Boston and MA tobacco laws

[sonambulo]

That is assssssss. I love hookah bars.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Harvey, those facts you posted aren't worth the e-paper they're printed on. That is merely a department trying to sell what they do. If it is posted in a peer reviewed journal with methodology and the like posted, then I will read that. I will, however, ignore a simple sales-ad for a department.

It isn't even the department selling it....
Periodontology, or Periodontics, is the branch of dentistry which studies supporting structures of teeth, and diseases and conditions that affect them.

why are they posting on the health effects of tobacco on anything BUT the teeth?

 

[bozack]

One more reason why I hate massachusetts, they impose the will of the few on the many constantly....personally I am a very infrequent smoker and only rarely have a cigar, but the fact is that these are private establishments, they have age limits, and the people patronizing and employed by them know what they are getting into.

I could somewhat sympathize with eating establishments

I felt that bars were ridiculous

But Cigar bars??....crazy

And good luck enforcing that patio ban...

I work with a few smokers, most of them just drive up north for their cigarettes...all this will do is shut down more local business, good job Boston!

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Originally posted by: TallBill
At least they get 10 years of notice. Better then a complete slap in the face.

Its the patio ban that bothers me most. I really hope my company hires me full time so I don't have to go back to waiting tables. I definitely don't want to be the guy to tell the drunk Sox fans that they can't smoke on the patio anymore.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: JS80

lulz @ harvey

Please step outside or go into your own home, and smoke a pack. You'll be hastening the advent of a favor to the world.

What about cheeseburger makers? Fried chicken producers? Should they be tried for crimes against humanity too?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Which journal was this published in?

I fixed the link in my previous post. Are you mouse challenged?

If you need more, are you Google challenged? :roll:

Here's more from The American Lung Association]http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.35422[/l]:

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.1

• Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen). 2
  
• Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide. 3
  
• Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year. 4
  
• Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces. 5
  
• Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada. 6 Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers. 7
  
• Nineteen states - Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington and Vermont - as well as the District of Columbia prohibit smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars. Montana and Utah prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants; bars will go smokefree in 2009. New Hampshire prohibits smoking in some public places, including all restaurants and bars. Four states - Florida, Idaho, Louisiana and Nevada - prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants, but exempt stand-alone bars. Fifteen states partially or totally prevent (preempt) local communities from passing smokefree air ordinances stronger than the statewide law. Nebraska and Oregon have passed legislation prohibiting smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars, but the laws have not taken effect yet. 8
  
• Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually. 9
  
• Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year. 10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma. 11
  
• In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis. 12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood. 13
  
• Research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades. 14
  
• The current Surgeon General?s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Short exposures to secondhand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack. 15

For more information on secondhand smoke, please review the Tobacco Morbidity and Mortality Trend Report as well as our Lung Disease Data publication in the Data and Statistics section of our website at www.lungusa.org, or call the American Lung Association at 1-800-LUNG-USA (1-800-586-4872).

Sources:

1. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
2. Ibid.
   
3. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available here. Accessed on 7/7/06.
   
4. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
5. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Report on Carcinogens, Tenth Edition 2002. National Toxicology Program.
   
6. Shopland, D. Smoke-Free Workplace Coverage. Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 2001; 43(8): 680-686.
   
7. Halpern, M.T.; Shikiar, R.; Rentz, A.M.; Khan, Z.M. Impact of Smoking Status on Workplace Absenteeism and Productivity. Tobacco Control 2001; 10: 233-238.
   
8. American Lung Association. State Legislated Actions on Tobacco Issues (SLATI). May 8, 2008. Available at http://slati.lungusa.org/StateLegislateAction.asp. Accessed on June 10, 2008.
   
9. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
10. Ibid.
    
11. Ibid.
    
12. Schuster, MA, Franke T, Pham CB. Smoking Patterns of Household Members and Visitors in Homes with Children in United States. Archives of Pediatric Adolescent Medicine. Vol. 156, 2002: 1094-1100.
    
13. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. America?s Children and the Environment: Measures of Contaminants, Body Burdens, and Illnesses. Second Edition. February 2003.
    
