BOYCOTT OUTSOURCING!!

[mugs]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga
I didn't read that but my problem is when people aren't working as hard as others are willing to and then complain when their job gets taken away

The problem isn't that people aren't working as hard as others, the problem is that people in India will program for $11,000 a year, and that's what you make at McDonald's here. Our cost of living is higher, we can't possibly compete with them on salary.

 

There are reports of people outsourcing their own jobs.

You get a job churning out code for 60K a year, you outsource your job to a guy in india who is paid 12K a year.

 

[Dimkaumd]

If you have a company would you want someone telling you where to hire your employees? If yoru company is in NY do you want gov't officials telling you, you cant hire ppl from NJ??? then why cant u hire ppl in india? its your business, americans dont have a right to a job, so if your boss wants to give your job to someone in Romania because they are willing to work for 50% less than tough. Get some more education and get a new job. stop whining

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Jzero
Why would other countries outsource to the US, anyway? Labor is more expensive in the US!

Ask BMW. They outsourced to, Georgia, iirc. It's all about domestic labor vs. others. Germany>US in labor costs.

BTW, anti outsourcing people asking for higher cost of goods?!? I mean, you like that $500 PC right? Where do you think most mobos are produced? Why... cost of labor. Outsourcing is a natural part of free market and competition.

Woot for free markets and competition!!!

 

[Dimkaumd]

good point

 

[civad]

OP, I think you don't really understand what outsourcing means.
It essentially means contracting an outside agency to perform some of your organization's tasks. E.g accounting, engineering design, etc.

My company is the preferred design organization for many public utilities and water supply companies in CT. Our clients essentially OUTSOURCE their design and construction management proceesses to my company, which is based in the US.
Using your logic, my company should be banned.

There is a difference between outsourcing within the country, and outsourcing OUTSIDE the country.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Overseas outsourcing is a plague

That should be a sig line.

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Outsourcing = :thumbsup:
Offshoring = :thumbsdown:

Perhaps I should clarify my statement:
Foreign outsourcing (sending a portion of your operation, especially a client-facing one, overseas) - BAD.
Domestic outsourcing - GOOD.
Offshoring (A foreign presence allowing you to provide round-the-clock operations very inexpensively) - GOOD.

Offshoring revolutionized the way the company I work for works. The US developers brief the developers in India at the end of the US day. Then, at the end of the day half a world away, the folks in India update the US team on the progress they've made. A client complains at 5:30PM and instead of someone having to work overnight to fix it or make the client wait until morning, the overseas team works the fix while we sleep. The development speed is amazing, yet it comes at little cost to the company, and more importantly, without costing the US developers their livelihoods (we would have never hired shift employees to do development either way. We keep our US staff and augment it with another staff overseas).

And that's just the programming end. Having foreign support teams means we don't have to respond to a page at 3AM when it's 2:30PM in India. Having foreign client teams means they always get a human being on the phone and an immediate resolution - any time, night or day. They used to have to leave a voice mail and wait until morning.

Costs are relatively flat, but clients are happier than ever.

And most importantly, offshoring doesn't replace American jobs. We simply would have never hired those people to begin with - we couldn't afford to. How much would you have to pay an experienced programmer to work 3rd shift? It never would have happened. It was never even considered.

 

[Staples]

The worst part is when I have to talk to some Indian on the phone and I can't understand a thing he says.

 

[civad]

The worst part is when I have to talk to some Indian on the phone and I can't understand a thing he says.

The feeling must be mutual. They cannot understand what you say, either. Stop being so picky and try to listen to what the other person is trying to say. Nothing personal here.

 

[bozack]

off shoring and outsourcing are here to stay...I have a bigger problem with off shoring but I see why companies need to do it in order to stay competitive, remember this isn't the 80s or even early 90s anymore, we are now a huge part of a global economy where competition is key...if we cannot provide the service at the lowest possible cost and highest quality someone else will step right in.

 

[gigapet]

this would not be an issue if americans were willing to work for less.

 

[Bassyhead]

Originally posted by: bozack
off shoring and outsourcing are here to stay...I have a bigger problem with off shoring but I see why companies need to do it in order to stay competitive, remember this isn't the 80s or even early 90s anymore, we are now a huge part of a global economy where competition is key...if we cannot provide the service at the lowest possible cost and highest quality someone else will step right in.

