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BP to put $20 Billion into an escrow account as the President demanded

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The company man runs the rig and calls the shots. The company man works for the company that owns the well and is paying for the drilling (hence the name "company man"). The company man, from what info we have so far, called for unsafe actions do to time delays.

Wanna guess who the company man works for?

From what I've read (which may be complete bullshit, journalism being a joke) of the last argument, the BP man overruled the TransOcean men, one of whom died and one of whom was injured and required medical evacuation. That certainly seems to indicate that BP was responsible, although we'll have to wait and see where the final apportionment falls.

Just goes to show that no boss should make you do things that can potentially kill you, or others. Sometimes you have to say no even to the boss man.
 
Probably, but losing twenty billion is at the least a powerful incentive to NOT skip any possible safety measures for the next well. That's got to be worth something.

Exactly. The reason BP is doing this is because their stock price is getting HAMMERED. Perception again at work... If they can save face to the American public they can get back to making money hand over fist. What they are shitting their pants on is the fear of a takeover at this point. They have been ripe for sometime. If they get devalued any more expect then to get gobbled!
 
and put thousands more throughout the country out of work? probably 10's of 1000's.

Jobs change as the needs for those jobs change. This is the mentality that keeps the military growing and growing with no real need for such large standing armies. States that have lots of jobs in the military sector cry the same cry whenever a missile system, or a boondoggle jet or some other useless piece of equipment ends up being made when its not really necessary.

I have changed jobs and careers about six times. A few times it was by choice, a few times it was by circumstance. Circumstances are such that maybe just maybe we need to rethink current paradigms...

Its funny people didn't yell loud enough when corporate America outsourced millions of jobs over the last 30 years.

Finally are the oil workers jobs more important than the tourism jobs and the seafood industry jobs?
 
Jobs change as the needs for those jobs change.

Its funny people didn't yell loud enough when corporate America outsourced millions of jobs over the last 30 years.

Finally are the oil workers jobs more important than the tourism jobs and the seafood industry jobs?

this is not the same as another restaurant opening up across town and taking business, or even an electric car company taking people from a traditional car company. The town i live in relies, probably 10 to 15% on the work BP has around us, along with all the rest of the operators here.

are the jobs more important? absolutely not.
should work to keep jobs here, and the tourism/fishing/oil jobs in the gulf? absolutely! all the people down there should get whats coming to them, and probably more.
If something is done and we loose a large portion of our entire towns income, we will not get a dime, because we are oil workers and people think we are the scum of the earth. In reality we work our collective butts off so that you can heat your home cheaply and have hot water and gas to cook with.

we need to hold companies and governments responsible, but we don't have to be stupid about it. we do not need knee-jerk, ill informed reactions.

I am a young guy, but i do know what it is like to work, i used to work in the residential construction industry, times do change and now i work in the middle of the desert, more hours a week than most work in 3 helping the gas and oil make its way to your house

just how is Carmel these days? lots of nice new Audie's and Lexus's running on our oil?
 
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this is not the same as another restaurant opening up across town and taking business, or even an electric car company taking people from a traditional car company. The town i live in relies, probably 10 to 15% on the work BP has around us, along with all the rest of the operators here.

are the jobs more important? absolutely not.
should work to keep jobs here, and the tourism/fishing/oil jobs in the gulf? absolutely! all the people down there should get whats coming to them, and probably more.
If something is done and we loose a large portion of our entire towns income, we will not get a dime, because we are oil workers and people think we are the scum of the earth. In reality we work our collective butts off so that you can heat your home cheaply and have hot water and gas to cook with.

we need to hold companies and governments responsible, but we don't have to be stupid about it. we do not need knee-jerk, ill informed reactions.

I am a young guy, but i do know what it is like to work, i used to work in the residential construction industry, times do change and now i work in the middle of the desert, more hours a week than most work in 3 helping the gas and oil make its way to your house

just how is Carmel these days? lots of nice new Audie's and Lexus's running on our oil?

The only thing your oil does is make your state revenue from the lease and give your people jobs. Oil is a fungible resource sold on the open market. Any oil drilled in the US doesnt automatically go into the strategic oil reserve or into americans gas tanks. If all oil production was stopped in the us the price of oil internationally and here in the US would not go up more than 3-5 percent.

Whats funny about the knee jerk comment is that conservation and protecting our environment is not knee jerk, it was a cause championed by one of our greatest presidents, Teddy Roosevelt.

