Boston Bombing -- Who Did It?

[Howard]

What's the scoop on the conspiracy stuff?

 

[monovillage]

What's the scoop on the conspiracy stuff?

Just typical stuff.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ombing-suspect-taken-custody-second-time.html

Owners of 'Terrorista #1' BMW taken into custody over Boston bombings AGAIN: Feds arrest two men 'who were friends with suspect for immigration violation'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

Boston bombers: FBI hunting 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

 

[Pr0d1gy]

What's the scoop on the conspiracy stuff?

All kinds of stuff.

The Saudi national they caught and are now deporting is on the terror watch list, has 6 terrorist brothers.

There were bomb sniffing dogs at the start and finish line along with a heavy amount of FBI and private Operators, kept announcing a drill over loudspeakers, left the blast area before the bombs went off.

Police actually ran over the older brother with an SUV.

Israeli news claims brothers were double agents setup by our government as patsies.

etc etc etc

 

[Remobz]

All kinds of stuff.

The Saudi national they caught and are now deporting is on the terror watch list, has 6 terrorist brothers.

There were bomb sniffing dogs at the start and finish line along with a heavy amount of FBI and private Operators, kept announcing a drill over loudspeakers, left the blast area before the bombs went off.

Police actually ran over the older brother with an SUV.

Israeli news claims brothers were double agents setup by our government as patsies.

etc etc etc

I thought Israel was suppose to be allies to America?

How dare they say that?

 

[spacejamz]

White House: Tsarnaev won't be treated as enemy combatant

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...rnaev-wont-be-treated-as-enemy-combatant?lite

I do not agree with this...

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

White House: Tsarnaev won't be treated as enemy combatant

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...rnaev-wont-be-treated-as-enemy-combatant?lite

I do not agree with this...

Personally I do.

When I was a JAG I knew people who served as both prosecutors and defense counsel for combatants held at Gitmo. I could never wrap my head around that process, and it has always felt to me like a kangaroo court. I do not like the idea of holding people indefinitely (now, more than a decade) without charges based on the proposition that we are still at war (a war which will presumably never end), because I think it's totally contrary to American values.

In this particular case we are talking about an American citizen who committed his crimes on American soil, against American civilians. I can't see treating him as an enemy combatant even if his actions were motivated by Islamic extremism (which appears to be the case but is not totally certain).

 

[nextJin]

Personally I do.

When I was a JAG I knew people who served as both prosecutors and defense counsel for combatants held at Gitmo. I could never wrap my head around that process, and it has always felt to me like a kangaroo court. I do not like the idea of holding people indefinitely (now, more than a decade) without charges based on the proposition that we are still at war (a war which will presumably never end), because I think it's totally contrary to American values.

In this particular case we are talking about an American citizen who committed his crimes on American soil, against American civilians. I can't see treating him as an enemy combatant even if his actions were motivated by Islamic extremism (which appears to be the case but is not totally certain).

I agree with it as well there is no reason to try him as an enemy combatant.

He is dead either way.

 

[spacejamz]

Personally I do.

When I was a JAG I knew people who served as both prosecutors and defense counsel for combatants held at Gitmo. I could never wrap my head around that process, and it has always felt to me like a kangaroo court. I do not like the idea of holding people indefinitely (now, more than a decade) without charges based on the proposition that we are still at war (a war which will presumably never end), because I think it's totally contrary to American values.

In this particular case we are talking about an American citizen who committed his crimes on American soil, against American civilians. I can't see treating him as an enemy combatant even if his actions were motivated by Islamic extremism (which appears to be the case but is not totally certain).

I can see how/why one could pick either yes or no on this issue. In my opinion, he and his brother chose to 'attack' America. Their intent was to kill and terrorize Americans which is substantially different than a homocide committed by a citizen. They knew exactly what they were doing and the effect it would have.

 

[zinfamous]

I can see how/why one could pick either yes or no on this issue. In my opinion, he and his brother chose to 'attack' America. Their intent was to kill and terrorize Americans which is substantially different than a homicide committed by a citizen. They knew exactly what they were doing and the effect it would have.

for his brother...possibly. for Dzokdar, absolutely no.

He is a US citizen and for all the baly-hoo on the administration about taking out a US Citizen with a drone outside of US soil--this is the exact same circumstance.

In one case, it is presumably a violation of the constitution and yet in this case, it is presumably not?

as for the bolded, I don't think that is necessarily true. intent to kill and terrorize is, in a certain aspect, the intent to kill. All of the mass murders we have recently had in schools resulted in the same effect, perpetrated by a US citizen and in the case of the suspects that survived--were not treated as enemy combatants.

