Borderlands 2 GPU/CPU benchmarks [TechSpot/HardOCP/Others]

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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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you realize that the graphics card have nothing to do with physx high if it's an AMD card don't you?

and we have another user with an i7 (8 threads) claiming 10fps with physx at high...
so?

I know that the CPU handles PhysX with Radeons. What I am saying is for you personally, you are GPU and CPU limited to begin with. So using your system as an indication that a modern system can't really handle PhysX and has massive dips below 60 fps is not a good starting point to begin with. Your GPU itself would dip below 60 fps average even without PhysX in places with a lot of enemies on the screen.

However, as soon as wand3r3r confirms, it looks like not even Core i7 6-core + GTX690 can manage to keep the game > 30 fps in places with PhysX High, which defeats the entire argument behind the people who keep saying that we NEED to go out and buy an NV GPU for PhysX, but it appears even 2 faster NV GPUs still can't maintain > 60 fps in this game in areas with heavy PhysX use.

How come only wand3r3r is admitting that even GTX690 card goes < 30 fps and everyone else who is pushing NV omitted this information as if this doesn't occur on their NV systems?
 
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Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,438
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So hold on, do we have a situation where an honest person posted i7 980 @4.2 GHz + GTX690 and the game still tanks to 15, 26, 36 fps in places on a $1000 GPU setup with PhysX High and yet some people keep claiming Radeon users need to go out now and buy a slave NV card, but even that might not fix it? So now we just went from PhysX is 'unplayable' via CPU to PhysX High is "unplayable" overall if you require > 60 fps minimums?


My dual 680s do not do this at all.

I predict you to ignore this and say that I am not "an honest person".

You use far to many weasel worded arguments to take you seriously.

The person who gives you a tiny hand hold is "an honest person" for example. Why exactly are you trying to prop up a single anecdote?
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,066
418
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I know that the CPU handles PhysX with Radeons. What I am saying is for you personally, you are GPU and CPU limited to begin with. So using your system as an indication that a modern system can't really handle PhysX and has massive dips below 60 fps is not a good starting point to begin with. Your GPU itself would dip below 60 fps average even without PhysX in places with a lot of enemies on the screen.

with physx low I'm GPU limited (most of the time, with these settings at 1280x1024), with physx high I'm 100% CPU limited when there is any kind of action going on,
and the difference is huge, with the exact same settings it will go from 40-50 to... 10-20... just because of physx high, that's more than clear enough, so the GPU is irrelevant at this point, the video shows clearly that the i3 2100 cannot handle Physx on high (and even on medium GPU usage and framreate goes down significantly)

a faster Radeon will not improve performance under this condition, a faster CPU might improve, but judging by the coments of other people not by much (it's poorly optimized code for CPUs)

to make it clear even my 5750 is "bottlenecked" by the CPU with physx on high, the slow GPU is not the problem at the right and center video here, only at the left video,
a faster VGA would make things look even worse for physx high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWjOgWnt5W8#t=3m15s
 

Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
1,409
65
91
Ferzep, any chance you can run a single GTX 680 and provide a rough estimate of your framerates?
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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My dual 680s do not do this at all.

So you are suggesting wand3r3 has problems with his system then? You are saying his system is an anomaly then and yours is the one we should trust and is representative of GTX680 SLI? Are you going on record that not even once in this game do GTX680s drop to 25-36 fps in the game in an area with PhysX High? What happens when another NV owner confirms wand3r3r's findings?

At least he posted actual real world data to back up his claims. What did you post exactly? A video, screenshots?

When the familiar NV users rarely discuss driver problems or issues (and create this cloud that NV drivers and performance are nearly perfect over 5-10 years of being on this forum), over time you start to look to new members for information to see if we are hearing the truth. Why is that? Because honest users with AMD/NV cards talk about driver issues and performance problems. Since some of us have had plenty of NV cards, and experienced driver problems and SLI scaling issues over the years, we know who is spreading the BS.

