Boxing, health, and my wife

[MagickMan]

I'm 43 and I've been boxing since I was old enough to join a club (18). I started as a LHW but have been a HW since I turned 20. Though I've taken breaks, they've rarely lasted for more than 6 months. All this time it's largely been amateur/club fighting (155-18), with a few (rare) lesser pro bouts (5-0). I bring it up in here because all this time, the training for it has been my main method of staying in shape.

Now however, my wife has seriously turned against the sport. Last month I had a bout at the gym against a young guy who is 21 y/o, he's a protege of sorts. While I did win the match, I got my bell rung pretty hard and suffered a mild-moderate concussion (the kid is really strong and caught me with a hook ~3cm below the temple). This is pretty uncommon for me, and counting this last time, I've only had 3 in my "career". Since my wife was at the fight she ended up taking me to the ER, and while we were there she was fine. I had a standard exam, then the doc recommended a CT and I had one of those. Long story short, I was okay and just needed to rest and take it easy for a few days, no boxing for a month (that seemed excessive, but was likely the right call, given my age).

After we got home, however, my wife freaked out and broke down. She's been to all my fights since we've been together, and has enjoyed them, but until now she hasn't seen me get hurt. I don't want to quit boxing, I love it, throughout my adult life it's been the one constant that I can connect with, and as I mentioned at the first, it's a great source of fitness for me. However, she's adamant that I retire and won't budge on the matter. I see where she's coming from, even with the headgear (mandatory at the club) it's not a "safe" sport, I've had good friends become disabled, one in particular is in a nursing home at 48 and now wears a diaper and can barely feed himself. That's the main reason I never turned pro, it wasn't worth the risk and the shelf life of a HW boxer is terrible, to put it lightly. While I do have some of the usual issues that come with being an "old" fighter; carpal bossing, carpal tunnel, mild osteoarthritis in my knuckles and shoulders, and bursitis in my left hip, but overall I'm in better shape than most boxers who are my age.

While I can continue the training and mentor others, and not box, it feels wrong. My monthly fights are what I build up to, they help me vent and give me a source of focus. Is it time for me to hang em up and maybe just work at being a trainer? I sure as hell don't want to lose my wife, if it came down to it I'd choose her, but I'm kind of angry that she's putting me in a position where I have to. On the fitness side, I'm worried that in the long run I'll lose motivation and flab out, since I won't have the same goals anymore. I don't want to change and I don't feel old, despite some aches, but maybe I should look at this last incident as a wake-up call and stop now.

Any ideas on how to keep my drive and intensity during workouts? Any other considerations I need to keep in mind with retirement? Damn, this sucks.

 

[smackababy]

I'd imagine this situation comes to all athletes. I can only imagine how hard it must be fore professionals to have to give up what they had been doing.

As far as keeping your fire for training, I don't know if you really can. You might have to switch up the workouts if working out is not something you find enjoyable on its own.

For the wife, if she hasn't seen you hurt, she might have had an initial shock of "this is dangerous" and is over reacting a bit. Maybe talk to her about possibly slowing it down (instead of a monthly fight, maybe every 3 or 4 months?). There might be some common ground you guys can find. Take that with a grain of salt though, since I don't know your wife.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I don't know you other than this post, so I'm not going to pretend to have the right advice. With that said and based on what I know, I would be extremely hesitant to move forward if I was in your situation. You aren't very old, but boxing is pretty rough. The combination of the two doesn't seem like a good idea.

I think she's probably doing you a favor even though it obviously isn't what you want, at least right now. Sometimes the people around you are in a better position to make this kind of call. It's hard to do what's right when you've been in the system for so long that you can't see the world without it.

As for working out, I don't think you'll have trouble adapting to something else if you put your mind to it. You're probably a pretty dedicated person, so focus that energy on a different workout schedule. Set a realistic goal then keep your head down and do it.

 

[2timer]

Just deny the urge to quit and keep going. You'll have a diversion and purpose until the day when you really get laid out, then when you wake up 3 days later wearing a hospital gown, you'll know at that point it's time to lay the gloves down.

