Boy, Raspberry Pi forum members have thin skins...

[MaxDepth]

[RANT]
Not directed at the engineering or marketing teams - they've learned the hard way and are much more mature.

But damn, Pi fanboys, once someone says 'I'm not a fan of the 3B+,' or 'why doesn't it have USB3.x?' you guys dogpile the poster. Grow the fuck up, willya?

It's like watching the old batch of ATi fanboys go after people who asked similar questions.
[/RANT]

 

[shortylickens]

I was wondering why a lurker started posting again.

 

[zinfamous]

what do you mean "you guys"?

 

[Rifter]

Asking why it doesnt have usb 3.x is just completely asinine, so i can see why people would jump on them, the SOC and USB chip required to have USB 3.x would cost several times the cost of the whole 3B+ board.

Thats the PC equivalent of asking why a base model dell desktop doesnt come with a 1080Ti and still for a total cost of $300.

But as to people not being a fan i cant see people having an issue with that, some people just want better hardware and performance, and there are alot of people offering better hardware so people do have options. The 3B+ is not for everyone.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yup. When you're asking a "why doesn't this $35 computer have _____" the answer is almost always going to be "$35 computer."

Fanboys gonna fanboy. I bet a lot of them are kids.

I like my RetroPie rig just fine, thanks.

 

[whm1974]

For only $35 what in Hell do they expect? For what people are doing with it, $35 sounds really cheap.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Why do I have a hunch the OP is the one asking the questions and that he's probably not doing it as innocently as he acts like. I'm guessing its more like "why doesn't it have this, it'd just cost pennies extra, there's NO reason it doesn't have it, I need this feature but now I have to buy a full $1000 computer to do what I want because Raspberry Pi people stupidly chose to skimp!"

 

[Red Squirrel]

The RPI is really a cool thing, can't beat that price and functionality. It's more like $60ish by the time you get a power adapter, SD card, have it shipped etc but still good to have more or less a fully working Linux environment for under $100. I have not even played much with the IO stuff yet myself, I just use them as computers.

 

[MaxDepth]

Wow, you guys don't get it. Of course I could ask for X and expect dumb answers to dumb questions. But give it rest a think and think about it.

The USB 3.0 spec is ten years old. That's like 70 years of real time (computer years = dog years). The SoC they are using, while new, is just as old in terms of development.

And if you are going to put a gig ethernet on there, why? You'll never reach that throughput. You won't even get half. Sure, you needed the newer hub/controller to push triple the amount of Tx/Rx from the previous model, but that's like saying I put a hemi on a go cart to get it to go a bit faster. Under-utilization in one area just so you can max out another area is not the best design in any chipset. So I asked why certain decisions were made with the 3B+. An engineer thoughtfully responded to me offline and I thought that was gracious, when they didn't have to.

No, its the damn fanboys who get their panties in a twist when someone asks why? Heaven forbid, someone questions design choices when it is so obvious that Raspberry Pi is truly god's gift to the masses.

Actually darkswordsman17 does bring up a good point. I've seen others ask for certain things that are a bit too pointed, which makes me think they're trying to get what they need in something already made instead of going through the process of making their own boards. However, this is not the case for me. If I wanted something just for me, I'd ask for beefier video and standalone video memory instead of shared. That would be perfect for thin client design.

As for a design that would incorporate USB 3.x, yes, they would have to drop the SoC and go to something else. And it would not have cost more. However, the engineering team goes with what they are comfortable with, and as pointed out to me, the operational side would have needed a longer (and costlier) cycle with new silicon. And they do understand to keep improving while keeping their mission statement is a balancing act.

As for lurking, yeah, I left because of the fanboy diatribes where any question is a question of their rights. There is a line between product evangelist and Jim Jones. So yeah, I got tired of it. I moved on to the Omega Onion and 3d printing, which the latter is taking up most of my freecycle time.

tl;dr
- you can build hardware for the same price point but you'll probably pay in terms of software development
- nothing to see; just move on, no need to think about participating again

 

[Red Squirrel]

Woah did not realize USB 3.0 was really that old. Why is it that even on motherboards you only get like 2 ports and the rest are 2.0? I still feel like we're in the transition period, but clearly not if it's that old.

Actually what they should maybe do is stick with the current platform/price point but have a higher end version too that has more peripherals that are also not shared. Call it the Raspberry PI Plus or something. It could be in the $100-$200 range. Even $300. Maybe even make it x86/x64 platform? Would still be way cheaper than buying a motherboard, cpu, ram and power supply to build a PC.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I think it also has to do with the reason that the raspberry pi foundation and broadcom have a very close relationship.
As long as broadcom does not have a arm soc with usb 3.0 in the product portfolio, it will not happen.
As the OP mentioned correctly in post 9, it does have to be a balanced design and affordable. Otherwise it is not going to happen.
For most people the ~40MB/sec theoretical limit that usb2.0 can reach is more than enough.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

tl;dr
- you can build hardware for the same price point but you'll probably pay in terms of software development
- nothing to see; just move on, no need to think about participating again

Sad but true.

To be fair, it's not all one chip - the gigabit ethernet version of their USB hub is probably the same price as the old model, and the Ethernet speed boost, even if it's not full 1GbE, is essentially "free."

There's probably a good reason Broadcom went with a USB2 based design - maybe to make more room on the chip for media features or other stuff. Or because higher-frequency interconnects like USB3 might interfere with WiFi and Bluetooth, as well as making the board design more difficult/expensive. Most of these embedded systems are intended for situations where peripheral I/O isn't a big priority, and IMHO the tradeoffs are probably the "right" ones for the intended market and mission statement.