For example Grooveriding said many times that SLI scaling didn't work on his 680s in GW2 and yet not many NV users voluntarily disclosed this info. Imagine if Grooveriding didn't speak up on our forum, GW2 SLI scaling would have been assumed to have been perfect all this time.....god forbid someone says SLI scaling doesn't work even after 2-3 driver updates. :rolleyes:

Also, I already linked a 7970 tanking from 60 fps to 26 fps, which I wouldn't do if I was "AMD-biased" and had some anti-NV agenda since that actually shows that NV cards are superior. I am not trying to hide anything at all since I actually showed a real world performance hit by running PhysX High on a CPU. Now what you are saying is GTX680s run this game perfectly, with no drops at all like wand3r3r has showed.

So now you expect us to believe you and not him? He provided factual data. We need as much data as possible which is what this thread is about but so far you provided no data of any kind actually. Gamers who posted screenshots and videos to help us understand the interaction between PhysX High on the CPU and GPU at least provided something. All you are doing is criticizing and pointing fingers and trying to come up with a hidden agenda for gamers who are actually trying to figure out playable settings and impact on performance with certain in-game features.

And all those people who said if you just go out and buy an NV GPU for this game, then you'll have a perfectly smooth (i.e., > 60 fps minimum) gaming experience with PhysX High. That doesn't sound like a sure thing now as PhysX High appears to even drop performance of NV's flagship GPUs to sub-30 fps in places. Would it be accurate to conclude then that not even a single GTX680 with PhysX High at 1080P can ensure > 45 min at all times in the game?
 
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railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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So hold on, do we have a situation where an honest person posted i7 980 @4.2 GHz + GTX690 and the game still tanks to 15, 26, 36 fps in places on a $1000 GPU setup with PhysX High and yet some people keep claiming Radeon users need to go out now and buy a slave NV card, but even that might not fix it? So now we just went from PhysX is 'unplayable' via CPU to PhysX High is "unplayable" overall if you require > 60 fps minimums?

/facepalm

Holy Christ, are you serious? Considering I'm the only active Hybrid PhysX user thus far, I didn't forget you Lava ;), who is advocating running out to buy a GeForce card? Show me a single person, please.

If you are going to make such bold face lie statements then just stop. No one here said anything about > 60 FPS minimums. Since you've even bothered to respond to me I told you, check this out, GAMEPLAY (actual gameplay, not someone standing and shooting walls) is more demanding, and factor in Multiplayer (which is even more intense) the PhysX effects can crush a system.

Hell, I even said my system gets to the ~40 FPS and I'm offloading to a GTX 460. Glad someone else posted pictures so you can finally understand what someone who HAS been playing the game has been saying.

Why do I bother, you'll turn this around, lie some more, and then claim something.

This whole issue is just one big facepalm. You still don't accept things even though now multiple users are demonstrating it. Why bother.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Im sorry but if GTX690 gets 15 fps then i dont know what to say other than dont use PhysX at high.

3dgVc.jpg

^This.

If 2xGK104 can't manage it then PhysX in this game is too demanding to run on current hardware. I wonder if OpenCL or Direct Compute is better?
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Summary of thread: :rolleyes:

BTW physx high definitely takes a toll even on high end systems with nvidia cards during certain combat scenes. It can still dip below 60 fps and will do so consistently in some areas with physx set to high. Granted, I play at 2560x1600 but it is noticeable when you drop from 120 fps to 35. I'm not saying Radeons will do any better with CPU phsyx, in fact i'm quite sure they will be dramatically worse with CPU phsyx. What I am saying is the bickering in this thread is ridiculous.
 
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Makaveli

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2002
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you could pick up a used 460 for cheap these days. it would make for a great hybrid system. There is plenty of help out there for getting the AMD + nvidia physx GPU to work fine. This combo works out with great success. Overall i think it would be pretty cheap to drop in a used nvidia card.

But the other option is great to. sell your GPU and buy a gtx670. The performance upgrade will be there all the time and this would benefit all the time, not just a physx improvement. This is up to you.

I cant wait to pick this game up when i get some time off work. Sounds fantastic.

i've been following the thread investigating performance and will wait for more feedback as the game is still very new. A couple driver updates on either side could change performance in a month or two.

