Boy dies after refusing transfusion over religion

[1prophet]

Not old enough to make adult decisions but if he committed a heinous crime should he be tried as an adult?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

 

[Jeff7]

?If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.? - Carl Sagan

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

Do let us know when you've figured out who's got the correct interpretation of the Bible.🙂 I believe that various portions of the Bible have many very different interpretations, all of which are deemed "correct" by those doing the interpreting.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
?If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.? - Carl Sagan

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

Do let us know when you've figured out who's got the correct interpretation of the Bible.🙂 I believe that various portions of the Bible have many very different interpretations, all of which are deemed "correct" by those doing the interpreting.

Jeff I interpret that you are correct. There many different interpretions and according to who is doing the reading that one is correct and every one else is wrong

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Tizyler
This shit aggravates me to no end. What a waste of life.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses. The cynic in me says, "No, this was not a waste of life."


The heart in me says, "what an idiot."

I cannot describe how much I loathe this sect of Christianity...I would hardly call it Christian.

Originally posted by: Kev
This is sad, and definitely not a case for Darwin award. I saw the movie Jesus Camp and it is terrifying how these kids get so indoctrinated into these stupid beliefs. At 14 he is still a kid and the gov't should have stepped in.

Learn some facts, dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt but Repub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

If real, it's a waste of time anyway.

Originally posted by: Tweak155


Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yeah uhmm...it says nothing about a blood transfusion. :roll:

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

To the best of my knowledge "abstaining from blood" refers to not drinking the blood of scarificed animals.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Anubis
darwin award

:thumbsup:

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Tizyler
This shit aggravates me to no end. What a waste of life.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses. The cynic in me says, "No, this was not a waste of life."


The heart in me says, "what an idiot."

I cannot describe how much I loathe this sect of Christianity...I would hardly call it Christian.

Originally posted by: Kev
This is sad, and definitely not a case for Darwin award. I saw the movie Jesus Camp and it is terrifying how these kids get so indoctrinated into these stupid beliefs. At 14 he is still a kid and the gov't should have stepped in.

Learn some facts,dork. dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt butRepub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

If real, it's a waste of time anyway.

Originally posted by: Tweak155


Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yeah uhmm...it says nothing about a blood transfusion. :roll:

You must a Christian. And I have witnessed a "Jesus Camp" They offer nothing more then a "bigoted with us or against us" view on life. Jesus said the second greatest commandment of all is "Love thy neighbor" These "Jesus Camps" do not teach this.

 

[Bateluer]

I didn't read the entire thread, it'd only anger me more so. The boy was obviously indoctrinated and should have been given the transfusion.

This isn't the first time the Watchtower has coerced some of the members into suicide either, there are several websites dedicated to bringing it down.

 

[imported_Mike]

Natural selection FTW!

 

[RESmonkey]

LOL RELIGION

 

[SlitheryDee]

The state's decision was fine. I just can't get over the fact that he actually chose to die when there was even the slimmest chance of living. Even at my youngest and dumbest that's a decision that I never would have made. Of course I've had my doubts about the magic man behind the curtain and his land of gumdrops and candy canes for as long as I can remember.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: RESmonkey
LOL RELIGION

Time for a new meme - LOLClergy.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
Why? The world is a better place without him.

So you felt the worldwide betterment too eh? Thought I was the only one. 😀isgust;

His death did not make the world a better or worse place.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Learn some facts, dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt but Repub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

Out of curiosity, why are you criticizing Al Gore for Jesus Camp? As far as I know, he had nothing to do with Jesus Camp.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: TehMac
Learn some facts, dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt but Repub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

Out of curiosity, why are you criticizing Al Gore for Jesus Camp? As far as I know, he had nothing to do with Jesus Camp.

As far I know I he did not have any thing to do with it. I saw it on ABC World News tonight. I also had the displeasure of visiting one in person

 

[FrustratedUser]

Originally posted by: Wapp
A 14 year old can be allowed to kill himself but I can't pay some whore to suck me off.