Good luck to you, I admire your passion.

 

[jaedaliu]

Your wife is worried about you. Concussions are very very bad. Can you do boxing for conditioning? or do you have no interest in it? Training also sounds like it would be a lot of fun. I guess you wouldn't get to hit people any more.

My wife worked with an ER doc, who told the high school students (and their parents) that suffered their first concussion that they should consider quitting football. Yes, he was extreme, but each concussion is worse and has more lasting effects. If the kid isn't good enough for a college scholarship, is there a need to continue with a sport where he will get another concussion

 

[momeNt]

I agree with her. Brain trauma is cumulative and never gets better. Also subconcussive blows are just as serious as consussive blows. They have in fact done studies on high school football players and the ones that never sat out with a concussion showed MORE cognitive loss than those that missed week(s) due to a concussion. So don't think that concussions are the marker of putting yourself at risk of dementia, it is getting hit (PERIOD).

Find another way to vent your frustration and maybe still train/coach younger boxers? Get a gun and shoot stuff, hit golf balls, hit something that won't hit you back in the head.

 

[blackdogdeek]

If your wife were a boxer and you saw her get hit hard enough she had to go to the ER to have tests run, would you want her to continue boxing?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You can spar without turning the dial all the way up. You can get the hardcore aggression out on the pads and bags. If knowing someone is going to be throwing hands with bad intentions is what jacks you up though, you may be an adrenaline junkie. That is a hard fix to replace brudda.

Personally: I have found BJJ and CSW a tremendous challenge. Rolling is a whole different energy system, and a tremendous workout. Like yourself, I am a HW (kickboxing and full contact karate are my bag) Though I do box too. And having done it since 1980, I also tend to handle my business with whomever I am in with. But, on the mats, I have 175lbs guys I struggle to keep from tapping me. And black belts smaller than that grapple fuck me.

Point being, maybe it is time to change your focus. You can still box of course. Just spar light contact to the head with cats you can trust not to be assholes. Meanwhile, you will get all the intensity you can handle on the mats rolling every class. And you have my personal assurance you will get excellent conditioning. Just something to think about.

 

[iluvdeal]

I can't blame your wife for wanting you to stop, with all the research out on how concussions affect the brain, I view willingly taking blows to head whether it's through football or boxing like I do smoking where you are willingly risking your long term health. Her actions may anger you, but remind yourself she's only doing this because she cares about you and your future, plus her reasoning is valid, she's not being irrational here. BTW have you read Who Moved My Cheese? If not, I recommend you do.

Rather than view this as the end, think of it as the start of a new chapter. Take up a new sport which doesn't cause you to lose brain cells. For example, why not round out your striking game with a ground game by taking some BJJ classes? Do you know Ed O'Neill from the show Married with Children? He took his first class at age 40 (he tells a funny story about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSt5OQ4zHc). Any bike routes/trails around you? Try taking up mountain or road biking. There's a ton of other physical activities out there you can do besides a punishing sport like boxing, you just gotta go out and try them.

 

[Whisper]

Your wife is worried about you. Concussions are very very bad. Can you do boxing for conditioning? or do you have no interest in it? Training also sounds like it would be a lot of fun. I guess you wouldn't get to hit people any more.

My wife worked with an ER doc, who told the high school students (and their parents) that suffered their first concussion that they should consider quitting football. Yes, he was extreme, but each concussion is worse and has more lasting effects. If the kid isn't good enough for a college scholarship, is there a need to continue with a sport where he will get another concussion

There actually isn't really any solid research definitely supporting the idea that with >1 concussion, the after-effects last longer and/or lead to greater tissue damage (let alone any research strongly identifying that concussions do in fact lead to significant, observable lasting damage/scarring in the brain). In general, after a concussion, a full recovery is the norm. However, the brain does tend to take longer to recover from injury with increasing age. At 43, I'd probably be ready to hang up the gloves, but that's just me.