A used 460 that may be out due to it producing too much heat. Right now I have my eyes on this

EVGA GeForce GTX 650 Superclocked 1024MB GDDR5
1202 MHz Core Clock, 5000MHz Memory - $140
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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/facepalm

Holy Christ, are you serious? Considering I'm the only active Hybrid PhysX user thus far, I didn't forget you Lava ;), who is advocating running out to buy a GeForce card? Show me a single person, please.

Did you read the OP?

Go back to the thread and re-read the entire topic again. If people believed some of the statements in this thread, sold their 7970 and got a 680, everything would be perfectly fine. You said so yourself. Need a reminder?

A 690 should be closer to 100fps

Avg ~120 FPS, minimum 59, everything maxed here.
670 FTW SLI

With a 690, you should be able to have max AA + Physx and still hit 60fps without an issue.

You can do that with a GTX 680.

Your last comment follows the other gentlemen as in agreement with them. What did you mean here that 60 fps happens just rarely? usually? at minimum? Based on the discussion you made it sound like 60 fps is a piece of cake even with Max AA + PhysX since you supported the other 2 statements made before you.

We just went from AMD cards tanking with PhysX High since the CPU cannot handle it "at all" and that you NEED is an NV GPU for PhysX (please read the entire thread many people including you insinuating an NV GPU fixes performance issues) to showing that even 2 high end NV cards cannot manage high-end minimums either throughout the entire game.

Then we are back to the video I posted which shows what gamers will experience with performance drops from 60 fps on a modern system. These drops in framerates will apply to both NV and AMD users since even NV cards will experience them (of course Radeons might be doing 10 fps at that point). That's not being biased, but sharing real world experience. You still considered that useless and missed the entire point I linked it. You kept complaining how your Radeon dropped to 30-43 fps in places but I showed you how even 26-27 fps feels smooth in this game, which means it's not as big of a deal as you made it to be!

Stop telling me I am lying when all I did was posted information on various combinations of hardware and showed real world example of how far frames can drop.

The way I look at it, this thread offered a lot of useful information:

1) BL2 tends to be very CPU and GPU limited (even without PhysX);
2) If you have a Phenom X4 / X6 CPU, and you have performance issues, you may need to wait for a patch or a BIOS fix or need a more modern 990FX chipset;
3) Even if you use an NV GPU dedicated to PhysX, it does not fully fix performance; This is because PhysX High can be demanding enough even on a single 680;
4) This game is more forgiving with frame rate drops below 60 fps than other more precise shooters;
5) You can run this game with PhysX High on a modern overclocked CPU, despite claims to the contrary, but it means performance drops below 30 fps at times.

If this thread didn't go to where it is now, people would think if you just get an NV card, you are going to have a perfectly smooth experience (like 60 fps no problem!!). And based on how you won't stop gushing about your GTX460 offloading PhysX, they would go out and waste $150 on a slave NV card only to find out it still doesn't help in demanding PhysX sections anyway where frame-rates tank well below 30 fps even with a 690!

My GF's GTX 680 tanks to at lowest 50 FPS in scenes where I'm getting crushed to 35 FPS.

What about in scenes where her GTX680 drops to 25-35 fps in this game? You didn't talk about it. Based on how you talked about it, it appears you implied that PhysX High is playable on a 680 and not playable on a 7970 + NV slave card. Even that is proving to be a stretch it seems.

So look where we ended up from "GTX680 can do 60 fps no problem" (first page, many people claiming this, including you) to "GTX690 dips to 15-25-36 fps at times".....in other words PhysX High is even 'unplayable' in certain sections of the game even with NV GPUs. Suddenly, we arrived at an entirely different conclusion: Not only can CPUs with PhysX High suffer from < 30 fps drops, but so can NV $500-1000 flagship setups. I find that to be useful information that wasn't present in the discussion until more people started sharing their experience.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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^This.

If 2xGK104 can't manage it then PhysX in this game is too demanding to run on current hardware.