I truly feel for the people that work in the oil industry here in the US. My wife's grandfather was an oil man for shell back in the day. Before he died we talked about the state of oil here in the us and he compared it to the steel industry....dying and soon dead......
 
knee jerk reactions are stopping all drilling without consulting experts, this decision could easily bite us as it is more dangerous to cap a well than it is to drill a well (as we well know even better today) and then, in the future, we will drill those caps out without really knowing whats under them and create even more chances for disaster

not knee jerk is setting booms and putting out/starting a fire depending on the desired outcome of said fire.

the only thing anything does is give the state revenue and pay people money!

and natural gas prices in the US would go up tremendously, to levels you can't imagine if we stopped drilling in the US. you would be back to burning coal to heat your house.

when you buy a barrel of oil on the open market all you get is a barrel of oil on the end of a pipeline, no matter who got it or where it came from, but you are pretty good to guess that it came from the end of that pipe line, and i happen to know what direction the pipelines go..... most ends up in Chicago then the east coast still as crude though, it all gets mixed up at the refineries. so pretty much anywhere you are you have a drop or 2 or ours. plus, i can nearly guarantee that the gas your house is using is from these fields, as they are some of the most productive in the world.
 
From what I've read (which may be complete bullshit, journalism being a joke) of the last argument, the BP man overruled the TransOcean men, one of whom died and one of whom was injured and required medical evacuation. That certainly seems to indicate that BP was responsible, although we'll have to wait and see where the final apportionment falls.

From what I understand so far you are pretty spot on. This was caused mostly by human failure and not so much equipment failure but thats just my opinion, still way to early to know for sure. However, we do know that the company man made some real bad decisions that led up to the disaster.

Just goes to show that no boss should make you do things that can potentially kill you, or others. Sometimes you have to say no even to the boss man.

In theory the owners and operators of the rig have the authority to say no to the company man. In reality the company man "writes the checks" so to speak, in all of my experience on rigs what the company man says goes. Period. That is just the way it works out there in the field, which is why I am advocating putting a government employed retired oil field engineer on each deepwater rig, there are 33 so hire 66 engineers and they work shifts of 7 on and 7 off, who has the authority to override everyone. If he sees an unsafe operation then he shuts the rig down or orders them to take other measures and he has the ability to fine the ever loving shit out of them. His only interest is making sure that the drilling procedures are done as safely as possible. That would beat the hell out of any regulations you can come up with and from what we know as of now would probably have prevented this accident from occurring.
 
Finally are the oil workers jobs more important than the tourism jobs and the seafood industry jobs?

At least in our case, those are our 3 main industries and they are all in the same area. Two have already been killed off, killing the 3rd will just be another kick in the nuts that will put the deathnail in towns and cities across the coast.

BP owns a big ass refinery down here in partnership with Conoco Phillips, not sure how seizing that would work but as far as the leases, they can't drill anyway. Most of the deepwater rigs are preparing to move to other countries as we speak and if that happens the undeveloped leases are a non issue for years to come. Existing leases that are producing can easily be sold to other companies (that would be one hellofa deal too, I would love to buy a well that is already completely setup and pumping oil to the refinery with all the infrastructure already in place. group buy anyone??). If we were to lift the moratorium rigs currently contracted to BP would quickly sign contracts with the new lease owners and continue drilling as long as we can resell the lease rights quickly enough and it isn't held up in court. Even then, I am sure we can figure out somewhere else in the Gulf for the rigs to drill while that is settled but if the moratorium remains in effect its a moot point.

Not sure how you go about transferring ownership of an entire refinery and all of its infrastructure seamlessly though, especially their Houston refinery. I am assuming you could sell Conoco BP's share of the one in Belle Chasse and it could keep on running. OTOH, if you can't change ownership without keeping them producing at their current rate the country could be in for some hurt at the pump. I don't think we have a ton of excess refining capability to take them down and deal with normal safety shutdowns and slowdowns or god forbid an accident at another facility.

Shrug, Fuck BP. I don't necessarily agree with some of the things suggested in this thread but you won't see me shedding a tear over it or fighting to help the bastards (said with a posh British accent).
 
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In theory the owners and operators of the rig have the authority to say no to the company man. In reality the company man "writes the checks" so to speak, in all of my experience on rigs what the company man says goes. Period. That is just the way it works out there in the field, which is why I am advocating putting a government employed retired oil field engineer on each deepwater rig, there are 33 so hire 66 engineers and they work shifts of 7 on and 7 off, who has the authority to override everyone. If he sees an unsafe operation then he shuts the rig down or orders them to take other measures and he has the ability to fine the ever loving shit out of them. His only interest is making sure that the drilling procedures are done as safely as possible. That would beat the hell out of any regulations you can come up with and from what we know as of now would probably have prevented this accident from occurring.