I agree. There are a number of large companies that outsource business in the US. A relative works for a large company that produces maufacturing machines. Historically, a lot of their business has been from GM but nowadays Chinese companies have purchased a lot of goods and services from them.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Jzero

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Outsourcing = :thumbsup:
Offshoring = :thumbsdown:

Perhaps I should clarify my statement:
Foreign outsourcing (sending a portion of your operation, especially a client-facing one, overseas) - BAD.
Domestic outsourcing - GOOD.
Offshoring (A foreign presence allowing you to provide round-the-clock operations very inexpensively) - GOOD.

Offshoring revolutionized the way the company I work for works. The US developers brief the developers in India at the end of the US day. Then, at the end of the day half a world away, the folks in India update the US team on the progress they've made. A client complains at 5:30PM and instead of someone having to work overnight to fix it or make the client wait until morning, the overseas team works the fix while we sleep. The development speed is amazing, yet it comes at little cost to the company, and more importantly, without costing the US developers their livelihoods (we would have never hired shift employees to do development either way. We keep our US staff and augment it with another staff overseas).

And that's just the programming end. Having foreign support teams means we don't have to respond to a page at 3AM when it's 2:30PM in India. Having foreign client teams means they always get a human being on the phone and an immediate resolution - any time, night or day. They used to have to leave a voice mail and wait until morning.

Costs are relatively flat, but clients are happier than ever.

And most importantly, offshoring doesn't replace American jobs. We simply would have never hired those people to begin with - we couldn't afford to. How much would you have to pay an experienced programmer to work 3rd shift? It never would have happened. It was never even considered.

Bingo. Like with any business decision, some are good and some are bad. You can find both examples of offshoring. In general it's good, because it increases competition, lowers cost of goods. But if you go overboard it's a bad idea. Offshoring 100% of you dev work to, india, for example, would probably be a bad idea. Especially if your customers are in the US.

Where do you work, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds a lot like a company that I was lost my job at (to overseas staff, none the less). I think moving the whole operation to India was a bad idea, but moving shifts would have been a good idea.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: civad
OP, I think you don't really understand what outsourcing means.
It essentially means contracting an outside agency to perform some of your organization's tasks. E.g accounting, engineering design, etc.

My company is the preferred design organization for many public utilities and water supply companies in CT. Our clients essentially OUTSOURCE their design and construction management proceesses to my company, which is based in the US.
Using your logic, my company should be banned.

There is a difference between outsourcing within the country, and outsourcing OUTSIDE the country.

You're right, I should have specified that I was talking about overseas outsourcing.... OH WAIT, I DID! People, read the original post before you criticize it.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: civad

The worst part is when I have to talk to some Indian on the phone and I can't understand a thing he says.

The feeling must be mutual. They cannot understand what you say, either. Stop being so picky and try to listen to what the other person is trying to say. Nothing personal here.

Exactly, they can't understand us, we can't understand them, SO DON'T OUTSOURCE OVERSEAS. LET ME TALK TO A FRICKIN AMERICAN! Nothing personal.

 

[civad]

You're right, I should have specified that I was talking about overseas outsourcing.... OH WAIT, I DID! People, read the original post for you criticize it.

I concede you got a point there. So how do I plead? "Guilty"

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: civad

The worst part is when I have to talk to some Indian on the phone and I can't understand a thing he says.

The feeling must be mutual. They cannot understand what you say, either. Stop being so picky and try to listen to what the other person is trying to say. Nothing personal here.

In case you have forgotten, in that case he is a customer and it is not unreasonable to expect good service.

 

[darkjester]

Originally posted by: civad

The worst part is when I have to talk to some Indian on the phone and I can't understand a thing he says.

The feeling must be mutual. They cannot understand what you say, either. Stop being so picky and try to listen to what the other person is trying to say. Nothing personal here.

The difference is that they're not calling us to get intelligable help. How much help, that the customers paid for when buying the product/service, can be given when the accent is so horrible?

