Boss bro' in shootout with police *apparently cops shot him in back*

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Mill
Don_Vito, Ecstasy is closely related to methamphetamine.

True, at least on a molecular level, but its effects are completely dissimilar. I have had the pleasure of working with a lot of forensic pharmacologists, on a lot of trials, and digging into these things a bit. The fact is that ecstasy has a history of proven clinical success in psychotherapy, and has little to no correlation to violent crime (unlike meth and cocaine, which can trigger psychosis and violence), other than the collateral violence among traffickers that goes along with any profitable illegal enterprise. As a general matter, people high on pot or ecstasy are less dangerous than the population at large.

As I have said repeatedly, I am not condoning drug use at all - I am just saying that a psychotic episode, accompanied by violent ideation and misuse of guns, is not a predictable consequence of taking ecstasy.

 

[aircooled]

why cant people just smoke pot and be happy..?

 

[her209]

Wow, what a dumba$$!

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Mill
Don_Vito, Ecstasy is closely related to methamphetamine.

True, at least on a molecular level, but its effects are completely dissimilar. I have had the pleasure of working with a lot of forensic pharmacologists, on a lot of trials, and digging into these things a bit. The fact is that ecstasy has a history of proven clinical success in psychotherapy, and has little to no correlation to violent crime (unlike meth and cocaine, which can trigger psychosis and violence), other than the collateral violence among traffickers that goes along with any profitable illegal enterprise. As a general matter, people high on pot or ecstasy are less dangerous than the population at large.

As I have said repeatedly, I am not condoning drug use at all - I am just saying that a psychotic episode, accompanied by violent ideation and misuse of guns, is not a predictable consequence of taking ecstasy.

I can agree with you 100% there, because Ecstasy doesn't produce the paranoia, violent behavior, or withdrawal that Meth does. Meth is a very nasty drug, and has no legitimate purpose. Like you said... Ecstasy does have theraputic uses, but that is mainly in the EU. What this guy took was probably not Ecstasy at all. He may have thought it was Ecstasy, but it could of had any number of things in it. Dancesafe used to test pills, but they don't anymore. However, you can get a 20 dollar test kit that will tell you if it is Ecstasy or not. Much safer than taking some crap that you have no idea what it is. If you do drugs then you need to be educated... just my opinion on drug usage.

 

[IGBT]

In people who had used MDMA, the PET images showed significant reductions in the number of serotonin transporters, the sites on neuron surfaces that reabsorb serotonin from the space between cells after it has completed its work. The lasting reduction of serotonin transporters occurred throughout the brain, and people who had used MDMA more often lost more serotonin transporters than those who had used the drug...




Text

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: Mill
Don_Vito, Ecstasy is closely related to methamphetamine.

True, at least on a molecular level, but its effects are completely dissimilar. I have had the pleasure of working with a lot of forensic pharmacologists, on a lot of trials, and digging into these things a bit. The fact is that ecstasy has a history of proven clinical success in psychotherapy, and has little to no correlation to violent crime (unlike meth and cocaine, which can trigger psychosis and violence), other than the collateral violence among traffickers that goes along with any profitable illegal enterprise. As a general matter, people high on pot or ecstasy are less dangerous than the population at large.

As I have said repeatedly, I am not condoning drug use at all - I am just saying that a psychotic episode, accompanied by violent ideation and misuse of guns, is not a predictable consequence of taking ecstasy.

I can agree with you 100% there, because Ecstasy doesn't produce the paranoia, violent behavior, or withdrawal that Meth does. Meth is a very nasty drug, and has no legitimate purpose. Like you said... Ecstasy does have theraputic uses, but that is mainly in the EU. What this guy took was probably not Ecstasy at all. He may have thought it was Ecstasy, but it could of had any number of things in it. Dancesafe used to test pills, but they don't anymore. However, you can get a 20 dollar test kit that will tell you if it is Ecstasy or not. Much safer than taking some crap that you have no idea what it is. If you do drugs then you need to be educated... just my opinion on drug usage.

It's pretty mcuh agreed upon that what he took wasn't X. Or very little of it was X. From what my boss' wife told me, it was his first ever time to use X. (or what he thought was X) Crazy. He's an otherwise good kid other than that.