I really like that idea, except I'd say hire roughly 145. Since those rigs work 24/7 let two engineers work a 7 day shift, 12 hours on and 12 off. That way the company can't decide controversial matters or run important tests when the engineer is sleeping. (I say 145 because you'd need some floating engineers to handle vacations, sick days and such.) We'd also need shorebound support staff, supervisors, qualified divers, technical specialists, etc. so the whole thing is going to be pretty expensive. But there's also some fat in MMS that can go away, for instance flying an engineer out to the rig to ask if a test has been done and collecting the government's paperwork saying so is quite expensive as well.
 
The only thing your oil does is make your state revenue from the lease and give your people jobs. Oil is a fungible resource sold on the open market. Any oil drilled in the US doesnt automatically go into the strategic oil reserve or into americans gas tanks. If all oil production was stopped in the us the price of oil internationally and here in the US would not go up more than 3-5 percent.

I would be willing to wager that almost all oil produced in the Gulf goes into American gas tanks. I would also be willing to wager that almost all oil produced in the states goes into American gas tanks. We do export petroleum products but mostly to Mexico because they don't have the refining capabilities. They sell us a shitload of oil and in return we refine some of it and sell it back to them.

It is simply an economic reason. It is cheaper to pump the oil into existing pipeline infrastructure and straight to the refineries than it is to pump it onto a ship and send it elsewhere.

Whats funny about the knee jerk comment is that conservation and protecting our environment is not knee jerk, it was a cause championed by one of our greatest presidents, Teddy Roosevelt.

I truly feel for the people that work in the oil industry here in the US. My wife's grandfather was an oil man for shell back in the day. Before he died we talked about the state of oil here in the us and he compared it to the steel industry....dying and soon dead......

The oil industry has been BOOMING. At one point when oil was cheap as hell it was in a state of decline and it hasn't been doing all that well lately but over the last decade its been booming. The 33 (nearly 1/4 of the entire worlds supply) deepwater rigs currently operating in the Gulf is proof. As far as protecting our environment, stopping drilling doesn't really do that.

A few 100 miles from the oil spill is this place called Port Fourchon and it is home to the LOOP (Louisiana Offshore Oil Port). It is the only port in the United States that is capable of servicing and offloading VLCCs and ULCCS (Very large and Ultra Large Crude Carriers) which is how we will be receiving any additional oil we have to import. Our neighbors to the north and south are already selling us all they can spare and shipping it through pipelines. Everything else has to come by boat and those supertankers I mentioned above carry 2-3 MILLION barrels of crude. Every additional ship you require to enter the Gulf raises the risk that something can go wrong and we can have a spill every bit as bad as this one (potentially much worse). Then you have the entire national security thing and being drug into wars to protect our oil supply that I have outlined in many other threads.

We haven't had an accident like this in the Gulf ever and we have thousands upon thousands of wells and even more holes drilled. Drilling can be done safely and in an environmentally friendly way, the gang of 66 plan is the best I have heard at ensuring that happens.

Mark my words, we will still consume just as much oil and if our economy is growing we will consume even more. We can either try to keep as much money here in the states and create as many jobs as possible in a safe manner, or we can increase our risk of fighting more wars to protect our oil supplies that come from unstable regions (and can not replace, regardless of what you think). You don't think we have fought two wars in the mid east because we like the people over there or something? You don't think we are so nice to Saudi Arabia because they are our best buds do you? I wonder if Mexico (Our 2nd largest supplier of petroleum) has better regulations and enforcement agencies (like the EPA) than we do? Or do you only care about OUR environment and think that we should push others to drill for more oil and potentially fuck their environment up so you can have that fancy computer, cell phone, go-go juice for your car, nat gas for your electricity, fertilizer for your food, etc....

Like it or not we need oil to get us another 20 years down the road maybe 30. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to transition off of oil as a transportation fuel in that time if we try (and eventually we will, might not be this year or next but eventually we will). We should have spent the stimulus on upgrading the grid, that would have been a huge step in putting the infrastructure in place that will likely be required for the transition (not to mention distributed power, less wasted electricity and a host of other benefits) but we didn't. Now it will likely be a much much slower process due to the sheer cost of rebuilding most of the nations electrical infrastructure.
 