Should Timothy McVeigh have been treated this way? The wackadoo in Colorado? They are/were also US citizens whose intent was to murder and terrorize. Why is there no call to treat them as enemy combatants? Is it this believe that we are at war with Islam rather than being at war with psychos? It's almost like turning this one event into a separate specific form of mass homicide. Many of us dislike the notion of a "hate crime" being differentiated from a "crime" of the same result. Why would that not apply here?

 

[spacejamz]

for his brother...possibly. for Dzokdar, absolutely no.

He is a US citizen and for all the baly-hoo on the administration about taking out a US Citizen with a drone outside of US soil--this is the exact same circumstance.

In one case, it is presumably a violation of the constitution and yet in this case, it is presumably not?

as for the bolded, I don't think that is necessarily true. intent to kill and terrorize is, in a certain aspect, the intent to kill. All of the mass murders we have recently had in schools resulted in the same effect, perpetrated by a US citizen and in the case of the suspects that survived--were not treated as enemy combatants.

Should Timothy McVeigh have been treated this way? The wackadoo in Colorado? They are/were also US citizens whose intent was to murder and terrorize. Why is there no call to treat them as enemy combatants? Is it this believe that we are at war with Islam rather than being at war with psychos? It's almost like turning this one event into a separate specific form of mass homicide. Many of us dislike the notion of a "hate crime" being differentiated from a "crime" of the same result. Why would that not apply here?

In my opinion, the shooters were not trying to terrorize Americans into changing our way of life. They just wanted their 15 seconds or they just wanted to simply kill people. They were not driven by a hatred of the American way of life.

I believe that an argument could be made about treating McVeigh as a combatant but his intent was not the same (he hated the US government, not the US way of life which is a significant difference, again IMO) as the Marathon Bombers who I assume believed in an idealogy to hate America.

 

[spacejamz]

for his brother...possibly. for Dzokdar, absolutely no.

Are you saying he was just an innocent bystander who had no clue of what he was doing, why he was doing it or what effect it would have and that he was just simply following his older brother's instructions?

I do not believe that 'brainwashing' from his older brother is a valid excuse...He is an adult and should be responsible for the consequences of his actions and decisions.

 

[nextJin]

One thing that kills me as a father is the guy who lost his 8yr old son, his wife has traumatic brain injuries, and his little girl lost limbs.

I don't think I'd ever be able to move on after something like that. It's things like that that make me double down on my ideology that the US killing innocent civilians overseas leads to more radical Islam.

Accident or not, if someone killed or maimed the majority of my family I would be fucking pissed beyond all doubt.

 

[Druidx]

I don't think I'd ever be able to move on after something like that. It's things like that that make me double down on my ideology that the US killing innocent civilians overseas leads to more radical Islam.

Nice circular logic there, It’s our fault the brothers decided to bomb the marathon.

 

[nextJin]

Nice circular logic there, It’s our fault the brothers decided to bomb the marathon.

Eh I believe in the CIA definition of blowback, if you want to believe people do this because we have McDonald's and American Idol that's fine too.

 

[Darwin333]

In this exact case absolutely, I would have apologized, said I was horribly wrong and likely changed my opinion of the right.

This wasn't a theory though, almost all the experts said this showed signs of radical Islam. I watched most all the news channels and with the exception of a few anchors on MSNBC I never heard of a serious explanation other than radical Islam. The only surprise came from these guys not actually being Arabic.

What baffled me here is that dumbasses kept saying it was a RWE through and through and now they barely say anything.

Not to be a grammar nazi or anything but thats a pretty serious contradiction.

 

[Darwin333]

White House: Tsarnaev won't be treated as enemy combatant

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...rnaev-wont-be-treated-as-enemy-combatant?lite

I do not agree with this...

Wasn't he made a US citizen a year ago? If so, he should still be entitled to his rights as a citizen. Go take a look at how they have expanded "terrorism" to include damn near anything they want. If they can declare this asshole an enemy combatant they can likely do the same to some kid blowing up his neighbors mailbox with a cherry bomb.

Give him his fair trial and if/when found guilty punish him to the fullest extent of whatever jurisdiction he will be prosecuted in. I don't see why people want him to be treated as an enemy combatant. What exactly do "we" gain from that?

 

[Darwin333]

I can see how/why one could pick either yes or no on this issue. In my opinion, he and his brother chose to 'attack' America. Their intent was to kill and terrorize Americans which is substantially different than a homocide committed by a citizen. They knew exactly what they were doing and the effect it would have.

