Boy given 26 years in jail for killing playmate

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is it with the lefts compassion for the criminals of this country?
The kid is 12, by age 12 you know right from wrong. The kid killed another kid brutally but we are supposed to feel bad for him because he was tried as an adult at age 12?

I dont have much sympathy for this kid. If we tried him as a child, he is out sooner, and will do it again.

I like to call it "the rule of law." By the "law" he is not an adult and cannot be administered adult penalties.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: funkbass81
so, he didnt know what would happen if he stabbed someone 34 times?

Typically younger people do not have the same understanding of how the world applies to them, its related to how young people often taking idiotic risks because they don't believe in their own mortality yet. You only begin to see such things once you have expirienced mortality yourself.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: funkbass81

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: aidanjm
He's not allowed to:
-vote
-drive
-drink
-have sex
-sign a contract on his own

But he can be tried as an adult?

this is truly barbaric.

Totally. And don't forget, gamble, smoke, join the military.

Don't forget murder...he's not allowed to murder either.

Your point?

My point is that kids are denied certian things for a very good reason untill they become adults and even as adults they are denied the right to murder at will and have to follow the rules like everyone else. What was your point ?

you obviously have no point. the rules dont apply to children? 😕

The rules do apply to children, they just have a different set of penalties.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Curious what the punishment for murder is for a child, if he were not tried as an adult.

More over, could the parents of the murdering child be charged with neglect of a dangerous weapon leading to another child?s death?

Why does the idea of vengeance get some people so excited, as if the harsher the punishment handed out to someone, anyone will somehow mae up for the crime that happened (or in this case, may have happened).

If the 12 year old left the other id dead, but they did fall out of a tree, he needs counselling, if he killed him, he needs to be institutionalized, no doubt about it.

But a 12 year old is not an adult, period; he doesn't have any chance of a fully developed personality, sense of right and wrong, etc. Simply jailing him is both unethical and absolutely useless.

The reason being that the laws in place for children in regards to killing another human being are equivalent to a slap on the wrist. He's crime was so heinous in nature and his alibi so cold and uncaring that there was no choice but to try him as a adult. This kid just pushed through the threshold of the juvenile system with his cold blooded murder is all.

He is 15, and at that age his emotions are hardly fully developed. Most likely his reaction and lack of emotion is due to the conditioning of facing his life, future and everything being destroyed.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: gersson
Wow. That's crazy. I think he should be tried as a kid but then re-evaluated as an adult...he'll likely spend a lot of time in jail.

I think spending his juvenile yours in house arrest or something along those lines with a reevaluation at age 18 before penalization would be the correct choice, since it gives some hope and motivation ofor his own rehabilitation.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Lazy8s

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There are basically two ways that people are socialized:

Many children grow up with a respect for others out of a sense of empathy. This is a gift and a property of man and even the great apes that he (they) can see himself (themselves) in the shoes of another. Many parents also encourage their children to put themselves in the place of the other when making moral decisions. This practice, when developed leads to the highest attainment in moral standards limited only by ones capacity to feel for the other, a capacity, for example in Christ, that was probably infinite. It is the foundation and meaning of the Golden Rule. This is a morality based on love and intelligence that springs from our deepest genetic nature or as some might say, the fact we were created in the image of God.

The other way that socialization is achieved is via threat. You will conform to the rules or we will kill you, put you down, humiliate you and make you feel so worthless you will never again step out of line.

The first attitude leads to the liberal who understands that only love can save humanity from his lust to do evil. The latter leads to a conformist hate filled bunch of sheep who satisfy their craven lusts for revenge in the name of justice. We were brutalized to make us toe the line and what's good enough for us is good enough for others. We conform out of fear and disgust and you will too. These are the prosecutorial conformists who lust to break the rules but fear to and take their hate out on those who do. They are of course also the ones full of pompous self respect they imagine will hide their inner feelings of inferiority. They'll experience rage when they read this.

Wait wait tell me if I'm reading too much into this. You have 2 points:
1) To become a Republican you obviously stabbed someone 34 times when you were under the age of 18
2) This is a Democratic victory in disguise because they just put a Repiblican in jail


Right? Amazing how you can bring politics into this. "Murders are Republicans because they don't understand compassion".

I don't think you are reading too much there. I think you're not reading at all. I think you have feelings of inferiority that are really not factual but you believe them emotionally. I think what happened is that I hit one of those inferiority nerves and it read all that stuff into what I said for you. It's called projection, the seeing in others of motives you hide from yourself. I used the word 'liberals' not as Democrats but in the classical sense and I did not use conservatives in opposition because this punitive disease is found in both parties. You may note, however, that liberals are often tarred as being touchie feelie by the emotionally dead, especially of the right, out of envy they retain partial life. You should know then that emotional deadness is the result of self hate and that empathy is a retention of some life. I sympathies with your realization that your need for punishment is sick. But the truth is the truth and it doesn't change because it's unpleasant or inconvenient.