I really like that idea, except I'd say hire roughly 145. Since those rigs work 24/7 let two engineers work a 7 day shift, 12 hours on and 12 off. That way the company can't decide controversial matters or run important tests when the engineer is sleeping. (I say 145 because you'd need some floating engineers to handle vacations, sick days and such.) We'd also need shorebound support staff, supervisors, qualified divers, technical specialists, etc. so the whole thing is going to be pretty expensive. But there's also some fat in MMS that can go away, for instance flying an engineer out to the rig to ask if a test has been done and collecting the government's paperwork saying so is quite expensive as well.

I thought that 66 would be plenty, like I said they would also have the ability to fine the shit out of the company. If the inspector wakes up to find an important decision had been made behind his back the company gets slapped with a 5 million dollar fine (I figure the fine should be 10 times the daily cost of operating the rig, wanna save a day of drilling time its gonna cost ya 10 times as much) and you got a real unhappy inspector that you gotta live with. Nothing worse than a pissed off oil man who has the ability to make your life hell AND cost you a small fortune. But sure, increase the number if you want, that is just details.

As far as divers and the rest, I don't think that is that necessary. They are drilling in water way to deep to dive in, technical specialist when needed can be farmed out to private companies. Don't know how much support those guys will need but I can't imagine much that isn't already in place. I still think we should make the industry purchase and retrofit a rig that is designed to do exactly what the drilling rig out there is doing now, cap the well with a device that is already engineered and waiting (in lieu of the hasitly designed and built stuff they are currently using) and a team of the best blow out and well containment specialists we have ready to respond almost immediately. The last part would be costly but if you make the entire industry pay for it then it wouldn't hurt em too bad.
 
this is not the same as another restaurant opening up across town and taking business, or even an electric car company taking people from a traditional car company. The town i live in relies, probably 10 to 15% on the work BP has around us, along with all the rest of the operators here.

are the jobs more important? absolutely not.
should work to keep jobs here, and the tourism/fishing/oil jobs in the gulf? absolutely! all the people down there should get whats coming to them, and probably more.
If something is done and we loose a large portion of our entire towns income, we will not get a dime, because we are oil workers and people think we are the scum of the earth. In reality we work our collective butts off so that you can heat your home cheaply and have hot water and gas to cook with.

we need to hold companies and governments responsible, but we don't have to be stupid about it. we do not need knee-jerk, ill informed reactions.

I am a young guy, but i do know what it is like to work, i used to work in the residential construction industry, times do change and now i work in the middle of the desert, more hours a week than most work in 3 helping the gas and oil make its way to your house

just how is Carmel these days? lots of nice new Audie's and Lexus's running on our oil?

If BP loses the license somebody else will pick it up. Same amount of workers, different company. BFD.
 
Some major help in cleaning-up the mess was denied for stupid reasons Obama could have erased in 5 minutes


"Three days after the Gulf oil rig explosion, the Netherlands offered to send in oil skimmers to pump oil off of the surface of the ocean. The Obama Administration turned them down because they were not 100% efficient and small amounts of oil would be pumped back into the Gulf with the excess water. EPA regulations do not allow for residue water to contain any oil. So rather than use equipment that was not 100% efficient the Obama Administration chose to let all of the oil run into the Gulf."

"The U.S. Government has apparently reconsidered a Dutch offer to supply 4 oil skimmers. These are large arms that are attached to oil tankers that pump oil and water from the surface of the ocean into the tanker. Water pumped into the tanker will settle to the bottom of the tanker and is then pumped back into the ocean to make room for more oil. Each system will collect 5,000 tons of oil each day.


One ton of oil is about 7.3 barrels. 5,000 tons per day is 36,500 barrels per day. 4 skimmers have a capacity of 146,000 barrels per day. That is much greater than the high end estimate of the leak. The skimmers work best in calm water, which is the usual condition this time of year in the gulf."

"As of June 8th, BP reported that they have collected 64,650 barrels of oil in the Gulf. That is only a fraction of the amount of oil spilled from the well. That is less than one day’s rated capacity of the Dutch oil skimmers."

Admin turned down a British offer for help because of "paperwork."

Obama = functional Nero


http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2010...des-to-accept-dutch-offer-to-help-with-spill/

Sometimes I'm inspired to print out your posts Danube, invent a time machine, travel back to before your conception and offer your mom a contraceptive and the printout of your posts.