LOL

 

[Jadow]

let him die. Darwin FTW. Strengthin the Gene Pool. At 14 I was old enough to know better, this F-tard should have been as well.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Tizyler
This shit aggravates me to no end. What a waste of life.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses. The cynic in me says, "No, this was not a waste of life."


The heart in me says, "what an idiot."

I cannot describe how much I loathe this sect of Christianity...I would hardly call it Christian.

Originally posted by: Kev
This is sad, and definitely not a case for Darwin award. I saw the movie Jesus Camp and it is terrifying how these kids get so indoctrinated into these stupid beliefs. At 14 he is still a kid and the gov't should have stepped in.

Learn some facts, dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt but Repub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

If real, it's a waste of time anyway.

Originally posted by: Tweak155


Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yeah uhmm...it says nothing about a blood transfusion. :roll:

Says to abstain from blood... sorry not every rule/law is written out word for word in the bible. It is left for personal interpretation. If a doctor said "abstain from alcohol" (something else you eat/drink) does that mean you can just transfuse it? Yeah that makes more sense. Good call.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

Yes, but I'm quite sure he'll argue that it's only if you consume blood, not transfuse. See, you can always interpret it in a manner that's most favorable for the circumstances and use it as a source of condemnation otherwise.

I don't know where people get the idea that you can interpret the Bible any way you please any more than you can interpret everyday conversation or text the way you please. Otherwise, I would just interpret what you just said to mean that you love me and want to buy me a PS3 for my birthday 😛 Does it make it true? Of course not! It would be ridiculous, even crazy, to interpret what you said that way. Words must have fairly rigid meanings that are agreed upon, and the context in which something is said or written is of enormous importance. Anyone who's ever misunderstood what someone has said because he/she didn't hear the entirety of what was said knows this. You shouldn't take something out of context if you want to know the truth, and this applies to scripture just like it does to anything else, and even more so.

That being said, looking at the historical and textual context will give you the correct and only valid interpretation. Reading from the start of that chapter, you see that what was said in verse 29 is part of a letter summarizing the decisions concerning what laws (rites and traditions) of the law of Moses that the Gentiles should hold to. These 4 things they were told to abstain from were picked not only because they were sins (which they were), but because the Gentiles, coming out of religions which practiced these things and still living among people who did these things regularly, would be especially susceptible to temptation to fall back into the old way of life.

The first thing they were to abstain from, "things offered to idols", was because at that time food and other items were offered to the idols of the gods that they worshiped, and clearly that would be against the commandments and will of God (specifically the 1+2 of 10 commandments, among others).

The second thing they were to abstain from, blood, was because of all the pagan and sorcery/witchcraft practices of that time period that involved letting or ingesting blood for rituals (whether human or animal). You still hear about some of this type of stuff going on, usually from obscure new age cults or in fiction, but back then it was a relatively widespread practice. This had nothing to do with medical transfusions for the purpose of saving lives, and again I say that no where in the Bible are transfusions spoke against. Learn to examine things contextually, and compare scripture to scripture, and you will see this.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: tyler811

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: Tizyler
This shit aggravates me to no end. What a waste of life.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses. The cynic in me says, "No, this was not a waste of life."


The heart in me says, "what an idiot."

I cannot describe how much I loathe this sect of Christianity...I would hardly call it Christian.

Originally posted by: Kev
This is sad, and definitely not a case for Darwin award. I saw the movie Jesus Camp and it is terrifying how these kids get so indoctrinated into these stupid beliefs. At 14 he is still a kid and the gov't should have stepped in.

Learn some facts,dork. dork. Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with Jesus Camp.
As for Jesus Camp, I know people who go there, and it's hard to say what what what, because for one thing, Al Gore's "documentary" was full of shit, I'd be hard pressed to think Jesus Camp wasn't a last attempt butRepub hating liberal bigots and idiots.

If real, it's a waste of time anyway.

Originally posted by: Tweak155


Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yeah uhmm...it says nothing about a blood transfusion. :roll:

You must a Christian. And I have witnessed a "Jesus Camp" They offer nothing more then a "bigoted with us or against us" view on life. Jesus said the second greatest commandment of all is "Love thy neighbor" These "Jesus Camps" do not teach this.

