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Boston RedSox fan,do you think Manny Ramirez is over rated?

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Originally posted by: MustyTang
I wonder how I'd feel if I was making MLB minimum wage while sitting next to Manny's locker when that check rolls in every 2 weeks. :Q
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What's the MLB minimum wage btw?
 
Odd, site I found listed it at 22.5... they concur on Bonds' at 18 mill though, so either way, Manny's making more.
 
As a hitter he isn't over rated...he's one of the most solid, patient and hard to fluster hitters i've ever watched, and probably in the league right now, and of course he can crush the ball on any given swing. The fact that umps sometimes trust his eye over their own means a lot and can be helpful at times, he gets the most respect at the plate of anyone in the league.

He's not paid to play the field, and if we didn't have ortiz who knows he could be a DH if we had a decent hitting fielder to play left.

Is he overpaid...yes (but so is 95% of the MLB but he was a key aquisition and without him I don't think we'd be in the WS right now) but as far as overrated, since no one expects him to play a good left field, I'd say no, cuz it's hard for one of the top 5 best hitters in the league to be overrated....unless you have unrealistic goals in mind.
 
Manny makes an average of $20 million/year through the length of his contract. It's not a backloaded contract like other players have.

If the question is 'Is Manny Ramirez overrated in relation to how much money he is making?' then that could be understandable...but if the question is just plain 'Is Ramirez overrated?' then you have no idea what you're talking about. Manny Ramirez is easily one of the best hitters in the game, even if his defense is poor. He is a 1.000+ OPS machine.
 
Dont count the cards out yet.Some team can come back from a 0-3 deficit you know ... 😛

As for salaries, i think GM should invest their money for the overall potential of a player, not just one area.We all know Manny is an excellent hitter,but 20 m for just being an excellent hitter is a waste imo.

BONDS! is a bargain tho 🙂
 
Ramirez is one of the best hitters in baseball. Yeah he is a severe liability defensively but I am quite sure his runs created more than make up for his glove. Or lack thereof. He is a future Hall of Fame player barring injury... so I wouldn't call him overrated, maybe overpaid. Of course, Boston overpays everyone just to keep them away from the evil empire, so that's not the best gauge to use.
 
Manny is family.

I don't think he's overrated, he's an excellent hitter, average fielder. I don't think that Boston would be where they're at w/o Manny and Ortiz.
 
Originally posted by: MustyTang
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: MustyTang
Originally posted by: Gurck
Originally posted by: MustyTang
Originally posted by: lordtyranus
Take Bonds's salary and cut it by 1/3, Anyone who makes more than that is overpaid.
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These guys fill the stands...which generates money. They entertain the people...we choose to come to the park and pay for tickets, food, souveniers, etc. Hell ya they should get a nice cut from that. If we didn't want them to get paid that much, then we shouldn't show up and watch the games. People who entertain us make a shitload of money. Dave Chapelle just signed for 2 years/$50 million.......what does that tell u?
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Bonds' '04 salary was "only" 18 million.
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Think about how much money people made off his name. From the owners......alllllllll the way down to the scalpers. He brings people to the yard....and he generates a lot of revenue
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I'm not commenting on that at all, just pointing out that if the above poster wants to use a very very highly paid player as a reference point, Bonds isn't it. Manny's paycheck in '04 was 22.5 mill.
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Yep..and I agree Bonds should be making a whole lot more than Manny's 22.5. 18 mill right now is a bargain for what the Giants get out of him.
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You're forgetting that Manny signed his contract when MLB salaries were at their PEAK, and have since declined. Also, Manny's numbers were astronomical with Cleveland (even better than they are now) which also commanded top dollar. This was around the time that ARod signed for 25 mil as well... are they worth that kind of money? Hell no, but you have to acknowledge the time that these agreements were written up, Boston also had a totally different ownership and GM at the time... this ownership knew ARod wasn't worth his asking price last year and walked, it's pretty much a given that they agreed and also thought Manny was overpaid b/c they put him out on waivers.
 
Did anyone see that play when manny was limited to a single because he kept jogging to the first base. No he's definitely a great hitter and not overrated, but defensively he's something else. I probably would expect a complete hitter for $20+ millions a year.
 
I guess I am not sure how he is rated, thus I can't say whether it is overrated or not. I think that he is definitely not as good of a player right now performance-wise as many of the really good players in the playoffs. However, I think he adds a lot to the team other than his hitting and defense. It's hard to know how much his impact really is. I'd certainly rather have the performance of someone like pujols or jim edmonds of the cardinals, but who knows how much of a leader, morale booster, etc. those guys are in comparison.
 
Originally posted by: ifesfor
Sure he is your 100+rbi guy, 30+hr, +.300 avr guy that you will get every season,but is it me or this guy look like someone who want these series to end as fast as possible?He doesnt look like a guy who's fighting at the plate, he is HORRIBLE defensivly( and god hes just a fielder!!!).