14. Diethelm PA, Rielle JC, McKee M. The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth? The Research Philip Morris Did Not Want You to See. Lancet. Vol. 364 No. 9446, 2004.
    
15. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available here. Accessed on 7/7/06.

Also, I can use the same logic about alcohol, but because the masses consume alcohol, it cannot be bad or wrong.

No, because, unless you're into some very kinky stuff, nobody inhales or drinks second hand alcohol.

Banning an item because it is harmful is agreeable IF and only IF the logic is held to ALL people and ALL harmful addictions/substances. If alcohol is not subject to the same treatment, then why should cigarettes?

You're welcome to kill yourself with your own addictions. No one should be allowed to kill others with them.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers

Originally posted by: TallBill
At least they get 10 years of notice. Better then a complete slap in the face.

Its the patio ban that bothers me most. I really hope my company hires me full time so I don't have to go back to waiting tables. I definitely don't want to be the guy to tell the drunk Sox fans that they can't smoke on the patio anymore.

Mmm.. a similar ban is in Illinois. We have an outside awning area at my bar, but its closed because of the cold weather. It's about 10-15 degrees warmer then actual outside, and of course has no wind.

I had to tell about 30 people last night that they actually had to go all the way outside to smoke. It was 2 feet further, but a hell of a lot colder.

Nobody argued to much.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

link not found Harvey McMoran.

Link fixed DeGeneratex87

And what in my post doesnt back up what I said? The push for banning indoor smoking within private establishments was done for workers who have to work in that environment. Now we are moving outside and outright banning the sale of the substance. What definition of prohibition do you use?

Personally, I'd prefer to see

I truly hate the tobacco companies. I think every tobacco exec for the last fifty years should be tried for crimes against humanity for the killer products they continue to market. I watched those lying assholes raise their hands before Congress and swear that tobacco was not addictive or carcinogenic.

A few years ago, California passed an initiatiative that is one of the strongest anti-smoking laws in the country. Despite the tobacco lobby spending a record amount for a private interest to defeat this initiative, it passed by a record margin of 80% - 20% margin. In the very next session of the state legislature, our elected representatives in the State Assembly passed a bill to overturn that initiative. Fortunately, the media stink that followed caused the State Senate to think better of the idea and kill it. I still have to wonder how much money it takes to get over half of a state legilative body to overturn a law passed by 80% of the voters.

Philip Morris' saccherine anti-smoking commercials were equally lame. If they believed 10% of what they say, they would immediately stop selling their tobacco products.

To hide the association with their other products, they put the company under a parent company, Altria. A few years ago, they boasted on their website:

Marketing Excellence and Innovation

Philip Morris International?s brand portfolio includes seven of the top 20 international brands, including Marlboro, which has been the best-selling international cigarette brand since 1972, and L&M, which is now the No. 3 brand in the world over the last decade. Other brands include [/i]Philip Morris, Chesterfield, Bond Street, Lark and Parliament.[/i]

Does this sound like a company that wants people to stop smoking? Can you say lying, two faced mofos, boys and girls?

I've lost far too many friends in far too short a time to tobacco related illnesses. And before any of you children go off on me about my friends making their own choices, remember, they target their ads at kids. I'm 67, and when my friends and I were kids, there were no warnings on cigarette packs. However, there were lots of ads on radio and TV glamorizing smoking, including ads that said strange things like, more doctors recommend one brand over another.

Altria has since sold off their interest in Philip Morris, but the tobacco murderers continue to pimp their death to the public. They need to replace the customers they kill, which is why they still target kids.

Death to the tobacco murderers! :| :| :|

Good to see you are happy with taking away ones right to do what they please with their own body.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bozack
And good luck enforcing that patio ban...

Money is a great motivator

How many fines do you think a bar owner can stand before complying?

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Harvey

.

And if you're at all concerned about that, you can frequent a different establishment. You know before these bans there were smoke-free bars, in fact they were quite common.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Good to see you are happy with taking away ones right to do what they please with their own body.