My boss left me a voicemail today and he sounded rather depressed - they're going through a rough time and all. Don't get me wrong - I'm not justifying shooting at cops or whatever - it's all just hard to believe and swallow at the moment.

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: IGBT
In people who had used MDMA, the PET images showed significant reductions in the number of serotonin transporters, the sites on neuron surfaces that reabsorb serotonin from the space between cells after it has completed its work. The lasting reduction of serotonin transporters occurred throughout the brain, and people who had used MDMA more often lost more serotonin transporters than those who had used the drug...

Text

Still don't know the dosage.

They refer to "chronic use of MDMA" and "heavy MDMA users". Well no sh1t if you're a chronic or heavy user you're going to have negative side effects. DUH.

I'd like to see a non-biased study on usage of MDMA two to four times a year in a normal dose of 50mg - 125mg.

 

[BloodInTheStreets]

All of Dr. Ricaurte's test have been called into question, and the one claimed that E put holes in the brain of users has been recalled when it was discovered that the scientists administered Meth instead of Exctasy (by accident) to the lab monkeys being used in the tests at the dosage level required of E...You think when 20% of their test subjects drop dead they would have started questioning their tests. What excellent scientists!

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity3.shtml links at the bottom

 

[kami333]

Originally posted by: clamum

Originally posted by: IGBT
In people who had used MDMA, the PET images showed significant reductions in the number of serotonin transporters, the sites on neuron surfaces that reabsorb serotonin from the space between cells after it has completed its work. The lasting reduction of serotonin transporters occurred throughout the brain, and people who had used MDMA more often lost more serotonin transporters than those who had used the drug...

Text

Still don't know the dosage.

They refer to "chronic use of MDMA" and "heavy MDMA users". Well no sh1t if you're a chronic or heavy user you're going to have negative side effects. DUH.

I'd like to see a non-biased study on usage of MDMA two to four times a year in a normal dose of 50mg - 125mg.

lol, reminds me of a MSG study I was looking at last year, they were feeding the rats what would be equivalent to 5kg of MSG per day for a human.

 

[Tom]

"Thankfully I'm not like "just about every addict/drunk." I don't care who you compare me to... I'm human but can use things responsibly because I know a lot about what I choose to partake in."


You completely miss the point. EVERYBODY thinks they are not like "just about every addict/drunk" .

The people who end up screwed up thought about themselves exactly the way you think about yourself.

The only sure way to not end up an addict or drunk is to not start using in the first place. Use drugs or alcohol and part of the risk you are taking is you won't be able to control it.

 

[Sust]

Originally posted by: BloodInTheStreets
All of Dr. Ricaurte's test have been called into question, and the one claimed that E put holes in the brain of users has been recalled when it was discovered that the scientists administered Meth instead of Exctasy (by accident) to the lab monkeys being used in the tests at the dosage level required of E...You think when 20% of their test subjects drop dead they would have started questioning their tests. What excellent scientists!

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_neurotoxicity3.shtml links at the bottom

Damn, beat me to it
Yeh there was a pretty big scandal in the world of mental health research regarding the JHU peeps.
Hate it when people screw up or lie like that.
Addiction itself is pretty interesting. We all have built in biomolecular mechanisms for it in our brains.
Now how much genetics and individual variation plays into the equation is anyone's guess.
I think the current Scientific American has a writeup on addiction by a favorite of mine, Eric Nestler.
I will post a link to it if I get the chance.
It's interesting to think about his model of addiction though.
If we "treat" the addiction neuronally, will it take away any part of our motivation? our intrinsic human curiosity?
What a fascinating time to be alive...

Oh, and sorry to hear about your friend.
Drug usage good or bad?
Currently irrelevant in my opinion.
First, we dont fully understand the brain yet, and second we can get "addicted" to anything(everquest).
We need to focus more on treatment and underlying neuronal causality.
Maybe once we have all the facts, people can individually decide whether they want to fiddle with their delicately balanced neurochemistry.

