Brain hurts. Need advice

[ryanneedzhelp]

Ok heres the deal.. I'm building a system for pure Hi Def gaming and need advice on which rout to take.

The main reason for the upgrade is to play extremely high graphics on Age of conan hyborian adventures.

Problem: I was gonna go AMD 64 x2 6400+ but i keep seeing reviews on how the e6850 core2's are way better for gaming.. then i also read how lower versions are way cheaper and can be overclocked up to 3.6ghz and higher..

Original setup:
Mobo: AMD 580X Crossfire chipset
Proc: athlon 64 x2 6400 3.2ghz dualcore
Ram: 8ghz ddr2 800 dual channel
Video: 2 - radeon hd 3870 setup in crossfire mode
HD: 2 - Raptor x radeon hd 3870 10k rpm RAID 0
PSU: OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply
Monitor: Hi-Def LCD flat pannel of some type.
Windows vista ultimate 64mbit

I want the best possible performance in Gaming for that general price-range.. $2500ish

Can somone give me advice on a better setup..
im Fairly new to building comps. Ive built 1 so far with zero experience in overclocking or setting up in raid-0 etc.

Should i go pentium or amd?
SLI or Crossfire?
Best possible proc speed on a dual core?
also any noob friendly guides on how to use your suggested setup

Any general ideas on what mobo etc would be extremely helpful.
i wanna get this right the first time because im a poor college student that cannot afford to screw this one up.

Thanks in advance for any help i can get.

I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE IF THIS IS IN THE WRONG FORUM, NEW TO THIS COMMUNITY AND COULDNT FIND A BETTER PLACE.

 

[quadomatic]

I can really only give advice on the cheaper Intel route, since that's the way I went.

I would pick up a E2160 or E2180 and an IP35-E motherboard. Then, go pick up some ram from costcentral.com, for $3 a stick after rebate:
http://www.costcentral.com/pro...ail/HP/PX976AT/L49299/

I would stick with the HD3850 crossfire, or an 8800GT. But, you'll need a different motherboard if you're going to do HD3850 crossfire, since the IP35-E isn't crossfire enabled.

Others have recommended the Antec Earthwatts power supply:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=y&keyword1=earthwatts

Finally, if you're gaming, I'd dual boot Vista and XP, since games will probably run faster in XP.

Hopefully everyone else can be more helpful. If you decide not to go the cheap route, and judging on your price range, you won't, I suggest you go with one of the new Intel Wolfdale processor or one of the new Intel Quad Cores. The E8400 is supposed to retail for $185, but right now it's $220 at newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16819115037&Tpk=E8400

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

thanks i appreciate the advice but a few things to note real fast.

im going dualcore because most games dont will get same performance as a quad

vista because the intended game supports directx 10

Crossfire or SLI?

And do you think going a lower version of the dual core will allow better overclocking for a potential 3.6 - 3.8 ghz ?

 

[RussianSensation]

With your budget I'd probably pick up E8400 3.0ghz and overclock that on Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme, Xigmatek X1283, Tuniq Tower 120, etc. It should be good for 4.0ghz and will be much faster than the AMD X2 setup.

I'd personally go for 8800GT 512mb card and not SLI. With GF9 coming out this year, I wouldn't get an SLI setup. I know you can get 8800GTX and so forth but the price difference doesn't really justify the performance difference.

Since EVGA offers a step-up program for 90 days, if you still want to have the SLI option, get the NForce 7 chipset now and if GF9 comes out in the next 3 months, you'll upgrade to that card from your 8800 and buy another GF9.

8GB of ram is overkill. Get 2x2GB for now.

If you can fit it in your budget, I'd spend the difference on a 24 or a 30 inch monitor. Your eyes will appreciate this for many years to come.

That's a good power supply. I would also recommend Corsair 750 watt. It's $15 more after MIR but comes with a 5 year warranty vs. 3 year for OCZ and it's quieter. However, if you aren't going to SLI, a good quality 500-600 watt PSU will be sufficient.

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
With your budget I'd probably pick up E8400 3.0ghz and overclock that on Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme, Xigmatek X1283, Tuniq Tower 120, etc. It should be good for 4.0ghz and will be much faster than the AMD X2 setup.

I'd personally go for 8800GT 512mb card and not SLI. With GF9 coming out this year, I wouldn't get an SLI setup. I know you can get 8800GTX and so forth but the price difference doesn't really justify the performance difference.

Since EVGA offers a step-up program for 90 days, if you still want to have the SLI option, get the NForce 7 chipset now and if GF9 comes out in the next 3 months, you'll upgrade to that card from your 8800 and buy another GF9.