Is our legal system somehow inadequate to handle this case? If so, what specifically are your concerns?

 

[Darwin333]

In my opinion, the shooters were not trying to terrorize Americans into changing our way of life. They just wanted their 15 seconds or they just wanted to simply kill people. They were not driven by a hatred of the American way of life.

I believe that an argument could be made about treating McVeigh as a combatant but his intent was not the same (he hated the US government, not the US way of life which is a significant difference, again IMO) as the Marathon Bombers who I assume believed in an idealogy to hate America.

That is exactly the problem right there. I am not willing to support the loss of anyones rights to due process simply because of someone elses opinion. Even if your opinion is 100% correct I have seen absolutely no good reason to wander down the road of being able to strip US citizens of their right to due process because they committed an act of "terrorism" while the stuff we label as "terrorism" has gotten absurd. Some jackass that spray paints a car can be labeled a terrorist and all of a sudden he has to worry about losing his right to due process?

No thanks, I'll stick with the Constitution on this one.

 

[JulesMaximus]

So when are the leftists going to apologize for being wrong? I remember several of them on here and even that idiot chris matthews hoping it was a right winger. Is it islamophobic to point out the religion of these terrorists?

Apologize? Are you out of your fucking mind?

Apologize for what? And to whom?

 

[zinfamous]

Are you saying he was just an innocent bystander who had no clue of what he was doing, why he was doing it or what effect it would have and that he was just simply following his older brother's instructions?

not sure how you could read that out of my response--at all. I am saying that like nearly all other murderers who murder--he knew exactly what he was doing, why he was doing it, and what the effects would be.

but--and I didn't mention this in my response in any way--I do believe his brother had serious influence into his involvement. I don't think this excuses his actions or would or should actually lessen the assumed punishment.

I do not believe that 'brainwashing' from his older brother is a valid excuse...He is an adult and should be responsible for the consequences of his actions and decisions.

neither do I. But I never suggested that at all.
I simply argued that murder is murder is murder.


oh--why I mentioned his brother in the first statement. It is because his brother was not a US citizen. Dzokodar is a US citizen. This is why laws "should" necessarily apply differently to each individual, despite their crimes being the same. You suggested that either Dzokodar's citizenship was irrelevant, or that you weren't sure he was a citizen? I could have confused that assertion.

 

[spacejamz]

Wasn't he made a US citizen a year ago? If so, he should still be entitled to his rights as a citizen. Go take a look at how they have expanded "terrorism" to include damn near anything they want. If they can declare this asshole an enemy combatant they can likely do the same to some kid blowing up his neighbors mailbox with a cherry bomb.

Give him his fair trial and if/when found guilty punish him to the fullest extent of whatever jurisdiction he will be prosecuted in. I don't see why people want him to be treated as an enemy combatant. What exactly do "we" gain from that?

These asshats hate our way of life and attacked us (placing bombs in a public place is an attack, right??) I would hope that one could see the difference between a kid lighting off a cherry bomb but then again, we have seen some asinine decisions being made when it comes to this.

I think anyone, especially a naturalized citizen, should automatically forfeit their citizenship if they are found guilty of being involved in attack on this country.

The only thing we would gain would be the ability to use 'advanced' interrogation techniques to find out if he might know of any future attacks that might be planned. Wouldn't this be worth it if it even saves the life of one US citizen?

 

[Pr0d1gy]

These asshats hate our way of life

lmao This thread has been hijacked by the misinformation gestapo.

 

[nextJin]

Not to be a grammar nazi or anything but thats a pretty serious contradiction.

How about it was not a completely retarded off the wall theory thrown onto the American public by liberal talk show hosts, but instead a solid theory based on historical evidence and unanimous agreement with the CIA, FBI, DHS, and many other agencies who specialize in matters of terrorism and national security?

Hopefully that cleared up the comment, I was taking a shit and rushed the statement off my GSIII.

 

[Fern]

You are narrowing it to an extreme degree. White is white. These terrorists are white. White males. Just like Loughner, Page, Holmes, Lanza, etc. As another poster stated, even the FBI claimed that the terrorists are white males.

Iranians are considered white. So are people in the Middle East (see my above post). WTH point is there, and you seem to think it a big one, in pointing out that these guys are white?

Fern

 

[Fern]

The fact of the matter is the owner started buying, storing and selling ammonium nitrate. Apparently didn't realize the dangers of doing so nor the requirement that an amount greater than 200 pounds had to be reported to the DHS. The owner also didn't update his emergency response or inform the local emergency services.

Whoaa!

Somebody is in a lot of trouble (civil suits etc.).

Fern