Hmm perhaps my problem is I read too many of your posts. You remind me alot of Neil Boortz "I'm not a Repiblican I just bash the Liberals all day and fully support Bush." If I hadn't read at all then I probably wouldn't have posted on topic. Also I find it humerous that you think so highly of yourself to think that anyone would read your original post and "experience rage" like your opinion carries enough weight to offend anyone, likely anyone that posts here often read for comic value or skipped it. Furthermore, how would a feeling of inferiority make me respond like I did? How would your post even make someone feel inferior? "OMG Moonbeam is so much smarter than I am, the only way I can defend my ego is to post that he's bashing Republicans!" Does that make sense? Especially coming from someone that's not a Republican?

Some people may think Liberals are touchy feely, I on the other hand think they are generally correct but sadly enough in America they often times go to far. I think this is one instance. If you kill someone brutally you've given up the right to be called "naive". If it was accidental I can see, but stabbed repeatedly? I hardly call giving a teenager 26 years in prison for a brutal stabbing of a retarted friend my "lust to do evil". I think perhaps the reason you've garnered responses such as mine is because you made a very blanket statement that anyone that is not liberal enough to understand that this punishment is wrong is "a conformist hate filled bunch of sheep who satisfy their craven lusts for revenge in the name of justice".

Moonbeam's analysis is accurate to the socialization theory that i learned in school back in the day, he may have taken a bit of liberty with his extrapolation, but I tend to find him to be on the right path.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
And I can't imagine letting a child who stabs people run around.

At least, not until he becomes an adult.

 

[OCNewbie]

People should be able to be "tried as an adult" to do other adult things at an age prior to 18.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Why does the idea of vengeance get some people so excited, as if the harsher the punishment handed out to someone, anyone will somehow mae up for the crime that happened (or in this case, may have happened).

If the 12 year old left the other id dead, but they did fall out of a tree, he needs counselling, if he killed him, he needs to be institutionalized, no doubt about it.

But a 12 year old is not an adult, period; he doesn't have any chance of a fully developed personality, sense of right and wrong, etc. Simply jailing him is both unethical and absolutely useless.

The reason being that the laws in place for children in regards to killing another human being are equivalent to a slap on the wrist. He's crime was so heinous in nature and his alibi so cold and uncaring that there was no choice but to try him as a adult. This kid just pushed through the threshold of the juvenile system with his cold blooded murder is all.

His crime isn't really the issue here; were he 16 or 17 perhaps, I could see making that argument, but he's wasn't, he was 12. Say what you like about the capacity of the juvenile system to deal with this case, sending him to adult prison is going to be worse than useless.

Originally posted by: zendari
Making up for the crimes doesn't matter. The point is to see results and have confidence in our justice system.

If you don't want to jail him, just stab him 33 times. We'll kindly wave the 34th.

The point is to see results and have confidence? What does that even mean? Oh that's right - it means 'hurry up and punish someone so I feel better'.

 

[zendari]

At least if I feel better something worthwhile came out of his worthless life.

 

[Kyanzes]

At least do a little research before you yell at those trying a child as an adult. Here is an article concerning the matter.

I mean you do trust your own legal system, don't you?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: zendari
At least if I feel better something worthwhile came out of his worthless life.

This of course has nothing to do with justice.

You could 'feel better' if we made laws that put gays in concentration camps, but that wouldn't be justice either.

Part of me would 'feel better' if hate mongers like you weren't allowed to speak, but that wouldn't be justice either. It would be wrong.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: zendari
At least if I feel better something worthwhile came out of his worthless life.

But of course you do. This is the normal reaction of folk with who can't contain their self hate. It's a form of sadism.

 

[Tylanner]

man nature at work

scary stuff

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: zendari
At least if I feel better something worthwhile came out of his worthless life.

This of course has nothing to do with justice.

You could 'feel better' if we made laws that put gays in concentration camps, but that wouldn't be justice either.

Part of me would 'feel better' if hate mongers like you weren't allowed to speak, but that wouldn't be justice either. It would be wrong.

He was charged through our justice system. This is very much justice.

The judge in the case had the common sense to see that this murderer cannot be treated with kid gloves.

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: zendari
At least if I feel better something worthwhile came out of his worthless life.

This of course has nothing to do with justice.

You could 'feel better' if we made laws that put gays in concentration camps, but that wouldn't be justice either.