8GB of ram is overkill. Get 2x2GB for now.

If you can fit it in your budget, I'd spend the difference on a 24 or a 30 inch monitor. Your eyes will appreciate this for many years to come.

That's a good power supply. I would also recommend Corsair 750 watt. It's $15 more after MIR but comes with a 5 year warranty vs. 3 year for OCZ and it's quieter. However, if you aren't going to SLI, a good quality 500-600 watt PSU will be sufficient.

Thanks a ton you are my savior.
Can i ask why you would prefer not going SLI im fairly inexperienced at building computers (only built 1)
Also. is this mobo you recommend Nice for Overclocking the e8400?

 

[quadomatic]

Originally posted by: ryanneedzhelp

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
With your budget I'd probably pick up E8400 3.0ghz and overclock that on Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme, Xigmatek X1283, Tuniq Tower 120, etc. It should be good for 4.0ghz and will be much faster than the AMD X2 setup.

I'd personally go for 8800GT 512mb card and not SLI. With GF9 coming out this year, I wouldn't get an SLI setup. I know you can get 8800GTX and so forth but the price difference doesn't really justify the performance difference.

Since EVGA offers a step-up program for 90 days, if you still want to have the SLI option, get the NForce 7 chipset now and if GF9 comes out in the next 3 months, you'll upgrade to that card from your 8800 and buy another GF9.

8GB of ram is overkill. Get 2x2GB for now.

If you can fit it in your budget, I'd spend the difference on a 24 or a 30 inch monitor. Your eyes will appreciate this for many years to come.

That's a good power supply. I would also recommend Corsair 750 watt. It's $15 more after MIR but comes with a 5 year warranty vs. 3 year for OCZ and it's quieter. However, if you aren't going to SLI, a good quality 500-600 watt PSU will be sufficient.

Thanks a ton you are my savior.
Can i ask why you would prefer not going SLI im fairly inexperienced at building computers (only built 1)
Also. is this mobo you recommend Nice for Overclocking the e8400?

I'm not sure what he meant by no SLI. I'm guessing he meant that you shouldn't buy 2 8800GTs, as opposed to not buying an SLI moterhboard. With the GeForce 9 series coming out, it wouldn't be worth dumping $500 on two 8800GTs when the 9 series cards will be much faster.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

@OP: Why do you think you need either SLI or Crossfire? What size will your monitor be?

If you have a 22" or smalled LCD, I doubt SLI/Crossfire would be needed. I believe for almost all games (excepting Crysis, of course) will run OK with a 8800GT on a 24".

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: ryanneedzhelp

Can i ask why you would prefer not going SLI im fairly inexperienced at building computers (only built 1)
Also. is this mobo you recommend Nice for Overclocking the e8400?

There are several problems with SLI/Crossfire:

Less important:

1) Increased power => more heat inside the case and in your room.
2) Because of #1, that means you have to spend more on a power supply
3) Increased noise from 2 graphics cards
4) Motherboards that support dual cards cost more $

More important:

1) Performance does not scale 100%
2) In some games where the drivers have not been optimized a dual SLI/Crossfire setup might be only 10-30% faster, or none at all (while the cost of such a setup is 2x)
3) Increased instability related to drivers
4) Sooner or a later a faster card comes out that offers the same performance for less $ and more features, without the performance scaling issues.

So far it would look like this:

Heatsink:
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 - $37 or
ZEROtherm Nirvana NV120 - $35 or
the more high end Tuniq Tower - $46 and TRUE 120 - $56
The Tuniq is hard to install and Thermalright requires a separate fan. Therefore depending on how much you want to spend the former 2 coolers provide better value.

CPU Cooler Benchmarks

Any cooler with delta under 20*C at 150W is really good.

Thermal compound: Tuniq TX-2 - $9

Motherboard:

Without SLI I would get something like:

Abit IP35 Pro - $150
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R - $130
MSI P35 Platinum - $125

As far as SLI boards go, I'd ask someone who is using such a board with their experience and overclocking to 500FSB. I recommended Nforce 750 simply because it's priced reasonably at $150 (asus version for example). The 780 chipset is priced a lot higher without many real benefits other than tripple SLI.

Processor: E8400 retail - $210 (If you plan to keep your system for a while, might make sense to wait for 45nm Q9450)

Graphics card:
EVGA 8800GT stock $240 - cheapest with 90 day step-up
8800GTS OC - $280 - a faster card for slightly more $

Hard drives:
Instead of going RAID i'd probably get a Raptor for the OS/Programs and a large hard drive for Data. So 150 + 500/750 gig. Seagates have 5 year warranty. If you want a quieter drive (probably not since you want a loud raptor!) Samsung drives like SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB - $110 (or the newer Samsung F1 series) are good.