I don't know if you're mean, stupid or both, but you have NO right to kill others with what you're stupid enough to do to your own body. :thumbsdown: :|

Originally posted by: Farang

And if you're at all concerned about that, you can frequent a different establishment. You know before these bans there were smoke-free bars, in fact they were quite common.

That doesn't address the threat posed to every employee in a smoke filled room. And before you say something really dumb, like suggesting a waiter/waitress or bartender can always get another job, remember that nagging problem of record unemployment.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Toastedlightly

Which journal was this published in?

I fixed the link in my previous post. Are you mouse challenged?

If you need more, are you Google challenged? :roll:

Here's more from The American Lung Association]http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9O0E/b.35422[/l]:

Secondhand Smoke Fact Sheet

Secondhand smoke, also know as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of smokers. It is involuntarily inhaled by nonsmokers, lingers in the air hours after cigarettes have been extinguished and can cause or exacerbate a wide range of adverse health effects, including cancer, respiratory infections, and asthma.1

• Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen). 2
  
• Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide. 3
  
• Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year. 4
  
• Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of secondhand smoke in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces. 5
  
• Since 1999, 70 percent of the U.S. workforce worked under a smoke-free policy, ranging from 83.9 percent in Utah to 48.7 percent in Nevada. 6 Workplace productivity was increased and absenteeism was decreased among former smokers compared with current smokers. 7
  
• Nineteen states - Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island, Washington and Vermont - as well as the District of Columbia prohibit smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars. Montana and Utah prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants; bars will go smokefree in 2009. New Hampshire prohibits smoking in some public places, including all restaurants and bars. Four states - Florida, Idaho, Louisiana and Nevada - prohibit smoking in most public places and workplaces, including restaurants, but exempt stand-alone bars. Fifteen states partially or totally prevent (preempt) local communities from passing smokefree air ordinances stronger than the statewide law. Nebraska and Oregon have passed legislation prohibiting smoking in almost all public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars, but the laws have not taken effect yet. 8
  
• Secondhand smoke is especially harmful to young children. Secondhand smoke is responsible for between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in infants and children under 18 months of age, resulting in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations each year, and causes 430 sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) deaths in the United States annually. 9
  
• Secondhand smoke exposure may cause buildup of fluid in the middle ear, resulting in 790,000 physician office visits per year. 10 Secondhand smoke can also aggravate symptoms in 400,000 to 1,000,000 children with asthma. 11
  
• In the United States, 21 million, or 35 percent of, children live in homes where residents or visitors smoke in the home on a regular basis. 12 Approximately 50-75 percent of children in the United States have detectable levels of cotinine, the breakdown product of nicotine in the blood. 13
  
• Research indicates that private research conducted by cigarette company Philip Morris in the 1980s showed that secondhand smoke was highly toxic, yet the company suppressed the finding during the next two decades. 14
  
• The current Surgeon General?s Report concluded that scientific evidence indicates that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Short exposures to secondhand smoke can cause blood platelets to become stickier, damage the lining of blood vessels, decrease coronary flow velocity reserves, and reduce heart rate variability, potentially increasing the risk of heart attack. 15

For more information on secondhand smoke, please review the Tobacco Morbidity and Mortality Trend Report as well as our Lung Disease Data publication in the Data and Statistics section of our website at www.lungusa.org, or call the American Lung Association at 1-800-LUNG-USA (1-800-586-4872).

Sources:

1. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
2. Ibid.
   
3. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available here. Accessed on 7/7/06.
   
4. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
5. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Report on Carcinogens, Tenth Edition 2002. National Toxicology Program.
   
6. Shopland, D. Smoke-Free Workplace Coverage. Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine. 2001; 43(8): 680-686.
   
7. Halpern, M.T.; Shikiar, R.; Rentz, A.M.; Khan, Z.M. Impact of Smoking Status on Workplace Absenteeism and Productivity. Tobacco Control 2001; 10: 233-238.
   
8. American Lung Association. State Legislated Actions on Tobacco Issues (SLATI). May 8, 2008. Available at http://slati.lungusa.org/StateLegislateAction.asp. Accessed on June 10, 2008.
   