Im not a xxx team fan( /cry i lost my expos!!! )but now just your average baseball fan, but i think this ramirez really doesnt worth the 20 millions he is winning.If the sox are where they are atm, its for sure not because of him .

Your opinion on the subject?
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the first sentence of your argument makes me disregard the rest of your post...NEXT
 
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Ramirez is one of the best hitters in baseball. Yeah he is a severe liability defensively but I am quite sure his runs created more than make up for his glove. Or lack thereof. He is a future Hall of Fame player barring injury... so I wouldn't call him overrated, maybe overpaid. Of course, Boston overpays everyone just to keep them away from the evil empire, so that's not the best gauge to use.
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In answer to the question, is Manny overrated? Hell no, Manny is the best overall pure/power hitter in the American League hands down (although Vlad is making a good case, Ichiro is a better pure but not power). He is the reason that Ortiz blew up the last 2 years, he got pitches to hit because of the respect opposing managers have for Manny. There's a reason why Manny led the AL in intentional walks last year and was 2nd behind Ichiro this year.

Regarding his defense, I have to disagree with above poster. Manny made a HR saving catch at Yankee stadium during their last series there, it was incredible, he lept over the left field wall without even spilling a beer that was sitting there. I've also seen him make other spectacular plays near the wall... calling him a "severe liability defensively" is an incorrect statement. He had as many errors as HIDEKI MATSUI, who is fundamentally sound. The man also only made 3 more errors in the outfield than players Jim Edmonds, Barry Bonds, Torii Hunter; only 2 more than Sheffield, yet he's now a liability? How about Carlos Beltran, he made 1 more than Manny, is he a "liability"? Please, if you're going to spew crap like "Manny's a severe liability" then you shouldn't watch baseball at all. Yes he didn't make the play in Game 1 and it cost them a run, and the second time his foot caught a drainage basin and it cost them another. But he more than made up for it with his 3 hits and 2RBI.

 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: murphy55d
Ramirez is one of the best hitters in baseball. Yeah he is a severe liability defensively but I am quite sure his runs created more than make up for his glove. Or lack thereof. He is a future Hall of Fame player barring injury... so I wouldn't call him overrated, maybe overpaid. Of course, Boston overpays everyone just to keep them away from the evil empire, so that's not the best gauge to use.
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In answer to the question, is Manny overrated? Hell no, Manny is the best overall pure/power hitter in the American League hands down (although Vlad is making a good case, Ichiro is a better pure but not power). He is the reason that Ortiz blew up the last 2 years, he got pitches to hit because of the respect opposing managers have for Manny. There's a reason why Manny led the AL in intentional walks last year and was 2nd behind Ichiro this year.

Regarding his defense, I have to disagree with above poster. Manny made a HR saving catch at Yankee stadium during their last series there, it was incredible, he lept over the left field wall without even spilling a beer that was sitting there. I've also seen him make other spectacular plays near the wall... calling him a "severe liability defensively" is an incorrect statement. He had as many errors as HIDEKI MATSUI, who is fundamentally sound. The man also only made 3 more errors in the outfield than players Jim Edmonds, Barry Bonds, Torii Hunter; only 2 more than Sheffield, yet he's now a liability? How about Carlos Beltran, he made 1 more than Manny, is he a "liability"? Please, if you're going to spew crap like "Manny's a severe liability" then you shouldn't watch baseball at all. Yes he didn't make the play in Game 1 and it cost them a run, and the second time his foot caught a drainage basin and it cost them another. But he more than made up for it with his 3 hits and 2RBI.
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Well, you have to compare more than just errors. I don't know how anyone can deny that jim edmonds is a vastly superior fielder to ramirez. In the playoffs alone I've seen about 5 amazing plays by edmonds and only 1 somewhat bad one (bad throw over the cutoff guy's head in game 1). Still, I'd probably rather have ramirez on my team.
 
Originally posted by: torpid
Well, you have to compare more than just errors. I don't know how anyone can deny that jim edmonds is a vastly superior fielder to ramirez. In the playoffs alone I've seen about 5 amazing plays by edmonds and only 1 somewhat bad one (bad throw over the cutoff guy's head in game 1). Still, I'd probably rather have ramirez on my team.
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Yes, but can Edmonds hit anywhere near Ramirez's ability? Is 20 Homeruns doing more for your team than letting up 3 errors? Let's just say that there's a reason why Manny, if given a new contract today, would easily make more than Edmonds. Because he produces more runs with his bat than Edmonds + Edmonds' ability to save runs in the field. It's that simple. Also, Manny is average in the field, he makes as many errors as Matsui who is no slouch. And hitting > fielding when comparing total runs produced (sorry Edmonds).