Apparently it took almost 9 pages for this to come out into the open. Before, we were lead to believe that if you just buy an NV card and stop offloading PhysX High to the CPU, you are "just fine" in fact reaching 60 fps "no problem." Along the way, I was accused of being a fanboy, salesman pushing an agenda, slanted, biased, posting walls of useless text, etc. Now we are back to what I linked earlier since it's inevitable on NV or AMD setups - how this game actually feels even despite random dips to 30 - 35 fps - still fairly smooth imo. Certainly not a deal breaker to go out and waste $150 on a slave NV card for PhysX which won't fix it fully either.

It seems if you can't handle dips to 30-35 fps in this game, you can't use PhysX High period unless you have Tri-SLI 680s or maybe even Quad 690s. Interesting how far we've come from original claims that this game NEEDS an NV GPU for PhysX High, but if you get one, well your problems magically go away.


Summary of thread: :rolleyes:

BTW physx high definitely takes a toll even on high end systems with nvidia cards during certain combat scenes. It can still dip below 60 fps and will do so consistently in some areas with physx set to high. Granted, I play at 2560x1600 but it is noticeable when you drop from 120 fps to 35. I'm not saying Radeons will do any better with CPU phsyx, in fact i'm quite sure they will be dramatically worse with CPU phsyx. What I am saying is the bickering in this thread is ridiculous.

Thank you! The bickering was unnecessary if certain posters were honest and admitted right away that even a high-end GTX680 SLI setup dips to 35 fps in places rather than continuing to imply that this experience was strictly an outcome of CPU + PhysX High gaming settings. Really what we got out of this was that even if you spent $500-1000 on NV GPUs, you'll get better experience than Radeons, but you are going to need to live with 30-35 fps dips as well (but of course Radeons would be running at 10-15 fps in those sections).
 
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Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
1,409
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I was going to pick this game up ...but from the way things are sounding I'm wondering if I can even run the thing.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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Did you read the OP?

Yes, I did, and based on your lack of knowledge from the source of the OP, I can confidently say - you didn't.

Go back to the thread and re-read the entire topic again. If people believed some of the statements in this thread, sold their 7970 and got a 680, everything would be perfectly fine. You said so yourself. Need a reminder?

Where did that post I quoted responding to another poster say 60 FPS minium? Because, I never once said this game will run 60 or great ALL the time. It seems again you've gotten backed into a corner and are now trying to throw other's under the bus for your own mistake.

You can certainly max this game out with a single GTX 680 and normal in game settings. The PhysX implementation does get heavy and will cause dips on the card, however, from my experience I've never seen it dip to <30 FPS on her system. I do know another user who is running 1600p + 4xSGSSAA and GTX 580 SLI can't max out PhysX. Well, I guess we can blanket statement and assume that covers all users. Of course we should - you made the same generalization that Radeon + CPU > GeForce at PhysX [ignore the fact that if CPU > GeForce, why not offload GeForce to CPU too...hmmm].


Your last comment follows the other gentlemen as in agreement with them. What did you mean here that 60 fps happens just rarely? usually? at minimum? Based on the discussion you made it sound like 60 fps is a piece of cake even with Max AA + PhysX since you supported the other 2 statements made before you.

I made it seem 60 FPS were easily unattainable minimums? Oh really? Feel free to show me where I said that. It seems you've resorted to trying to pull a win by twisting comments around.

Here is the conversation since you didn't quote the proper person's in order (why would you, have to win - even if resorting to lying of course]

I haven't even got to level 3 yet, but the first few minutes haven't been amazing yet as far as physx goes. Maybe it'll start to show more when you start getting elemental weapons etc. There was a blanket in a doorway and I swiped it and broke it as I saw the blanket effects in the Physx demo. I haven't checked the framerate but the load on the GTX 690 isn't too high. It's smooth as butter and probably doesn't drop too low ever.

I'll try play it more on the weekend.

Can I force some additional settings from the Nvidia driver being the 690 isn't even fazed by the game? There was only one AA related setting in game that I noticed, I can't remember what it was called. Playing at 1980x1200...