 

[iluvdeal]

There actually isn't really any solid research definitely supporting the idea that with >1 concussion, the after-effects last longer and/or lead to greater tissue damage (let alone any research strongly identifying that concussions do in fact lead to significant, observable lasting damage/scarring in the brain). In general, after a concussion, a full recovery is the norm. However, the brain does tend to take longer to recover from injury with increasing age. At 43, I'd probably be ready to hang up the gloves, but that's just me.

Check out this Rolling Stone article about concussions and high school football, it's eye opening: http://www.hoffmancentre.com/assets...g-Stone-January-31st-2013-Paul_Solotaroff.pdf

 

[Whisper]

Check out this Rolling Stone article about concussions and high school football, it's eye opening: http://www.hoffmancentre.com/assets...g-Stone-January-31st-2013-Paul_Solotaroff.pdf

The jury is very much still out on concussions and long-term effects, despite the huge media billing that CTE (which is a relatively poorly-defined and not very thoroughly researched condition as of yet) is getting at the moment.

At the same time, football may very well represent a special case, given the frequency and potential force of the multiple non-concussive impacts that players may sustain in any given game.

 

[MagickMan]

All good points. I'm aware that all blunt force trauma to the head can be cumulative, and even though I've only been concussed 3 times it's possible that in the long term I could develop severe complications despite currently having a clean MRI. I know hanging up the gloves is probably the correct thing to do, for my health and my marriage (she hasn't backed down at all), but I'm not really sure how to do it. It's a big part of my life, you know? I've tried MMA sports and JJ and they don't do it for me, they just aren't my thing. I did take Krav Maga for 5 years but that's as far from a sport as you can get in fighting.

With running, rowing, swimming, and weights, along with the bag, drills, and sparring, I spend ~2-3 hrs most days working out. Then after a month of that, I get to work somebody over. It's my reward for all I've put in. There's a thing where near the end of the last round, if the guy isn't down or out, there's a look in his eyes that shows he'd rather be almost anywhere in the world besides that ring. Maybe it's not very "sportsmanlike", but I love that.

My wife boxing? That would be cute as hell! She's 4' 10" and ~104 lbs, but she's feisty. I've tried teaching her how to box but it's hopeless. She can't keep her hands up to save her life and any type of little tap to her face makes her completely lose her cool.

 

[yuku]

Have you watched a very old movie " The Cinderella Man" ? The hero in the movie has the same occupation as you do and his caring wife are all the motivation for him to move on.You should watch it and it may give you some idea about your puzzle.

 

[jaedaliu]

The jury is very much still out on concussions and long-term effects, despite the huge media billing that CTE (which is a relatively poorly-defined and not very thoroughly researched condition as of yet) is getting at the moment.

At the same time, football may very well represent a special case, given the frequency and potential force of the multiple non-concussive impacts that players may sustain in any given game.

I wouldn't use a statement like "the jury is very much still out." A quick scholar.google search and abstract reading shows that all signs point to multiple concussions having chronic effects, even among amateur athletes, but no completely conclusive results.

 

[z1ggy]

Hey man I feel your pain 100%. I did MMA for years along with taking breaks when I moved and just did regular traditional BJJ.

Last year I was training for my 2nd (technically first, because the first fight the guy forfeited somehow before it even happened) amateur fight. The place where I trained only trained professional and amateurs and the "weekend warriors" were kind of shunned a bit. Everybody was really nice, but it was super intense. Much much different than other gyms I went to in the past, where everybody got a fair shot, and then you only really sparred once in a while.

Well long story short, I was full out sparring a pro fighter who I think had some anger/patience issues. He caught me with an uppercut I never saw coming which dazed me, then hit me with a 2-3 on the way down. I was out cold for about 1-2 seconds, but then got up and felt fine. Basically, I had a really bad concussion, was out of work for a week and my brain wasn't the same for probably over 2-3 months. Memory loss, difficulty solving math problems (Engineer here...) and just over all felt weird.

Needless to say, I had to give it up. I really did love it, but my health was top priority. I new I wasn't taking this any where in life other than for fun/Amer fights, but it wasn't going to result in any money.