Also, as you mentioned, Manny's laid back attitude helps to calm everyone down and he is a perfect fit in that clubhouse. He and Ortiz are best friends, and they took Cabrera under their wing when he came. Ask Ortiz how big of a clubhouse influence Manny is, and he will say Manny should be MVP (and Manny will say Ortiz should be MVP). He also has a huge following across the US which spans all colors and ages, and loves to converse with his fans on his new website.
 
albiet the sox i think wanted a rod and were willing to give up manny, i dont' think he's over rated. He's a good player and probally deserves the money he's getting paid. *shrugs* I think sp33demon hit it right on, he's just a great addition to the club and very benificial in winning games and being a 'team player'.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: torpid
Well, you have to compare more than just errors. I don't know how anyone can deny that jim edmonds is a vastly superior fielder to ramirez. In the playoffs alone I've seen about 5 amazing plays by edmonds and only 1 somewhat bad one (bad throw over the cutoff guy's head in game 1). Still, I'd probably rather have ramirez on my team.
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Yes, but can Edmonds hit anywhere near Ramirez's ability? Is 20 Homeruns doing more for your team than letting up 3 errors? Let's just say that there's a reason why Manny, if given a new contract today, would easily make more than Edmonds. Because he produces more runs with his bat than Edmonds + Edmonds' ability to save runs in the field. It's that simple. Also, Manny is average in the field, he makes as many errors as Matsui who is no slouch. And hitting > fielding when comparing total runs produced (sorry Edmonds).

Also, as you mentioned, Manny's laid back attitude helps to calm everyone down and he is a perfect fit in that clubhouse. He and Ortiz are best friends, and they took Cabrera under their wing when he came. Ask Ortiz how big of a clubhouse influence Manny is, and he will say Manny should be MVP (and Manny will say Ortiz should be MVP). He also has a huge following across the US which spans all colors and ages, and loves to converse with his fans on his new website.
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Hey calm down there, I was agreeing with you for the most part. I was just noting that errors are not the only measure of how good of a fielder someone is. I think ramirez was great in the regular season and still is more intimidating in the playoffs than many players who are doing better. I do place a lot of weight on how someone does in the post-season, though, and for that reason I think that ramirez may not shine as much as some of the other players of his calibur (of which there are few).
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Regarding his defense, I have to disagree with above poster. Manny made a HR saving catch at Yankee stadium during their last series there, it was incredible, he lept over the left field wall without even spilling a beer that was sitting there. I've also seen him make other spectacular plays near the wall... calling him a "severe liability defensively" is an incorrect statement. He had as many errors as HIDEKI MATSUI, who is fundamentally sound. The man also only made 3 more errors in the outfield than players Jim Edmonds, Barry Bonds, Torii Hunter; only 2 more than Sheffield, yet he's now a liability? How about Carlos Beltran, he made 1 more than Manny, is he a "liability"? Please, if you're going to spew crap like "Manny's a severe liability" then you shouldn't watch baseball at all. Yes he didn't make the play in Game 1 and it cost them a run, and the second time his foot caught a drainage basin and it cost them another. But he more than made up for it with his 3 hits and 2RBI.
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Raw numbers of errors mean nothing.

Manny Ramirez is barely at replacement level as a LF with the Red Sox.

Runs Above Replacement Level for Ramirez as a LF with Boston:
2001: 7
2002: -2
2003: 1
2004: 0

That is atrocious.

Jim Edmonds, on the other hand as a CF:
2000: 22
2001: 19
2002: 29
2003: 23

It's interesting to note:
Matsui:
2003: 0
2004: 5

Manny Ramirez is an atrocious fielder (but strangely enough he was pretty solid in RF with Cleveland) and he's basically at replacement level fielding - which is horrendous.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yes, but can Edmonds hit anywhere near Ramirez's ability?
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Sure he can. In fact he was better than Manny Ramirez this season, IMO. However I would agree that Manny Ramirez is usually better than Jim Edmonds. I think you should look at the numbers that Edmonds has put up since coming over to the Cardinals. He's been one of the league's best players since 2000.

Let's just say that there's a reason why Manny, if given a new contract today, would easily make more than Edmonds.
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That doesn't really mean much at all. I would say Manny would also get more because of his name and the fact that he is a little younger. He also has a better track record, IMO. And Edmonds usually seems to have problems staying healthy over a full season.

Because he produces more runs with his bat than Edmonds + Edmonds' ability to save runs in the field. It's that simple.
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I'm not sure if that happened this season. I think you need to look up the numbers that Edmonds has been putting up and then combine that with amazing defense. I'd guess it would be pretty close since Edmonds is an amazing fielder at an important position while Manny basically gets nothing added due to his poor defense.

I'm pretty sure that Edmonds relative to his position was more valuable (after adding hitting and fielding) than Manny Ramirez relative to his position this season.

Also, Manny is average in the field, he makes as many errors as Matsui who is no slouch. And hitting > fielding when comparing total runs produced (sorry Edmonds).
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Manny is probably one of the worst fielders in the game. He's basically at replacement level.
 
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