Both sides are not the same

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,449
16,889
136
Now that dems have officially taken over the house can we all look at and acknowledge that both parties are not the same?

Does anyone remember what the first pieces of legislation were that the Republicans passed when they gained control of the house?

Last year it was the tax cut where the rich got the biggest cuts and the middle class got a temporary cut.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h637

What's the first bill Democrats pass? Why it's an anti corruption bill and no its not an anti trump bill.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...se-democrats-anti-corruption-bill-hr-1-pelosi

Anyone think Republicans will be passing this in the senate? Lol, hell no!
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
878
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The lesser of two evils =/= good. But it's the best we've got.

Most honest folks in government have an overwhelming desire to fix things or even the odds or make lives whatever they deem "better." It comes from the idea that they know what's right for the citizens more than the citizens do themselves. I find this a very common idea among Democrats.

The dishonest ones flat out work to rig the system in their own favor and profit from their position. Some truly evil folks pursue a position in government out of a desire for control over their fellow man. Some, in their ignorance or religious fervor, attempt to bring back the good old days, days that weren't so good to begin with and complete with antiquated ideas on racial, sexual orientation and gender equality. We've seen too much of this with Trump and his supporters. Can you say Republicans?

To answer your question more directly, both sides want control but go about it in different ways. Republicans seem a bit mean spirited overall, and Democrats seem to think they know what's best for everyone regardless of what the citizens want. Democrats just love to rescue victims. Republicans just love to hate on folks.

So, the first act for the Republicans was to cut taxes, which dumb voters liked the sound of right up until they noticed it was cuts for the rich. And the Democrats are passing corruption legislation in an attempt (correct me if I'm wrong) to create a tool they can use to wrest power from the Republicans and can Trump's stupid ass. I'd personally say the Democrats are the lesser of the two evils, and by a considerable margin at this point. But both want control and for citizens to be beholding to them. The idea of limited government isn't on either party's agenda at the moment.

My ideal federal government would govern as little as possible, have true respect for states rights and individual freedoms, husband the public money gathered via taxes as if they had no right to spend it, and return as much power to the state level as possible. Equality and "fairness" laws should be in place so those who are wronged can seek redress in the courts, but those laws should specify purpose and concepts rather then hard numbers and quotas. And people who are offended by what someone else does should be told to piss off unless true harm is being done.

And some kind of intelligence test should be required in order to vote, even if I would fail it.

Sorry for rambling.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,449
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I don't think they are passing this bill to wrestle power away from Republicans but rather to restore our democracy.

Which one of these is a power grab or a direct attack on Republican power?

Campaign finance

Public financing of campaigns, powered by small donations. Under Sarbanes’s vision, the federal government would provide a voluntary 6-1 match for candidates for president and Congress, which means for every dollar a candidate raises from small donations, the federal government would match it six times over. The maximum small donation that could be matched would be capped at $200. “If you give $100 to a candidate that’s meeting those requirements, then that candidate would get another $600 coming in behind them,” Sarbanes told Vox this summer. “The evidence and the modeling is that most candidates can do as well or better in terms of the dollars they raise if they step into this new system.”
Support for a constitutional amendment to end Citizens United.
Passing the DISCLOSE Act, pushed by Rep. David Cicilline and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, both Democrats from Rhode Island. This would require Super PACs and “dark money” political organizations to make their donors public.
Passing the Honest Ads Act, championed by Sens. Amy Klobuchar (MN) and Mark Warner (VA) and introduced by Rep. Derek Kilmer (D-WA) in the House, which would require Facebook and Twitter to disclose the source of money for political ads on their platforms and share how much money was spent.
Disclosing any political spending by government contractors and slowing the flow of foreign money into the elections by targeting shell companies.
Restructuring the Federal Election Commission to have five commissioners instead of the current four, in order to break political gridlock.
Prohibiting any coordination between candidates and Super PACs.
Ethics

Requiring the president and vice president to disclose 10 years of his or her tax returns. Candidates for president and vice president must also do the same.
Stopping members of Congress from using taxpayer money to settle sexual harassment or discrimination cases.
Giving the Office of Government Ethics the power to do more oversight and enforcement and put in stricter lobbying registration requirements. These include more oversight into foreign agents by the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
Creating a new ethical code for the US Supreme Court, ensuring all branches of government are impacted by the new law.
Voting rights

Creating new national automatic voter registration that asks voters to opt out, rather than opt in, ensuring more people will be signed up to vote. Early voting, same-day voter registration, and online voter registration would also be promoted.
Making Election Day a holiday for federal employees and encouraging private sector businesses to do the same, requiring poll workers to provide a week’s notice if poll sites are changed, and making colleges and universities a voter registration agency (in addition to the DMV, etc), among other updates.
Ending partisan gerrymandering in federal elections and prohibiting voter roll purging. The bill would stop the use of non-forwardable mail being used as a way to remove voters from rolls.
Beefing up elections security, including requiring the director of national intelligence to do regular checks on foreign threats.
Recruiting and training more poll workers ahead of the 2020 election to cut down on long lines at the polls.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
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878
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I don't think they are passing this bill to wrestle power away from Republicans but rather to restore our democracy.