Let's travel down a path called "logic"

a) A total of 4 skimmers
b) A spill 5,000ft below the surface of the ocean
c) An oil slick around 1,000+ square miles large.
d) A Claim that 4 skimmers could collect twice the amount of oil per day that is being leaked.

Gentlemen I offer that one skimmer that is conducting burns could burn all the oil spilling from the spill. It's so simple; theoretically you could burn an infinite amount of oil in a day given enough oxygen and surface area. Therefore all they have to do is magically make sure all the oil from 1,500M below the surface arrives right in the middle of the burn booms and bingo!!!! no more disaster, why haven’t we thought of this before!!!!!!!!!!!

I imagine the EPA turned down these skimmers because using the density difference of oil/water fucking fails when the oil is emulsified. It's the reason burn booms are used and Kevin Costner's magical machine is nothing but a joke. These four skimmers would provide nearly no additional benefit to the cleanup. I really hope they do an honest tally of true oil collected now that they are being deployed due to retarded sensationalism. That way when its shown they only contributed to the emulsification of the oil/water mixture and collected maybe a couple hundred barrels of oil I can laugh at all the political hacks who have shit for brains on this forum.
 
Sometimes I'm inspired to print out your posts Danube, invent a time machine, travel back to before your conception and offer your mom a contraceptive and the printout of your posts.

...

What's even more disturbing with his blatant trolling:

"Three days after the Gulf oil rig explosion, the Netherlands offered to send in oil skimmers to pump oil off of the surface of the ocean. The Obama Administration turned them down ... So rather than use equipment that was not 100% efficient the Obama Administration chose to let all of the oil run into the Gulf."

Three days after the Deepwater explosion and sinking, oil on the surface was a residual mix of fuel and oil from the rig itself, and remotely operated vehicles and sonar equipment did not show crude emanating from the rig's wellhead.

And there was still hope for recovering the 11 workers who died.

But why let the facts of the tragedy interfere with the on-going partisan bashing of Obama from the Sock Puppets?




--
 
Looks like the whores are out in force early today:

Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX)

"BARTON: I’m speaking totally for myself, I’m not speaking for the Republican Party, I’m not speaking for anybody in the House of Representatives but myself. But I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown — with the Attorney General of the United States who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the interests of the American people — participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that is unprecedented in our nation’s history, that’s got no legal standing, which I think sets a terrible precedent for the future."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/17/bp-shakedown-barton/

Keep swallowing whore.
 
Looks like the whores are out in force early today:

Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX)

"BARTON: I’m speaking totally for myself, I’m not speaking for the Republican Party, I’m not speaking for anybody in the House of Representatives but myself. But I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown — with the Attorney General of the United States who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the interests of the American people — participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that is unprecedented in our nation’s history, that’s got no legal standing, which I think sets a terrible precedent for the future."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/17/bp-shakedown-barton/

Keep swallowing whore.


So ... in the "future" when a tropical depression/hurricane drives oil onto the Texas coast, slashes tourism revenues and depletes fisheries by 75%, Ol' Joe will stand by his principles and block the distribution of monies from the BP Fund to his citizenry?




--
 
As long as Joe Barton claims to be speaking for himself, how can I be offended, because he certainly is not speaking for me.

In short in unprecedented times, we have to be innovative, and even BP is agreeing with that.
 
Looks like the whores are out in force early today:

Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX)

"BARTON: I’m speaking totally for myself, I’m not speaking for the Republican Party, I’m not speaking for anybody in the House of Representatives but myself. But I’m ashamed of what happened in the White House yesterday. I think it is a tragedy of the first proportion that a private corporation can be subjected to what I would characterize as a shakedown, in this case a $20 billion shakedown — with the Attorney General of the United States who is legitimately conducting a criminal investigation and has every right to do so to protect the interests of the American people — participating in what amounts to a $20 billion slush fund that is unprecedented in our nation’s history, that’s got no legal standing, which I think sets a terrible precedent for the future."

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/06/17/bp-shakedown-barton/

Keep swallowing whore.

Coming from a Texan Republican. 😀

TBH it looks as though BP knows they have no real defense and they have no choice in "doing the right thing". This money alone isn't a fix, but it definitely helps. Next up, real legislation that can bring real oversight to how these rigs are run and a criminal investigation to see if anyone SHOULD be held accountable for the deaths of those workers and the subsequent massive oil spill.

Maybe they're paying this money up so quickly to try to avoid the latter 2. I sincerely doubt Obama and co will be able to adequately address those 2 points. 🙄
 
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