So my advice to you, is the advice I hope to follow myself someday, although it will never fully substitute for what things used to be. My plan is to just go back to traditional gi/no gi BJJ and maybe some non-sparring muy thai. I can still get a work out, practice my form and at least maintain something of what I had. It will never ever replace a guy on the other end tossing punches/kicks my way, but it's as good as it can get with out risking another concussion.

Additionally, I may try out krav maga. Ever since the only street fight I was ever in, and the guy attempted to gouge my eyes out... I realized a REAL fight requires other skills besides a good arm bar.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

All good points. I'm aware that all blunt force trauma to the head can be cumulative, and even though I've only been concussed 3 times it's possible that in the long term I could develop severe complications despite currently having a clean MRI. I know hanging up the gloves is probably the correct thing to do, for my health and my marriage (she hasn't backed down at all), but I'm not really sure how to do it. It's a big part of my life, you know? I've tried MMA sports and JJ and they don't do it for me, they just aren't my thing. I did take Krav Maga for 5 years but that's as far from a sport as you can get in fighting.

With running, rowing, swimming, and weights, along with the bag, drills, and sparring, I spend ~2-3 hrs most days working out. Then after a month of that, I get to work somebody over. It's my reward for all I've put in. There's a thing where near the end of the last round, if the guy isn't down or out, there's a look in his eyes that shows he'd rather be almost anywhere in the world besides that ring. Maybe it's not very "sportsmanlike", but I love that.

You are a bit of a sadist. Not judging, just observing.

Now let me give you the straight dope. If you are lucky, you will keep getting older. And the young studs will keep coming. You will end up on the other side of the beatdowns more and more often. Your brain will continue to ping pong around your skull, and you can look forward to the issues that go with that. Or you can channel your aggression and hostility elsewhere, and stay with the woman you love. Pretty easy choice really.

BTW, what gym are you in, and what state? Any vids of your fights? Good pics?

 

[CPA]

How about going from boxing to Jiu Jitsu. You can still compete, get a great workout and don't have to worry about concussions.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I'm surprised she didn't break down like that earlier.

You are 45, isn't your health/well being more important than some hobby/sport?

Boxing is a pretty high risk sport (if you ask me). I would move on......

 

[vi edit]

You are 43. I'm assuming you are a significant contributer to the household income. Put yourself into her shoes. If you take a good crack to the bean that turns you into mongaloid at this point in your life you really f'up her world. You're in your primary earning years, shoveling money into retirement and she's (assuming) a similar age and doesn't want to fear losing you and/or having to restart at this point in hers.

If you are both in your early 20's that's on thing. Mid to late 40's is a totally different game. Not nearly as much room for failure there.

At some point all of us need to hang up the gloves/shoes/pads and accept that some younger, stronger, faster kid is going to put a serious hurt on us.

 

[momeNt]

All good points. I'm aware that all blunt force trauma to the head can be cumulative, and even though I've only been concussed 3 times it's possible that in the long term I could develop severe complications despite currently having a clean MRI. I know hanging up the gloves is probably the correct thing to do, for my health and my marriage (she hasn't backed down at all), but I'm not really sure how to do it. It's a big part of my life, you know? I've tried MMA sports and JJ and they don't do it for me, they just aren't my thing. I did take Krav Maga for 5 years but that's as far from a sport as you can get in fighting.

With running, rowing, swimming, and weights, along with the bag, drills, and sparring, I spend ~2-3 hrs most days working out. Then after a month of that, I get to work somebody over. It's my reward for all I've put in. There's a thing where near the end of the last round, if the guy isn't down or out, there's a look in his eyes that shows he'd rather be almost anywhere in the world besides that ring. Maybe it's not very "sportsmanlike", but I love that.

My wife boxing? That would be cute as hell! She's 4' 10" and ~104 lbs, but she's feisty. I've tried teaching her how to box but it's hopeless. She can't keep her hands up to save her life and any type of little tap to her face makes her completely lose her cool.

Sounds like maybe you need 1 more fight to convince you. Take 2 months to prepare this time and do whatever you have to do to get in the ring with somebody that is likely to seriously hurt you and is on their way to a championship belt. Everybody wins in this.