9. California Environmental Protection Agency. Identification of Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a Toxic Air Contaminant. Executive Summary. June 2005.
   
10. Ibid.
    
11. Ibid.
    
12. Schuster, MA, Franke T, Pham CB. Smoking Patterns of Household Members and Visitors in Homes with Children in United States. Archives of Pediatric Adolescent Medicine. Vol. 156, 2002: 1094-1100.
    
13. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. America?s Children and the Environment: Measures of Contaminants, Body Burdens, and Illnesses. Second Edition. February 2003.
    
14. Diethelm PA, Rielle JC, McKee M. The Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth? The Research Philip Morris Did Not Want You to See. Lancet. Vol. 364 No. 9446, 2004.
    
15. The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke: 6 Major Conclusions of the Surgeon General Report. A Report of the Surgeon General, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 2006; Available here. Accessed on 7/7/06.

Also, I can use the same logic about alcohol, but because the masses consume alcohol, it cannot be bad or wrong.

No, because, unless you're into some very kinky stuff, nobody inhales or drinks second hand alcohol.

Banning an item because it is harmful is agreeable IF and only IF the logic is held to ALL people and ALL harmful addictions/substances. If alcohol is not subject to the same treatment, then why should cigarettes?

You're welcome to kill yourself with your own addictions. No one should be allowed to kill others with them.

I questioned your use of that website as a source. It was rightfully so. You provided a far more correct source (albeit not exactly what I like, but it has decent sources).

I hadn't seen your link as I typed up my previous entry, so pardon me.

Alcohol does kill others. Drunk drivers? Spousal abuse? Alcoholics kill far more than themselves and the damage they can do to other people's lives is also very great.

Also, why do you intend to put charged insults and little jabs into every post? I feel it is much easier to have a 'discussion' if everybody treats one another as equals.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

Good to see you are happy with taking away ones right to do what they please with their own body.

I don't know if you're mean, stupid or both, but you have NO right to kill others with what you're stupid enough to do to your own body. :thumbsdown: :|

Being outside and in my own home doesnt hurt anybody. Unless you want to come up and breath in my exhaust or come into my home. Both on your own free will.

And for the record I dont smoke nor have I ever outside of a few puffs in highschool.

 

[Genx87]

Also, why do you intend to put charged insults and little jabs into every post? I feel it is much easier to have a 'discussion' if everybody treats one another as equals.

It is what the McMorans do. Watch his brother Dave in action. Cant forumlate a legitimate thought provoking argument? The solution is to string a bunch of emotes and sputter insults.

 

[DarrelSPowers]

Uhhh harvey... I think everyone understands that you don't like the second hand smoke, and I'm not trying to disagree with you as far as it being bad. ~8 months ago I was a waiter at a bar with a patio by fenway park. Lots of red sox fans smoke, even more do when they've been drinking. Sure, I'd catch a whiff of second-hand every once in a while from a passerby or patio patron, but I'd rarely notice it as it would last for less than a fleeting moment.

I don't think that much of this new legislation is going to do anything to reduce second hand smoke, and is therefore pretty pointless. I mean, ban smoking in the bars got people to go outside. Ban it on the patio, and people will just step a few feet off the patio... that smoke may still waft over and you'll smell it and bug out.

Also, your personal insults to Genx87 are quite rude, I thought personal insults weren't allowed on these forums?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87

And for the record I dont smoke nor have I ever outside of a few puffs in highschool.

That could be the smartest thing you've ever posted on these forums. All that means is that you aren't personally contributing to the deaths caused by second hand smoke.

It's still just as absurd to advocate that anyone else has that non-existent right to kill others. :roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

And for the record I dont smoke nor have I ever outside of a few puffs in highschool.

That could be the smartest thing you've ever posted on these forums. All that means is that you aren't personally contributing to the deaths caused by second hand smoke.

It's still just as absurd to advocate that anyone else has that non-existent right to kill others. :roll:

Nowhere did I state they did. They moved it outside, outside in the fresh air. And are now working to ban the entire sale of it for people who want to do it within their own home. That said you should stop driving because cars kill people and cause pollution. Writing on the internet requires electricity from a coal power plant that spews tonnes of pollutants into the air each day. Are you going to take up those crusades for the rest of us?