Memory: Most PC6400 memory will overclock to DDR900 (that's 450x9 for E8400). But if you don't want to take additional risk with the ram and if you want to go safely beyond 4.0ghz, then it might make sense to get DDR2-1000+ (Although a lot of good DDR2 kits can easily get to 1000mhz as well).

The price difference isn't that high now so say:
GSKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 CL5 - $115

There are a lot of memory deals that pop up on SlickDeals.net.

Note 1: Don't worry about DDR3 - it's largely overpriced without benefits today
Note 2: If you get Nforce 6 or 7 motherboard (for SLI), then you can safely get DDR2-800 ram since you can overclock while keeping the ram speed constant.

Power Supply:

With a single graphics card, something like:
Corsair CMPSU-520HX - $90 is good OR if you want more power they have the 620/750 versions. Other good brands for power supplies are the OCZ you mentioned, Seasonic, PC Power & Cooling, FSP Group FX Series FX760-E. But with a single graphics card, more than 600 watts is overkill.

Screen: Westinghouse L2410NM Black 24" 8ms - this looks good for the $. It seems to be using an MVA panel it says not a TN (cheaper) panel of most 24 inchers.

For the monitor I'd start a separate thread though as there are tons of people a lot more qualified than me to give better advice that use 24 inch monitors/30 inch monitors. I personally decided to get a larger screen with lower resolution (1920x1080) vs. 1920x1200 for 24 and 2560x1600 for 30 inch. But obviously higher resolution provides more viewing "within" the game and crisper detail at the expense of size of the image in front of you.

Case:

Case is a personal preference item. If you want lighter (aluminum), full case tower vs. mid-tower, case window vs. none, lights vs. utalitarian look? It depends.

I like this:

Thermaltake VD1000SWA Silver Aluminum - $70 - good value
Antec 900 - $80 - Large and lots of airflow, good value
LIAN LI PC-60BPLUSII W Black Aluminum - $130 - A classic look
Antec P182SE Silver Mirror-finished $180 - bling factor

Are you big on sound? Sound card + speakers?

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

ok so say i went with a 30" hi-def LCD monitor..

and the 30% increase of performance is enough motivation for me..

i wanted the e8400 overclocked to 4.0 ghz

And vista for directx10

What setup should i go with

Motherboard:
Processor: e8400 overclocked
Ram: ddr2 800 or ddr3 ?
Video card: Nvidia or ati? which?
Powersupply: corsair 620hx? SLI compatible needed or no?
Case: sounds stupid but what would you recommend? cooling options or w\e
Monitor: hi-def 30" flatscreen
Harddrive: 2 raptor 10k rpm RAID-0
Vista: what version? 32 or 64mbit? ultimate?

 

[MTDEW]

Heres a start.

Mobo : Abit Ip35 Pro LINK
CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale LINK
CPU Heatsink+Fan : Tuniq Tower 120 LINK
RAM : G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 LINK
Video Card : 512mb G92 EVGA 8800GTS LINK
CASE : COOLER MASTER Stacker RC-832 LINK
PSU : Corsair 620HX LINK

Vista 64bit to take full advantage of all your memory. :thumbsup:

 

[olmer]

Just how environmentally friendly you want your PC to be?

If ?HD? is 1080p I currently run a very quiet HTPC setup (good for movies as well) from which is the case is the most expensive component ? Asus P5K-VM, E6600@ 3.0, 4GB of 800Mhz, 2x500GB WD KS (actually quieter than Samsung 500LJ, which was vibrating too much), 8800GT OC in Antec Fusion (its own 430W PSU).

Cooling by stock fins/suspended on rubber 80mm PWM (glued to the cover) and stripped off 8800GT with constant 7v modded 80mm glued on top of the original fins. Barely audible from 2m+. Plays all but Crysis at highest on 42? Sharp 1080p 1:1 PM @60Hz.

If no compromise setup you are after go for oc-happy x38/x48 mobo + 1x 3870 (get second if needed, wait how 3870x2 pans out), suitable CPU/memory combination for stable ocing depending on your budget - see relevant thread and spacious case to your taste. Do not save on PSU.

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

thx a ton very helpful but still unsure of 1 thing..

if i wantd to SLI or crossfire Would this mobo work for both? Crossfire in particular. if so what cards for crossfire?
Mobo Link

Also do you think this mobo can easily overclock the e8400 to 4.0ghz?

which is better, SLI or Crossfire?
i read somwhere SLI needs drivers for each game where Crossfire doesnt..