1. You get to fight, and you also get convinced to quit because of how badly you get beaten.
2. Your wife is happy because you now quit.
3. You get to say you fought the guy when in a few years he is holding up the belt.

 

[MagickMan]

You are a bit of a sadist. Not judging, just observing.

Now let me give you the straight dope. If you are lucky, you will keep getting older. And the young studs will keep coming. You will end up on the other side of the beatdowns more and more often. Your brain will continue to ping pong around your skull, and you can look forward to the issues that go with that. Or you can channel your aggression and hostility elsewhere, and stay with the woman you love. Pretty easy choice really.

BTW, what gym are you in, and what state? Any vids of your fights? Good pics?

I wouldn't say "sadist", I'm not in there to injure anyone and I follow all the rules and etiquette, to the point I'm often referred to as the "gentleman" boxer of our club. I'm the first to help someone if there's a 10 count, and I always give my opponent a hug and some praise, it takes guts to step into a ring. However, there really is that "eye of the tiger", it's a basic need to see who is better and stronger, and it's very hard to let go of. I box in a Knoxville club, which is great, we have ~2k members and guys come in from other areas to fight too. I don't put much direct personal info online, too many idiots out there who take advantage of that kind of thing.

I'm surprised she didn't break down like that earlier.

You are 45, isn't your health/well being more important than some hobby/sport?

Boxing is a pretty high risk sport (if you ask me). I would move on......

43, and we've only been together a couple years. She's seen me lose a fight on points, but never knocked down or "hurt". Although I wasn't knocked down this last time, I did get a standing aid, and then the bell rang and I took a breather and pulled myself together.

You are 43. I'm assuming you are a significant contributer to the household income. Put yourself into her shoes. If you take a good crack to the bean that turns you into mongaloid at this point in your life you really f'up her world. You're in your primary earning years, shoveling money into retirement and she's (assuming) a similar age and doesn't want to fear losing you and/or having to restart at this point in hers.

If you are both in your early 20's that's on thing. Mid to late 40's is a totally different game. Not nearly as much room for failure there.

At some point all of us need to hang up the gloves/shoes/pads and accept that some younger, stronger, faster kid is going to put a serious hurt on us.

I don't work anymore, I'm retired with a decent amount of money, and she'd be taken care of if anything happened to me. We talked more this morning and she said she can deal with broken bones, sore joints, and the like, but damage to my mind, and effectively "who I am", scares the hell out of her. It seems I wasn't myself and a little out of it when we were going to the ER and that unnerved her. I'm adding that to what I need to consider and she has a great point, I don't remember anything between the end of the fight and when we arrived at the hospital.

Yeah, she's right, but I just don't like it.

 

[Phanuel]

I like CPA's suggestion. Martial arts are quite fun and can be far safer.

 

[MagickMan]

Sounds like maybe you need 1 more fight to convince you. Take 2 months to prepare this time and do whatever you have to do to get in the ring with somebody that is likely to seriously hurt you and is on their way to a championship belt. Everybody wins in this.

1. You get to fight, and you also get convinced to quit because of how badly you get beaten.
2. Your wife is happy because you now quit.
3. You get to say you fought the guy when in a few years he is holding up the belt.

WADR, that's nuts. I've fought a lot of "up and comers", and with my luck I'd put him down. I'm just as strong as I've ever been, though not as quick, but what I've lost in speed I make up for in experience and guile. To some degree, everyone telegraphs what they're about to do, and the more cocky and overconfident they are (that almost always goes along with how many expectations people have in them) the worse it is. When you get in on someone and counter effectively, it can go south for them really fast.

Not meaning to brag, but I did beat (on points in a 3/3) someone who was the #3 or 4 contender, depending on which organization you ask, not that long ago. He was a great puncher, my forearms hurt for days, but his defense was poor.

 

[MagickMan]

I like CPA's suggestion. Martial arts are quite fun and can be far safer.

I don't like the wrestling aspects, hell, I don't even like to be clenched in a fight.