I advocate for other rights that I dont partake in. Gun rights for example. I dont own a gun and probably never will. But Ill fight tooth and nail to retain that right for others.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DarrelSPowers
Also, your personal insults to Genx87 are quite rude, I thought personal insults weren't allowed on these forums?

First Darrel, welcome to P&N.

There is a history there you are apparently not aware of since you joined 7/9/2008.

P&N consists of people on both the radical Republicans and liberal Democrats.

This divide is pretty much in line with the rich Vs the poor divide which is concurrently growing and pretty much the way the country will be for the foreseeable future.

The middle class was eviscerated by design by the rich Republicans.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

And for the record I dont smoke nor have I ever outside of a few puffs in highschool.

That could be the smartest thing you've ever posted on these forums. All that means is that you aren't personally contributing to the deaths caused by second hand smoke.

It's still just as absurd to advocate that anyone else has that non-existent right to kill others. :roll:

Nowhere did I state they did. They moved it outside, outside in the fresh air.

Where the smoke blows "away?" Where do you think "away" is? :roll:

"Away" isn't away. It's just diffused, but it's still cumulative. When more enlightened, intelligent jurisdictions banned smoking in public areas, they found that smokers often congregated around public doorways. Many of them have been smart enough to have strengthened their anti-smoking laws to push smokers further away from those doorways.

That said you should stop driving because cars kill people and cause pollution. Writing on the internet requires electricity from a coal power plant that spews tonnes of pollutants into the air each day. Are you going to take up those crusades for the rest of us?

Too late. I'm already on the Al Gore bandwagon. :thumbsup:

In case you hadn't noticed, there's plenty of movement away from fossil fuels for many purposes, including transportation and power generation. The difference is, as a society, we need transportation and power, just to survive and progress to less polluting energy sources.

OTOH, humanity "needs" tobacco for it's own survival like a fish needs a pogostick. :thumbsdown:

 

[Genx87]

And who appointed you and your kind Gods to determine what and what we dont need?

 

[Anubis]

this really is stupid, the people who frequent cigar and hookah bars dont care about the smoke because thats what they fing go there for

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Genx87

And who appointed you and your kind Gods to determine what and what we dont need?

Sheesh! Just search Google for the subject. The only ones still NOT working toward both reducing public tobacco exposure and the pollution arising from energy usage are those still making money from their outdated, outmoded, destructive behavior patterns and the idiots who still suck on their bullshit without picking up a mouse and searching Google for information about how wrong they are.

Are you still trying for that Darwin Award? :laugh:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

And who appointed you and your kind Gods to determine what and what we dont need?

Sheesh! Just search Google for the subject. The only ones still NOT working toward both reducing public tobacco exposure and the pollution arising from energy usage are those still making money from their outdated, outmoded, destructive behavior patterns and the idiots who still suck on their bullshit without picking up a mouse and searching Google for information about how wrong they are.

Are you still trying for that Darwin Award? :laugh:

That didnt answer my question.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Farang

And if you're at all concerned about that, you can frequent a different establishment. You know before these bans there were smoke-free bars, in fact they were quite common.

That doesn't address the threat posed to every employee in a smoke filled room. And before you say something really dumb, like suggesting a waiter/waitress or bartender can always get another job, remember that nagging problem of record unemployment.

Ok, let's talk about employees. What if you don't have any employees? Let's take the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia example. Why would those three owners of the bar not be allowed to let people smoke? Surely we should allow for such a provision, since without employees there is not reason to prohibit smoking in a private establishment which caters exclusively to those 21 and older.

edit: actually I don't think they all co-own the bar on that show.. if not you still get my point

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87

I think many people predicted this decades ago. The push for indoor smoking bans due to the health of workers was just a charade. These people are nothing more than prohibitionists.

Prove that, or you're blowing stale, second hand carcinogens out of your ass. :thumbsdown:

Prove that he is blowing second hand carcinogens out of his ass. I want documentiation or you are a LIAR.