Edit: Quiet doesnt matter.. and i want to be able to run Crysis on its highest settings.. hope this helps..

Also the game ill be playing mostly is Age of conan which has a similar engine to Oblivion..
Way Better Graphics though

 

[MTDEW]

no, its SLI only.
You can only get one or the other, a crossfire motherboard or an Sli motherboard.

So, its up to you to decide to go ATi or Nvidia first before choosing a motherboard.

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

Originally posted by: MTDEW
no, its SLI only.
You can only get one or the other, a crossfire motherboard or an Sli motherboard.

So, its up to you to decide to go ATi or Nvidia first before choosing a motherboard.

Which would you go? which is best for e8400 overclocking?
im thinkin SLI and if so how good is that bored for what im wanting?

 

[MTDEW]

Id go sli if i HAD to choose between the two.

But im like most here, i dont think the crossfire or sli is worth it. (ive had both before)

I personally would go with a single video card , then upgrade it when the new ones come out.
And i'd got with the Evga 512mb 8800GTS as i listed above.

Just so you know, Crysis benefits VERY LITTLE in crossfire or sli over a single card.
As a matter of fact it "stutters" more in spots with dual video vards.

If you REALLY want sli / crossfire performance , then id still go with the Abit ip35 Pro i listed above and then i'd check out the "new" cards that are being released that are "two cards in one" so to speak.
Ati has the 3870 X2 coming out.
And Nvidia has the 9800GX2 coming out soon also.

 

[MTDEW]

Oh and if you're really set on it (SLI), That EVGA 780i board you listed is a good choice. :thumbsup:

 

[aigomorla]

http://www.motherboardpro.com/...-Video-Card-p-515.html


have 2 of those and its absolute pwnage. :T

Originally posted by: MTDEW

Ati has the 3870 X2 coming out.
And Nvidia has the 9800GX2 coming out soon also.

i have 2 coming to me soon. :T Look at the link above.

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

Thanks!

Hopefully i got everything i need.. 1 last thing..

Critique this plz. i plan on upgrading the vid cards once some hardcore versions come out.. price doesnt matter. just Critique the compatibility.. if this is a hardcore gaming machine.. and if the Processor and vid cards can be overclocked well with this setup. CPU to 4.0ghz etc.


Mobo Link
mobo: EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale overclocked to 4ghz
Video Card : 512mb G92 EVGA 8800GTS SLI mode
PSU : Corsair 620HX
CPU Heatsink+Fan : Tuniq Tower 120
Ram: 2x2ghz DDR2 1200
CASE : COOLER MASTER Stacker RC-832
OS - Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate
monitor - 30" hi-def lcd
Mouse - Logitech MX518 2-Tone 8 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB + PS/2 Wired Optical 1600 dpi Gaming-Grade Mouse
keyboard - Logitech G11 Silver & Black 104 Normal Keys 29 Function Keys USB Standard Gaming Keyboard
Harddrive: 2x Raptor 10k rpm Raid0

Good? no? hopefully this will get me on my way to buying what i need..

 

[MTDEW]

Nice setup.
Looks good.
I think its better to sli two 512mb 8800GTS cards then to buy one of the new single "X2" cards.
Because if you want to upgrade later, you can sell the 512mb 8800GTS cards easier.

And just to be 100% sure, ask in the mobo forum if the ram you are getting runs well with the Evga 780i board.
Some ram just doesnt overclock as well on some boards, so its best to be sure they like each other...LOL

 

[ryanneedzhelp]

Thanks a ton for all the advice. gonna go check mobo forums for memory compatibility..

Everyone has helped me a ton.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: ryanneedzhelp
Thanks!

Hopefully i got everything i need.. 1 last thing..

Critique this plz. i plan on upgrading the vid cards once some hardcore versions come out.. price doesnt matter. just Critique the compatibility.. if this is a hardcore gaming machine.. and if the Processor and vid cards can be overclocked well with this setup. CPU to 4.0ghz etc.


Mobo Link
mobo: EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale overclocked to 4ghz
Video Card : 512mb G92 EVGA 8800GTS SLI mode
PSU : Corsair 620HX
CPU Heatsink+Fan : Tuniq Tower 120
Ram: 2x2ghz DDR2 1200
CASE : COOLER MASTER Stacker RC-832
OS - Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate
monitor - 30" hi-def lcd
Mouse - Logitech MX518 2-Tone 8 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB + PS/2 Wired Optical 1600 dpi Gaming-Grade Mouse
keyboard - Logitech G11 Silver & Black 104 Normal Keys 29 Function Keys USB Standard Gaming Keyboard
Harddrive: 2x Raptor 10k rpm Raid0

Good? no? hopefully this will get me on my way to buying what i need..