 

[clamum]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"Thankfully I'm not like "just about every addict/drunk." I don't care who you compare me to... I'm human but can use things responsibly because I know a lot about what I choose to partake in."


You completely miss the point. EVERYBODY thinks they are not like "just about every addict/drunk" .

The people who end up screwed up thought about themselves exactly the way you think about yourself.

The only sure way to not end up an addict or drunk is to not start using in the first place. Use drugs or alcohol and part of the risk you are taking is you won't be able to control it.

There's plenty of people that can use drugs responsibly and not have them control their life. Then again, there's plenty who can't. I fall into the former category.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Updated: charged with 8 counts of attempted first degree murder.

He went into emergency surgery last night because the ammo the SWAT team used was the exploding (not the right word) kind - it tore up his bladder, intestines, and he had a massive infection.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Updated: charged with 8 counts of attempted first degree murder.

He went into emergency surgery last night because the ammo the SWAT team used was the exploding (not the right word) kind - it tore up his bladder, intestines, and he had a massive infection.

Frangible.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Updated: charged with 8 counts of attempted first degree murder.

He went into emergency surgery last night because the ammo the SWAT team used was the exploding (not the right word) kind - it tore up his bladder, intestines, and he had a massive infection.

Wow. That seems like pretty ambitious charging, given that he was apparently high at the time of the shootings. Even voluntary intoxication is a defense to the deliberation and premeditation required to prove first-degree murder, and I can't see any basis for a felony murder charge under these facts. I would call this some flavor of aggravated assault, or perhaps attempted second-degree murder. I bet he ends up pleading to something less, but the prosecutors are still going to make him pay a heavy price for shooting at a bunch of cops.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Updated: charged with 8 counts of attempted first degree murder.

He went into emergency surgery last night because the ammo the SWAT team used was the exploding (not the right word) kind - it tore up his bladder, intestines, and he had a massive infection.

Wow. That seems like pretty ambitious charging, given that he was apparently high at the time of the shootings. Even voluntary intoxication is a defense to the deliberation and premeditation required to prove first-degree murder, and I can't see any basis for a felony murder charge under these facts. I would call this some flavor of aggravated assault, or perhaps attempted second-degree murder. I bet he ends up pleading to something less, but the prosecutors are still going to make him pay a heavy price for shooting at a bunch of cops.

Ambitious - yea I think so too. My boss has been kind of mum about it today but his wife is still convinced he never fired a gun at police. I have no idea what's going on and it's probably none of my business - it's his family (well half family - he was adopted and that's his birth parent's son, so his half brother) I know they took samples of his blood to test for the X so maybe you're right about the lesser charges.

Our graphics/web guy is making a support website for him coming very soon. It'll probably have more info on that than what I currently know.

Steve - thanks

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: RagingBITCH

Ambitious - yea I think so too. My boss has been kind of mum about it today but his wife is still convinced he never fired a gun at police. I have no idea what's going on and it's probably none of my business - it's his family (well half family - he was adopted and that's his birth parent's son, so his half brother) I know they took samples of his blood to test for the X so maybe you're right about the lesser charges.

Our graphics/web guy is making a support website for him coming very soon. It'll probably have more info on that than what I currently know.

Steve - thanks

Yeah, it will be interesting to see how this turns out. If they intend to charge him with attempted murder, they will have to show that he fired in at least the general direction of the cops, and obviously that is a direct function of whatever forensic evidence they have. As I said, I would be surprised to see him actually convicted of attempted first-degree murder, but he will almost certainly end up spending a long time in the School of Locks. Angola is known to be one of the toughest prisons in the United States - the conditions there are really pretty terrible and third-world. He is in a VERY bad position, and I suggest he and his family will be well-served by finding the best lawyer they can afford. This promises to be lengthy and costly litigation, unfortunately.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Update: Cliffnotes: Update: his brother turned out was shot in the back. State trooper report partially released today supports the family's case that the kid never shot at the cops and the cops unjustly shot him in the back when he had no weapon in his hands. Family is well connected and the cops are sweating it b/c the pressure got turned up on them 100x.

 

[kenshorin]

Moral of the story... if you are a cop and want to shoot a perp, get them to turn around and face you first.