Also, "try to listen to what the other person is trying to say." If I were to say "kjdfi eknie iegie aoqkpc aoje," and you didn't understand, would you be picky for not "trying to understand wha the other person is trying to say"? In fact, you can try all you want... but it's as simple as this: if you don't understand, you don't understand.

 

[OS]

Ok I read through most of the articles and it's a familiar story. It's about how the US in general has become a poor economic, academic and social/political environment for technical innovation and research. As a result, companies with international reach are establishing and using human capital in other countries besides the US. As this happens more and more, US technical and academic lead will be lost to other countries. Once the lead is lost, the US will no longer be the economic leader of the world.

This is a very serious problem. As more and more companies use human capital overseas, those workers will keep the knowledge they learned and go on to develop next generation technologies, products and companies. If you send enough work overseas, it is inevitable that some of those workers will take that know how and start the new Intels and Microsofts of the future.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: SampSon
There are reports of people outsourcing their own jobs.

You get a job churning out code for 60K a year, you outsource your job to a guy in india who is paid 12K a year.

I read an article where some companies were claiming that the innovation shown by the Indian programmers was lower than the American ones. There were a couple companies who were bringing their programming jobs back to the US, so they could get the specifications down to the programmer and dynamically work out the features as it was being written. They said the Indian guys were great if you gave them very specific instructions as to what you wanted, but if it was an evolving specification they weren't so good.

I dunno, just something I read.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: OS
Ok I read through most of the articles and it's a familiar story. It's about how the US in general has become a poor economic, academic and social/political environment for technical innovation and research. As a result, companies with international reach are establishing and using human capital in other countries besides the US. As this happens more and more, US technical and academic lead will be lost to other countries. Once the lead is lost, the US will no longer be the economic leader of the world.

This is a very serious problem. As more and more companies use human capital overseas, those workers will keep the knowledge they learned and go on to develop next generation technologies, products and companies. If you send enough work overseas, it is inevitable that some of those workers will take that know how and start the new Intels and Microsofts of the future.

EXACTLY! Very nicely put OS. Ditto to darkjester.

So how to stop it? Vote with your dollars and BOYCOTT.

and maybe distribute flyers...or something...

 

[DaWhim]

I see some people with ZERO economics knowledge arguing how outsource is bad. perhaps, anyone who has taken the an introductory course of economics can tell us what is "Comparative Advantage"

 

[DaWhim]

found the article, here is a better one for your understanding

Is globalization sending the best American jobs overseas? If you get your news from CNN?s Lou Dobbs, the answer is "of course" and the only real issue is how many trade restrictions should be applied to stem the bleeding.

But the recent scare about "offshoring" is just the latest twist on an inaccurate, decades-old complaint that global trade is stealing jobs and causing a "race to the bottom" in which corporations relentlessly scour the world for the lowest wages and most squalid working conditions. China and India have replaced 1980s Japan and 1990s Mexico as the most feared foreign threats to U.S. employment, and the old fallacy of job scarcity has once again reared its distracting head.

The truth is cheerier. Trade is only one element in a much bigger picture of incessant turnover in the American labor market. Furthermore, the overall trend is toward more and better jobs for American workers. While job losses are real and sometimes very painful, it is important -- indeed, for the formulation of sound public policy, it is vital -- to distinguish between the painful aspects of progress and outright decline.

Toward that end, and to counter protectionist "analysis" masquerading as fact, here are 10 core truths about global trade and American jobs.

read on...

10 Truths About Trade

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: DaWhim
I see some people with ZERO economics knowledge arguing how outsource is bad. perhaps, anyone who has taken the an introductory course of economics can tell us what is "Comparative Advantage"

This definition in fact applies very well to the current situation. US "comparative advantage" for human capital is falling behind. It's a problem with US infrastructure, including academic, government and economic conditions. There political leadership in the US needs to add more tax incentives and funding for promoting innovation, design and development of new ideas, technologies and products.

For example, in the case of stem cell research, the US has already fallen behind because of restrictions by our current leadership and European groups are ahead of us now. If stem cells becomes the basis of next generation drugs and treatments, the rewards will go to european companies and not the US.

This is not something that is out of our control. We should do everything we can to ensure the American people and intellectual/business environment remains the best place in the world for new business and technology growth.