Which one of these is a power grab or a direct attack on Republican power?
I don't think it's a direct attack, but it will take the wind out of the Republican's funding sails more so that it will the Democrats. I so wish the Dems could say something other than "we're better than the Republicans," but at this point they are all we have.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,449
16,889
136
I don't think it's a direct attack, but it will take the wind out of the Republican's funding sails more so that it will the Democrats. I so wish the Dems could say something other than "we're better than the Republicans," but at this point they are all we have.

So none of the issues the bill addresses are issues for you? That's interesting because I'm pretty sure most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, support campaign finance reform and getting big money donors out of politics.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,663
6,726
126
So none of the issues the bill addresses are issues for you? That's interesting because I'm pretty sure most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, support campaign finance reform and getting big money donors out of politics.
It would happen in a heartbeat if we lived in a democracy.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
878
126
So none of the issues the bill addresses are issues for you? That's interesting because I'm pretty sure most Americans, regardless of political affiliation, support campaign finance reform and getting big money donors out of politics.

Please don't construe my comments to be a lack of support for campaign finance reform or any form of Republican support. I'm simply replying to another thread where the Democratic party is being lauded as superior to the Republicans. The Dems are just a slightly better tasting shit sandwich. Stop banging your own drum.

Very few folks who ever went into politics believe in small government and the philosophy of doing no harm. And if that person came along the American people probably wouldn't be smart enough to elect them.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,449
16,889
136
Please don't construe my comments to be a lack of support for campaign finance reform or any form of Republican support. I'm simply replying to another thread where the Democratic party is being lauded as superior to the Republicans. The Dems are just a slightly better tasting shit sandwich. Stop banging your own drum.

Very few folks who ever went into politics believe in small government and the philosophy of doing no harm. And if that person came along the American people probably wouldn't be smart enough to elect them.

I'm sorry I just can't get over the fact that you think democrats are a "slightly better tasting shit sandwich". One party passed tax cuts for the rich and removed oversight, and repealed health care from millions of people when they gained control, the other passed an anti corruption bill, passed health care reform that improved coverage for millions, fixed the opposing party's Medicaid part D issues, and passed wall street reform, and consumer protection bills.

You are either delusional or highly uninformed.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
878
126
I'm sorry I just can't get over the fact that you think democrats are a "slightly better tasting shit sandwich". One party passed tax cuts for the rich and removed oversight, and repealed health care from millions of people when they gained control, the other passed an anti corruption bill, passed health care reform that improved coverage for millions, fixed the opposing party's Medicaid part D issues, and passed wall street reform, and consumer protection bills.

You are either delusional or highly uninformed.
Maybe I'm just deplorable.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that's a very trollish comment. I appreciate your point of view. The Dems have done a bunch of fantastic stuff for the American people, but I don't believe for a second that if they achieved their desired level of control over the country that things would be all roses. We would be better off with Nancy Pelosi in the White House than the current occupant. Still doesn't make her or her party my heroes.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,284
4,951
136
Now that dems have officially taken over the house can we all look at and acknowledge that both parties are not the same?

Does anyone remember what the first pieces of legislation were that the Republicans passed when they gained control of the house?

Last year it was the tax cut where the rich got the biggest cuts and the middle class got a temporary cut.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/115-2017/h637

What's the first bill Democrats pass? Why it's an anti corruption bill and no its not an anti trump bill.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...se-democrats-anti-corruption-bill-hr-1-pelosi

Anyone think Republicans will be passing this in the senate? Lol, hell no!


Reading the linked article I do agree with most of it. The only points that I don't really agree with is the 10 year disclosure of income taxes and stopping voter registration purging entirely. The method of purging is the issue not the purging of inactive a dead voters. I agree that stopping the use of non-forwardable mail is the right thing to do.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,864
55,076
136
Reading the linked article I do agree with most of it. The only points that I don't really agree with is the 10 year disclosure of income taxes and stopping voter registration purging entirely. The method of purging is the issue not the purging of inactive a dead voters. I agree that stopping the use of non-forwardable mail is the right thing to do.

Why do you disagree with ten years of tax returns? Isn’t it absolutely essential to know who public officials wielding enormous amounts of power are getting paid by?
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
15,809
10,977
136
I don't think it's a direct attack, but it will take the wind out of the Republican's funding sails more so that it will the Democrats. I so wish the Dems could say something other than "we're better than the Republicans," but at this point they are all we have.