Part of me would 'feel better' if hate mongers like you weren't allowed to speak, but that wouldn't be justice either. It would be wrong.

He was charged through our justice system. This is very much justice.

qft zendari, the great part is instead of trying to argue the issue of legality or bring up some valid moral argument with you all you're going to hear is how you hate yourself and you're jealous of their intelligence. I think they took "keep it simple stupid" to a whole new level of arguing, instead of forming an argument they can just call everyone that disagrees self-hating and jealous; while simple it's not too effective.

 

[JS80]

Since when does playboy hire mentally disabled kids?

 

[VooDooAddict]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Not knowing the facts of the case makes it impossible to judge over the mere text that one kid killed another. I merely wish to propose that using abuse/neglect, and other such laws might find the parents held accountable to some degree.

If you own a dangerous animal, and it gets loose and kills a human being. That is your fault due to neglect of proper care. So if your child stabs another with a knife with the intent to kill and is only twelve, does the aspect of neglect play the same role? Just food for thought is all.

If he is tried as an adult how can one hold the parents accountable?

Unfortunately people can be found innocent in criminal trials ... but then later found responsible (and implied "Guilty") for damages in civil court. I still haven't heard a convincing argument about why this isn't a form of double jeopardy.

 

[VooDooAddict]

Originally posted by: firebyyrd
I think stabbing someone 34 times is barbaric. Especially at age 12. even more stabbing a retarded kid 34 times. -_-

That's the point some are trying to make ... this was barbaric. As bad as the instinctual nature of some animals to kill deformed young within a pack. Oh wait, that's part of maturing and learning as a human. You are educated to use reason instead of instinct.

I'm not pretending to know the mind of this 12 year old or all the details of this case. And I'm certainly not saying that kids should never be charged as adults.

I'm just saying that when considering trying someone as an adult, the system should look at more factors then you imply. The crime alone shouldn't be the determining factor.

 

[desy]

This particular judges 'view of justice' is exactly why it it will go to appeal and corrected by his betters who understand human nature and devolopment in greater depth.

 

[RedBeard]

Originally posted by: desy
This particular judges 'view of justice' is exactly why it it will go to appeal and corrected by his betters who understand human nature and devolopmentin greater depth.

Well damn! That's just human nature. I know I killed half my friends before I learned right and wrong. I know everyone is thinking the first person they stabbed to death.... sigh... those were the days...

Hopefully this child should be let go so he can attend daycare with YOUR kids. After all he probably learned his lesson. After all, it was the KNIFE manuafacturer's fault!! Sue them!

 

[Ferocious]

He needs both punishment and help.

but the FACT is he was not an adult.

unfortunately so many people hate facts.

 

[desy]

The recidivism rate of homicide is less than the general population at large, so yes
technically I would feel safer with him than a room full of unknown kids

 

[Jenova314]

this reminds me of the violent freak in Butterfly Effects

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Why does the idea of vengeance get some people so excited, as if the harsher the punishment handed out to someone, anyone will somehow mae up for the crime that happened (or in this case, may have happened).

If the 12 year old left the other id dead, but they did fall out of a tree, he needs counselling, if he killed him, he needs to be institutionalized, no doubt about it.

But a 12 year old is not an adult, period; he doesn't have any chance of a fully developed personality, sense of right and wrong, etc. Simply jailing him is both unethical and absolutely useless.

The reason being that the laws in place for children in regards to killing another human being are equivalent to a slap on the wrist. He's crime was so heinous in nature and his alibi so cold and uncaring that there was no choice but to try him as a adult. This kid just pushed through the threshold of the juvenile system with his cold blooded murder is all.

His crime isn't really the issue here; were he 16 or 17 perhaps, I could see making that argument, but he's wasn't, he was 12. Say what you like about the capacity of the juvenile system to deal with this case, sending him to adult prison is going to be worse than useless.

Originally posted by: zendari
Making up for the crimes doesn't matter. The point is to see results and have confidence in our justice system.

If you don't want to jail him, just stab him 33 times. We'll kindly wave the 34th.

The point is to see results and have confidence? What does that even mean? Oh that's right - it means 'hurry up and punish someone so I feel better'.

How do you know that he will be going to a adult prision ? What more then likely will happen is that he will be in a juvenile detention center untill he is 18 and then transfered over to the adult prison system when he is 18 and more then likely will get paroled at 25 if he has behaved himself and shown a drop of remorse for his actions.

Worse case scenario would be they put him in adult prison and completely segregate him from the rest of the populace untill he is 18. Even then he'll of recieved more state services there then the mentally retarded child he stab to death 34 times.