With a 690, you should be able to have max AA + Physx and still hit 60fps without an issue.

You can do that with a GTX 680.

Go ahead and show who asked about minimums. Show me where I even hinted 60 FPS minimums. I agreed with the poster who answered the question in bold from the original poster. I never even responded to Johhny Chutz. You want to lie, by all means, however, don't expect to drag my name through the mud.

We just went from AMD cards tanking with PhysX High since the CPU cannot handle it "at all" and that you NEED is an NV GPU for PhysX (please read the entire thread many people including you insinuating an NV GPU fixes performance issues) to showing that even 2 high end NV cards cannot manage high-end minimums either throughout the entire game.

See my post, number #6 in this thread where I said something was fishy. I've been following this thread and all the linked material far closer than you. At this point you are choosing my wording selectively to make a point. Let me disqualify that for you <30 FPS is not acceptable to me after spending >$600 on my setup for PhysX, thus it is not "playable."

As for the bold: that statement is still true. Wand3r's setup got 15 FPS in that instance, what do you think someone running CPU PhysX would have? Think about it. You're going to argue that "25-30 FPS is acceptable" well in such low numbers, 15 FPS > I'd say...5, perhaps even lower. Person just tripled their performance in that rare odd ball situation. Gotcha, Radeon + Modern CPU can run PhysX on High, 30 FPS just shooting the wall is acceptable, forget about 10 (we've had another poster make the comment too) is also acceptable.

Then we are back to the video I posted which shows what gamers will experience with performance drops from 60 fps on a modern system. These drops in framerates will apply to both NV and AMD users since even NV cards will experience them (of course Radeons might be doing 10 fps at that point). That's not being biased, but sharing real world experience. You still considered that useless and missed the entire point I linked it. You kept complaining how your Radeon dropped to 30-43 fps in places but I showed you how even 26-27 fps feels smooth in this game, which means it's not as big of a deal as you made it to be!

30 FPS with the Radeon, try it with a GeForce. Go ahead. Give it a shot. 15 FPS with a GeForce, I promise you the Radeon will be lower, a lot lower, and all points that led to that 15 FPS point. If the GeForce had a time lime of 20, 20, 20, 15, 15, 20, the Radeon probably had 5, 5, 5, 2, 2, 5.

But that's acceptable, since you based your whole argument on a guy shooting the walls and then shooting the floor. Pristine logic at work.

Stop telling me I am lying when all I did was posted information on various combinations of hardware and showed real world example of how far frames can drop.

See above where I quoted the proper people. I never once responded to Johnny, that constitutes as a lie. See when you quote people out of order and then make a point based on the order you presented - guess what, you're lying.

How the thread happened:
Wander post #10 > Replied by Exark post #12 > Replied by Railven post #13 . Johnny is post #14.

RS's history of the post implies:
Johhny posted (#14), Exark replied (#12), Railven agreed (#13).

Funny...yep.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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...I was accused of being a fanboy, salesman pushing an agenda, slanted, biased, posting walls of useless text, etc. ...

The agenda I see in threads where you post is the one to discredit you personally since they either can't, or can't be bothered, to discredit what you are posting. It's turning into a witch hunt. All we're missing are the pitchforks and torches.

You can't win. If you post one benchmark you are cherry picking. If you post multiple benchmarks you are using "Shock and Awe" tactics. Heaven forbid you supply the information you used to draw your conclusion(s) and it be more than the one benchmark/sentence out of an entire review.
 

VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,188
2
76
The agenda I see in threads where you post is the one to discredit you personally since they either can't, or can't be bothered, to discredit what you are posting. It's turning into a witch hunt. All we're missing are the pitchforks and torches.

You can't win. If you post one benchmark you are cherry picking. If you post multiple benchmarks you are using "Shock and Awe" tactics. Heaven forbid you supply the information you used to draw your conclusion(s) and it be more than the one benchmark/sentence out of an entire review.