Oh puhleeze... a speedlimit takes the wind out of the 100mph drivers more than it does the 45mph drivers.. is that really your reasoning?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,223
32,736
136
Maybe I'm just deplorable.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that's a very trollish comment. I appreciate your point of view. The Dems have done a bunch of fantastic stuff for the American people, but I don't believe for a second that if they achieved their desired level of control over the country that things would be all roses. We would be better off with Nancy Pelosi in the White House than the current occupant. Still doesn't make her or her party my heroes.
Thank you for criticizing the Democrats for what you think they might do instead of for all the things they actually do, you fucking idiot. Seriously you are a fucking toolbag idiot fuckstain. You are a fucking retarded maggot. "I will not give Democrats credit for things they do that I agree with because I think if they get full power it won't be perfect." How can one person manage to be so dumb?

Oh that is right it isn't your fault because you hate yourself and have been conditioned from birth to fucking hate liberals to the point that you have to criticize them for imaginary transgressions in order to avoid giving them credit for things they do right.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,851
146
Please don't construe my comments to be a lack of support for campaign finance reform or any form of Republican support. I'm simply replying to another thread where the Democratic party is being lauded as superior to the Republicans. The Dems are just a slightly better tasting shit sandwich. Stop banging your own drum.

Very few folks who ever went into politics believe in small government and the philosophy of doing no harm. And if that person came along the American people probably wouldn't be smart enough to elect them.

Uh, well then can you frame them in a way where you're not tacitly criticizing it and also defending Republicans? Because that's all you've actually done in this thread despite you insisting you're not doing that at all.

Objectively they have been. You keep claiming the Democrats will be just as awful while providing literally fucking nothing to support that. How about you practice what you preach and do that first? Or maybe stop banging the drum on your head because its clearly causing brain damage.

Oh so you're one of those completely full of shit Libertarians? That enjoy the shit out of all the things that our government made possible and now believe that you'd have been so much better off with a tiny government?

I'd tell you to eat shit but sounds like you've been on a steady diet of it because you enjoy it. You're certainly full of it.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,851
146
Maybe I'm just deplorable.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that's a very trollish comment. I appreciate your point of view. The Dems have done a bunch of fantastic stuff for the American people, but I don't believe for a second that if they achieved their desired level of control over the country that things would be all roses. We would be better off with Nancy Pelosi in the White House than the current occupant. Still doesn't make her or her party my heroes.

You sure seem to be intent on showing you are.

Its never going to be all roses so that's a pointless argument.

Well at least you can be slightly objective, not that you deserve any credit for that (that's the assumed bare minimum for partaking in discourse, yet for some fucking reason conservatives routinely can't even offer that). And then you have to constantly shit all over it to reinforce your point that well damnit you just can't support Democrats, no matter what.

Why would you view any political party as "heroic"? That's exactly the type of shit we need to stop. Politicians are there to manage society's foundations and deal with issues as they arise, not to be heroes, or other nonsense. We don't need heroes or saviors or other bullshit. We need sane, rational people that will work towards the well being of the American people.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,803
31,243
146
Maybe I'm just deplorable.

EDIT: I'm sorry, that's a very trollish comment. I appreciate your point of view. The Dems have done a bunch of fantastic stuff for the American people, but I don't believe for a second that if they achieved their desired level of control over the country that things would be all roses. We would be better off with Nancy Pelosi in the White House than the current occupant. Still doesn't make her or her party my heroes.

Who's that fat kid that drowned himself in the river of chocolate in Wonka's factory? I forget his name, but that is basically what your post reads like: "I dislike everything that doesn't make me 100% happy, so when I find it...BY GOD, MOMMY! I will swallow it WHOLE! GERONIMO!"
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,223
32,736
136
Who's that fat kid that drowned himself in the river of chocolate in Wonka's factory? I forget his name, but that is basically what your post reads like: "I dislike everything that doesn't make me 100% happy, so when I find it...BY GOD, MOMMY! I will swallow it WHOLE! GERONIMO!"
Augustus. Not sure if that is how it is spelled though.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
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Why do you disagree with ten years of tax returns? Isn’t it absolutely essential to know who public officials wielding enormous amounts of power are getting paid by?


I agree with this, although unfortunately I’m not convinced it matters to the general public. People will rationalize and excuse questionable behavior and purposefully blind themselves to the implications of who is paying our candidates because of tribalism and partisanship.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
I agree with this, although unfortunately I’m not convinced it matters to the general public. People will rationalize and excuse questionable behavior and purposefully blind themselves to the implications of who is paying our candidates because of tribalism and partisanship.

Well, you just covered Trumpism while trying to bothsides it.
 
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