And you must [be] a foreigner.

Seriously, I don't partake in that. But you are correct that love thy neighbor (as you would love thyself) is the second greatest commandment.

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Captante

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

To the best of my knowledge "abstaining from blood" refers to not drinking the blood of scarificed animals.

Refer to my other response on the previous page 🙂

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

I didn't realize they did blood transfusions when the bible was written. Seriously, you'd have to be a complete moron to interpret the bible that way. :roll:

To interpret it as directly saying "no blood transfusions", yes, because clearly it doesn't say that. Good catch ;-)

EDIT:

There are many situations today that didn't/can't apply to back then like "murder with a nuclear bomb", but I think you'd agree that is against the bible...

 

[Tweak155]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Tweak155

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: pulse8
This is the problem with a belief in the afterlife.

No, this is the problem with not knowing the Bible. Uncleaness comes out of man's mind, not from anything physical - Jesus is the one who spoke against the Jews who practiced ritualistic beliefs out of self righteousness, and Paul spoke against Judaizers who tried to do the same thing within Christianity. Yes, you can be physically dirty, but that kind of dirtiness is inconsequential. There is nothing in the Bible (whch JW's claim they follow) that prohibits someone from undergoing a transfusion. Because of ignorance, this young boy died when he could have lived, and that's the fault of people who teach lies or are willingly ignorant of the truth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using medical technology to save someone's life, barring that someone else's life isn't taken away (if someone voluntarily gives up his/her own life to save someone, that is a different story).

Ignorance FTL. 🙁

Acts 15:29

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm

Says to abstain from blood.

Yes, but I'm quite sure he'll argue that it's only if you consume blood, not transfuse. See, you can always interpret it in a manner that's most favorable for the circumstances and use it as a source of condemnation otherwise.

I don't know where people get the idea that you can interpret the Bible any way you please any more than you can interpret everyday conversation or text the way you please. Otherwise, I would just interpret what you just said to mean that you love me and want to buy me a PS3 for my birthday 😛 Does it make it true? Of course not! It would be ridiculous, even crazy, to interpret what you said that way. Words must have fairly rigid meanings that are agreed upon, and the context in which something is said or written is of enormous importance. Anyone who's ever misunderstood what someone has said because he/she didn't hear the entirety of what was said knows this. You shouldn't take something out of context if you want to know the truth, and this applies to scripture just like it does to anything else, and even more so.

That being said, looking at the historical and textual context will give you the correct and only valid interpretation. Reading from the start of that chapter, you see that what was said in verse 29 is part of a letter summarizing the decisions concerning what laws (rites and traditions) of the law of Moses that the Gentiles should hold to. These 4 things they were told to abstain from were picked not only because they were sins (which they were), but because the Gentiles, coming out of religions which practiced these things and still living among people who did these things regularly, would be especially susceptible to temptation to fall back into the old way of life.

The first thing they were to abstain from, "things offered to idols", was because at that time food and other items were offered to the idols of the gods that they worshiped, and clearly that would be against the commandments and will of God (specifically the 1+2 of 10 commandments, among others).

The second thing they were to abstain from, blood, was because of all the pagan and sorcery/witchcraft practices of that time period that involved letting or ingesting blood for rituals (whether human or animal). You still hear about some of this type of stuff going on, usually from obscure new age cults or in fiction, but back then it was a relatively widespread practice. This had nothing to do with medical transfusions for the purpose of saving lives, and again I say that no where in the Bible are transfusions spoke against. Learn to examine things contextually, and compare scripture to scripture, and you will see this.

YOU choose to apply it to those situations because that is when it was brought up/reinforced. In Deuteronomy it talks about idols which is in Hebrew scripture. Bringing up of the law when something violates it only makes sense, but that doesn't limit it to that one situation.

Learn to be more open minded.

EDIT:

And if the bible wanted to be as specific as you are being, why didn't it say from the ways in which you were acting, or in these situations or something along those lines? It doesn't. It says "abstain from blood".

 

[CorCentral]

I'll take liver for a $1,000!