If you want, you can get a dev board built around a router SoC, with a full complement of GbE ports. Get a USB<->GPIO adapter and go to town.

 

[DaveSimmons]

What's the non-trolling point of saying "I'm not a fan of the 3B+"?

Faster clock speed, faster ethernet, drop-in replacement, same $35 price despite inflation. Win-win-win-win.

"It should've been even better!" ? Well then, show me the other $35 competitors that are better, and buy one?

 

[sdifox]

Wow, you guys don't get it. Of course I could ask for X and expect dumb answers to dumb questions. But give it rest a think and think about it.

The USB 3.0 spec is ten years old. That's like 70 years of real time (computer years = dog years). The SoC they are using, while new, is just as old in terms of development.

And if you are going to put a gig ethernet on there, why? You'll never reach that throughput. You won't even get half. Sure, you needed the newer hub/controller to push triple the amount of Tx/Rx from the previous model, but that's like saying I put a hemi on a go cart to get it to go a bit faster. Under-utilization in one area just so you can max out another area is not the best design in any chipset. So I asked why certain decisions were made with the 3B+. An engineer thoughtfully responded to me offline and I thought that was gracious, when they didn't have to.

No, its the damn fanboys who get their panties in a twist when someone asks why? Heaven forbid, someone questions design choices when it is so obvious that Raspberry Pi is truly god's gift to the masses.

Actually darkswordsman17 does bring up a good point. I've seen others ask for certain things that are a bit too pointed, which makes me think they're trying to get what they need in something already made instead of going through the process of making their own boards. However, this is not the case for me. If I wanted something just for me, I'd ask for beefier video and standalone video memory instead of shared. That would be perfect for thin client design.

As for a design that would incorporate USB 3.x, yes, they would have to drop the SoC and go to something else. And it would not have cost more. However, the engineering team goes with what they are comfortable with, and as pointed out to me, the operational side would have needed a longer (and costlier) cycle with new silicon. And they do understand to keep improving while keeping their mission statement is a balancing act.

As for lurking, yeah, I left because of the fanboy diatribes where any question is a question of their rights. There is a line between product evangelist and Jim Jones. So yeah, I got tired of it. I moved on to the Omega Onion and 3d printing, which the latter is taking up most of my freecycle time.

tl;dr
- you can build hardware for the same price point but you'll probably pay in terms of software development
- nothing to see; just move on, no need to think about participating again

Given that they are getting the soc from broadcom at a deep discount, they are purposly not the latest and greatest. It's a learning tool. Not production gear.
Fanboys, get over yourselves.

 

[Anubis]

what use case do you need it for?

 

[Scarpozzi]

Given that they are getting the soc from broadcom at a deep discount, they are purposly not the latest and greatest. It's a learning tool. Not production gear.
Fanboys, get over yourselves.

Yeah. The goal of wanting usb3 is probably to mount SSD or do something with faster/larger storage. Totally understandable request....just ain't feasible. With a gig link it would make sense to embrace network file systems and go another route with usage.

 

[sdifox]

what use case do you need it for?

I would like to see USB 3.0 since USB is the main bus on RPI. Everything runs through that pipe. So it would be nice if it were 3.0, but I am not ponying up the money for Broadcom to make one.

 

[ultimatebob]

Ok, USB 3 I get. Why doesn't it have real Gigabit Ethernet, though? Gigabit Ethernet has been around for over 15 years now, and has come standard on most computers for the past 10 years.

 

[sdifox]

Ok, USB 3 I get. Why doesn't it have real Gigabit Ethernet, though? Gigabit Ethernet has been around for over 15 years now, and has come standard on most computers for the past 10 years.

The port is Gigabit. Over usb 2.0 bus = no diff.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-3-model-bplus-sale-now-35/

 

[Anubis]

I would like to see USB 3.0 since USB is the main bus on RPI. Everything runs through that pipe. So it would be nice if it were 3.0, but I am not ponying up the money for Broadcom to make one.

im aware of how it works i have 2 of them. i was just curious as to what use case you have that needs the increased speed

 

[sdifox]

im aware of how it works i have 2 of them. i was just curious as to what use case you have that needs the increased speed

File Transfer from network to usb hdd for example.

 

[ultimatebob]

The port is Gigabit. Over usb 2.0 bus = no diff.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-3-model-bplus-sale-now-35/

Yeah, putting the "Gigabit" port on the USB 2 bus maxes out it's throughput at 300 Mb/s. Better than 10/100 Ethernet, but not great for something like an embedded file server or proxy server.

 

[DaveSimmons]

A $35 graphics card would not be great for 4K gaming either. This is not a $500 embedded controller or even a $99 one. For $35 with CPU, motherboard, RAM, integrated video, and I/O it's a very nice board that has many uses but can't do everything you might want.

 

[ultimatebob]

A $35 graphics card would not be great for 4K gaming either. This is not a $500 embedded controller or even a $99 one. For $35 with CPU, motherboard, RAM, integrated video, and I/O it's a very nice board that has many uses but can't do everything you might want.

No sane person is going to try 4K gaming on a Raspberry Pi, though. Lots of people use them as small embedded file servers and proxy servers. Hell, they even make a special USB hard drive for them.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wait, does the RPI do 4k? I did not figure it did at all. I would not expect to game on a RPI, even at HD, but if it can reliably display GUI stuff at 4k that is actually very good.