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Boy given 26 years in jail for killing playmate
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soccerballtux
Lifer
I know this isn't the popular thing to say, but.....we should put him to death then. If you are old enough to have emotions strong enough to kill, you are old enough to face the consequences of your actions. None of this "but he's a kid". If this were usual business, I can guarentee it wouldn't be very usual for much longer. People would learn to control their hatred or else. Its not that difficult when you realize you're in danger of losing what you want to take away.
theeedude
Lifer
Not true at all. It's a world of difference between and adult who has had the full benefit of an upbringing and maturity killing someone and a kid who may not be aware of the consequences of his actions doing it. There is a reason why people have to be a certain age to sign legally binding contracts. Up to certain age, children just don't know what they are doing enough to be held legally responsible for it.
soccerballtux
Lifer
Unfortunatly I must say this backfires when considering the weight of the situation. Police and the murderees(?) have an agenda just like anyone else. There needs to be eye-for-eye punishment (administered by those in authority, not your father, else the whole world be blind) for your actions, but it must not become a form of revenge for the family (IE they just want to be able to pin it on somebody so they can name the fault of their anger, hatred, and suffering).
I have faith in "the system", in murder/electric chair situations at least, simply because I believe those involved understand the weight of the matter. OTOH, when they're considering prison time for taking someone's life, they clearly do not understand the weight of the matter (don't value life enough to take it away when from someone who values their personal satisfaction more than person's [who was murdered] life).
Is the answer really to get rid of the death penalty? That only makes the situation worse. I don't want to pay tax monies to keep Boe fed in a jail cell all his life. Kill him.
Some people might get the chair when they really are innocent, but if it is so set in stone (A always leads to B) for murder [leading to death penalty] then there should be fewer cases of murder, and therefore fewer cases of Innocent Igor being wrongfully chair'd.
I have faith in "the system", in murder/electric chair situations at least, simply because I believe those involved understand the weight of the matter. OTOH, when they're considering prison time for taking someone's life, they clearly do not understand the weight of the matter (don't value life enough to take it away when from someone who values their personal satisfaction more than person's [who was murdered] life).
Is the answer really to get rid of the death penalty? That only makes the situation worse. I don't want to pay tax monies to keep Boe fed in a jail cell all his life. Kill him.
Some people might get the chair when they really are innocent, but if it is so set in stone (A always leads to B) for murder [leading to death penalty] then there should be fewer cases of murder, and therefore fewer cases of Innocent Igor being wrongfully chair'd.
I am not for putting kids on death row but what you are saying is complete bull. From my own experince when I was 12 years of age I knew full well what I was doing when I was doing something. I'll admit that kids don't always think before they act or understand the consequences to a full degree. Yet stabbing someone over and over again to death goes beyond the pale of just acting out. This shows a will and determination to kill.
When you stab someone over and over untill they die you not only show that you know what you are doing but you also show that you ignored the pleas, cries and screams of pain from the victim and are determine to end someones life.
soccerballtux
Lifer
Probably not, if he can't be taught that other people are important. Although I believe those cases are few and far between. We can't go about making laws including 1/100000 chance speculations when we've got real incidents happening right now that would go unpunished if we allowed for some leeway to deal with that 1/100000 chance. In essense, you can't make your laws based on the minority of situations. You have to cater to the majority.
bamacre
Lifer
And exactly, what is this "very good reason" kids are legally "denied certian things?"
Of course the answer to that question is that kids are not generally intelligent enough nor responsible enough to to fully understand nor comprehend the consequences of their actions. This is why 12 year old kids are not allowed to smoke, drink, have sex, enter into a contract, etc.
Trying a 12 year old as an adult is the direct opposite of this idea. And, IMO, it does not matter the charge against him. If he had stolen a TV from his neighbors, he wouldn't be tried as an adult, would he?
And before anyone suggests my solution would be to let the kid off with a slap on the wrist, it would not be.
Obviously, this kid had some severe problems before he decided to stab another kid 34 times.
One kid's life has already been destroyed, why not try to save the 2nd one? Spending 26 years in jail, or even half that is not going to fix his inital problem. I doubt anyone can refute that. if anything, he'll have even more problems and probably be more likely to kill again once he gets out.
Unfortunately, it's easier to just put this kid in prison for years rather than find out exactly what the hell was wrong with him in the first place. It's just the path society follows. It's easier to destroy than to build.
bamacre
Lifer
I didn't say he did. I was just bringing up a hypothetical situation.
I think the issue was quite cloudy before I got to it.
The fact is a 12 year old is being tried as an adult.
Legally, this kid wasn't considered responsible enough to do anything, like smoke or drink, or vote, or whatever. But I am trying to see why this became untrue after he comitted murder.
Twisting and turning? You mean like the twisting and turning of his legal state of adulthood?
LunarRay
Diamond Member
Well... examine your last para again.. and you will see that - if he did as you say - his rational mind was on vacation and over taken by passion. Additionally, I don't think the act carries premeditation (even though that could occur up to the instant of the attack) But there in lies the issue... how can a 12 year old formulate "premeditation" of a crime that requies some grasp of the nexus between the battery on the person and the death. How could he know that death would occur and how could a finder of fact conclude the same. The ignoring of pleas, cries etc. assumes facts not in evidence to my understanding or at least not proven and in my opinion would tend to mitagate to a disturbed mind of a 12 year old. The after the fact issue of not being aware of what had just occured in court upon sentencing indicates to me a complete absence of rational linkage.
I have an opinion as well on Moonie's probable agenda for the DDA.. I've no doubt he has higher plans for his career and this case May or May not have furthered them. I'd have balked at trying a case that I did not believe in if I were a DDA so he believed the case was correctly charged and that how it affected his career did not enter his mind... IMO
HamburgerBoy
Lifer
At the age of twelve, jail will just make him worse when he is let go. Just torture and execute the little brat.
How many seven year olds have actually committed murder, especially over something like a PBS cartoon? Aside from a few mental defects, no seven year old would even contemplate it. A twelve year old on the other hand is plenty old to know that murder is wrong.
How many seven year olds have actually committed murder, especially over something like a PBS cartoon? Aside from a few mental defects, no seven year old would even contemplate it. A twelve year old on the other hand is plenty old to know that murder is wrong.
Let me say this one last time. Murder is wrong and if you murder someone you should be held responsible for their death end of story. You must think me to be naive to believe that a 12 year old does not know enough to understand that stabbing someone with a knife over and over again will not lead to death. Unless this kid was mentally retard as well then maybe you'd have a point. Yet no evidence has come to light that I am aware of that this kid did not have the mental capacity of a normal 12 year old.
Another point....This is not about whether or not he planned this act out but the nature of the act and how it should be dealt with. The will and determination to kill a person does not always equate to "premeditation". There have been many cases where people who have committed murder and did so only because they had the will and determination to carry out the act even though they never planned it. So I don't understand where you are coming from with your post when you mention "premeditation".
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