Okey my honest advice is to screw nvidia completely. Why?

Because i had a very bad experience with the 680i. The 780i i hear is the same with some slight tweeks. NO ONE has yet to stress the board to tell enough info on how well it does long term. If its anything like the 680i your in for long nights of trouble shooting.

1. Using the same store i linked the 3870X2 @ look up DFI LP LT X38-T2R THAT is the board you want for a high end overclocking gaming machine.

2. Forget SLI. Xfire scales better, and the X2's offer almost 2x the performance as a HD3870. If you add 1 more, it will easily beat a SLI setup using 2 8800Ultras.

3. Why you getting such expensive ram? Do you honestly think your going to hit 600FSB on your processor? Dude you want a stable 4ghz rig, you go intel. NOT NVIDIA.

445x9 = 4ghz. Means at 1:1 ratio your ram needs to do at least 990mhz. Find crucial Ballastix DDR2 800, and overclock the ram. Also the EVGA doesnt NEED fast ram, you clock the ram independantly. So dont waste money on such expensive sticks.

OMG all this high end hardware and your skimping on a Tier 1 PSU?

LOOK UP PCnC Silencer 750
ETASIS 750W or 850W
Silverstone ZEUS 750 or 850 <--- make sure it says ZEUS and not OLYMPUS or STRIDER.

Hard drives.
To be honest, 4 7200RPM SATA 200gigers in RAID0 > 2 Raptors in Raid0

Im running 4 raptors. :T


Yeah i know im telling you to redue your entire list. But trust me, ive built enough high end machines to know which parts are better then others.

 

[MTDEW]

And just so you know ryanneedzhelp,
I am a bit biased too...LOL
Heres my pc.

Vista 64 Ultimate
Abit IP35-E
Q6600 @ 3.4ghz
8gb GSkill DDR2 1000
Evga 512mb 8800GTS
Creative X-Fi Xtreme music soundcard
Two 320gb Seagate Perpendicular drives.
One 500gb Western digital drive
Saitek Eclipse Keybaord
razer Copperhead mouse
Logitech 5500 spkrs
CM staker 832 case
Pioneer 111d 16x dvd burner
42" LCD


My "backup" pc
Winxp 32 / Vista 64 (dualboot)
Gigabyte 9659-DS3
e6600 @ 3.4ghz
4gb Corsair DDR2 800
Evga 8800GT 512mb
Antec 900 case
Crative X-FI Xtreme music soundcard
Two 320gb Seagate perpendiclar drives
Logitech Keyboard
Logitech mouse
Klipsh Promedia 4.1 speakers
Pioneer 111D 16x DVD burner
Dell 2405fpw 24inch lcd


Ans you should see my wifes pc, shes a pc gamer too!
No wonder we are always poor...LOL

And YES, you read right, i have 8gb of ram in my "main rig", ram is so cheap, you're darn right i maxed it out, and Vista Flies with this much ram!
Some say 8gb is a waste, well everything is a waste if you really think about it too much.
My goal is to enjoy myself b4 i die and not waste time second guessing every move i make.



aigomorla,
Yeah, i dont blame ya for being mad at Nvidia, you guys got screwed on the 680i boards!

 

[MTDEW]

I may not agree with aigomorla's video card choice but..

Dude you want a stable 4ghz rig, you go intel. NOT NVIDIA.

That i agree with TOTALLY, Nvidia makes good graphics cards, but their motherbards can get "flaky" with certain configurations.

 

[taltamir]

its a choice... do you want to OC your CPU more? then go with an intel mobo and get crossfire.
You want to get faster video cards? then OC your CPU a little less and get an nvidia mobo with SLI.

Personally the second option makes more sense. Because the higher end games are all video card limited. So two 8800GTS in SLI with an E8400 @ 3.5-3.8ghz will give you more in games then two 3870 in xfire with E4800 @4ghz

 

[nyker96]

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Heres a start.

Mobo : Abit Ip35 Pro LINK
CPU : Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale LINK
CPU Heatsink+Fan : Tuniq Tower 120 LINK
RAM : G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 1000 LINK
Video Card : 512mb G92 EVGA 8800GTS LINK
CASE : COOLER MASTER Stacker RC-832 LINK
PSU : Corsair 620HX LINK

Vista 64bit to take full advantage of all your memory. :thumbsup:

second this except for case you can also consider P182 gun metal which I recently got and love it! spacious and cool running. As for gcard, 2x 8800GT 512 in SLI is probably stronger for hi def gaming. of course that means you should get a SLI capable bpard to go with this. Other than that, the above items are pretty top notch!