The hilarious thing is that when nvidia had the better price performance and he was championing the gtx670 everyone was parroting everything he said. Now that AMD has better price/performance and he's highlighting that people are real angry.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,219
54
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The hilarious thing is that when nvidia had the better price performance and he was championing the gtx670 everyone was parroting everything he said. Now that AMD has better price/performance and he's highlighting that people are real angry.

I think we all can see it's going far beyond that now VD. You want to point out price/performance then that is wonderful. That isn't what is happening in this thread anyway.
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,991
627
126
This game appears to have quite a few bugs and is causing slowdowns and lags regardless of video hardware. See here and here as examples.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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The agenda I see in threads where you post is the one to discredit you personally since they either can't, or can't be bothered, to discredit what you are posting. It's turning into a witch hunt. All we're missing are the pitchforks and torches.

You can't win. If you post one benchmark you are cherry picking. If you post multiple benchmarks you are using "Shock and Awe" tactics. Heaven forbid you supply the information you used to draw your conclusion(s) and it be more than the one benchmark/sentence out of an entire review.

Wow, how does this get posted - it's like you didn't even read the thread, at all.

Please, read the thread - from the start if you have to, and grasp what just happened. Funny you turn this into a them versus him, since I was a player in this thread and I support AMD. Never once did I call him bias nor insinuate he was pushing an agenda.

So I guess you assume RS is correct, even though he acknowledged his mistake? Good to know you rather take a side then read for yourself what is at hand.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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I think we all can see it's going far beyond that now VD. You want to point out price/performance then that is wonderful. That isn't what is happening in this thread anyway.

Don't make general innuendos. Tell us what you can see going on. What's happening in this thread.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Wow, how does this get posted - it's like you didn't even read the thread, at all.

Please, read the thread - from the start if you have to, and grasp what just happened. Funny you turn this into a them versus him, since I was a player in this thread and I support AMD. Never once did I call him bias nor insinuate he was pushing an agenda.

So I guess you assume RS is correct, even though he acknowledged his mistake? Good to know you rather take a side then read for yourself what is at hand.

I've read it. I also never called you out. Don't take it personally, if you didn't do anything.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
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Ironically, you said that to another poster. Perhaps take your own advice.

General blanket statements condemn everyone involved.

I'll say it again. Nothing was directed personally at you. While you disagreed with RS you also pointed out in his posts where you disagreed. You didn't just throw out veiled accusations, or dismissive one liners.

The point of my post to RS was to let him know that there are people who see the context of his posts. It's not just being attributed to him being some sort of fanboi by everyone.
 

KingFatty

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2010
3,034
1
81
Wow, how does this get posted - it's like you didn't even read the thread, at all.

Please, read the thread - from the start if you have to, and grasp what just happened. Funny you turn this into a them versus him, since I was a player in this thread and I support AMD. Never once did I call him bias nor insinuate he was pushing an agenda.

So I guess you assume RS is correct, even though he acknowledged his mistake? Good to know you rather take a side then read for yourself what is at hand.

Just to offer another viewpoint, I highlighted the portion above that I would consider providing facts and moving the discussion forward.

The rest, it seems to me, I'm not sure how to classify it, but it seems like it's not providing facts or moving things forward?

Also, I noticed some people using the phrase "wall of text" like it's a derogatory statement, but I don't understand why? If there is factual information presented, even if it's a lot of text, it can be treated on its merits. But just attacking a person, going after his character, well, that seems like the tactic that someone relies on when they want to vent or get emotional, or perhaps aren't equipped to deal with the underlying facts.

I'm interested in this thread because there are some curious situations, like how the chipset on a motherboard can affect results so dramatically. Is that unprecedented? How in the world should my chipset matter for FPS, it just seems fishy there and maybe there is something more going on with the game.

Now for speculation: maybe there is something about how the PhysX is being implemented, maybe it's like how tesselation was used in Crysis where hidden water was using tesselation resources, except now that there is roughly parity between video card brands for tesselation, now we can turn to PhysX implementation to further distance performance between the two brands? I mean, I wouldn't think this if not for the weird issues that seem to be unexplained, like whether or not a monster card like a GTX690 can excel in this game. Perhaps it will be resolved with some patches etc.