.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky (SoC prequel) is looking to be much more non linear, with all out 8 way faction warfare in which you can pick a side and see them to victory (possibly with a different ending each time), or you can go it alone. Lets just hope the release date of Q1 2008 holds true.
-edit- Looking at CP5670's post has given me a more clear idea of what i want in a non linear game. What I want to to go to point D, back track C, advance to E and ignore B. I can go ABCDE but I would like to be able to keep going in whatever direction i'm headed rather then doing a 180 and completely kill the mood.
Who the fuck plays video games for intellectual stimulation? Go read some Kant if you want a challenge.
ZzZGuy
Golden Member
- Nov 15, 2006
- 1,855
- 0
- 0
You give them a better weapon and sometimes they will auto switch when you raise your weapon and sometimes you have to buy their old gun (becomes buyable when you give them a better gun). But i have noticed that when they carry a sawed off shot gun they will not switch, if it's a important NPC and sometimes for no reason i can find.
Could be better teamplay and fewer kiddies would make a difference for you. Perhaps joining a clan would help. I am kind of fed up with pilots bailing out just after I spawn in the heli, chatty squadmates, friendly-fire being off all the time, etc. America's Army was recommended to me because you can't just respawn. Some players seem pretty passionate about it as being more 'realistic', more of a sim.
BF2142, with its command structure (and which I love) can range from ultra-compelling to frustratingly crappy depending on who is playing. Getting your strategy down and working well as a team happens more in clan play. You might like to play commander, which you can still be a player on the field as well as designate targets, order squads. The titan mode can be pretty strategic.
But I know what you mean. Since it's Easter, maybe I'll go lay on the grass and look up at the clouds.
BF2142, with its command structure (and which I love) can range from ultra-compelling to frustratingly crappy depending on who is playing. Getting your strategy down and working well as a team happens more in clan play. You might like to play commander, which you can still be a player on the field as well as designate targets, order squads. The titan mode can be pretty strategic.
But I know what you mean. Since it's Easter, maybe I'll go lay on the grass and look up at the clouds.
The last thing I want to do when I get home from a long stressful day at the office getting my ass beat down every 15 minutes, is to go home and play some pain in the ass game that racks my then depleted intellect.
I *want* mindless entertainment. I *want* pretty graphics to stare at and drool over.
If I had no job and just sat around the house all day, then sure, maybe I'd spend time getting pissed about "brainless" games. Until then. No.
I *want* mindless entertainment. I *want* pretty graphics to stare at and drool over.
If I had no job and just sat around the house all day, then sure, maybe I'd spend time getting pissed about "brainless" games. Until then. No.
I don't think I ever said otherwise but yeah you're right, good visuals are pretty exciting and are a form of enjoyment all by themselves.
You answered your own question. There are plenty of games which require more thought, and you are welcome to play them.
Not everyone wants the extra complexity, so there will always be simple games, as well.
Maybe you should buy what you like, instead of what I like?
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